What does this mean capability wise? What can it do with the DLSS that it couldn't have done before?
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I'm trying to get caught up.
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[Bloomberg] Nintendo to Use New Nvidia Graphics Chip in 2021 Switch Upgrade (DLSS) [Analysts saying $350-399 MSRP]
- Thread starter ggx2ac
- Start date
DLSS is basically a form of upscaling to a higher resolution that is very nearly just as good as rendering at that target resolution but with a fraction of the processing resources. That means two things:
1) Switch pro games can use DLSS to take a 720p/900p/1080p image and upscale it to 4k to make it look much, much closer to true 4k
2) Switch pro games can use the GPU to focus on taxing graphical effects and post-processing rather than rendering at a high resolution (say, 1080p) and then use DLSS to simply upscale it to 4k anyway.
So can like Xbox one games be ported to it? Its not good enough for current gen right?
I still expect raw horsepower to be similar to the GT 1030 before DLSS. so think this, but at better IQ
I'll wait to see the performance before deciding if I want one or not. Definitely easier to stomach $350 than $400.
It should be able to get XB1 games even without considering DLSS. Hell, the base Switch got a number of XB1/PS4 games.
But the spec increase we're hearing about means the GPU should be about as powerful as the XB1S before DLSS. Which means we could get IQ on the level of PS4 Pro/XB1X.
As for current gen, it depends entirely on A) how much of a CPU increase we're really getting here (it might be up to 9x if they go 8 cores) and B) how many current gen games really utilize SSD speeds that strictly.
The OP says games will have to be patched for DLSS. Extra processing power should boost some older games without locked resolutions.
Damn. Awesome. The DLSS will only work for docked? or both docked and handheld. I'm going to have to upgrade if it can do that on a handheld.
Depends on the engine and how well it punches.
Considering how much the forza engine flexes it more of a question if the game has DLSS. It could do cyberpunk if you weren't outright aiming for 4k. That's pretty damn high especially for a handheld. A lot of devs will be happy if they get time to scale down or tune things.
The biggest con has been stated is that some engines that aren't friendly towards it will have to change, but general upgrades especially for nintendo to entertain 4k with dlss says the system will have a decent bump. As explain before you cannot use dlss from 240p or 480p let alone 720p to get a good 4k like image.
DLSS is implemented in the same way as AA, specifically TAA. So it needs to be patched specifically for each game. Some that already utilize TAA will need very little work to be updated, others which do not support TAA will require much more work.
We don't know for sure but there's no real reason to think DLSS won't work in handheld mode. Obviously the resolution will be capped at 720p though since it's a 720p screen.
Damn..that would be a game changer. I already got a switch, but will definitely get the new one for myself and give the old one to my daughter to play animal crossing lol
NateDrake have you heard anything about the DLSS being only a docked feature? Any idea why that might be?
I've only heard docked. Can't dismiss portable DLSS. But it isn't something I have any clear confirmation or dismissal of.
Always possible that they launch with a premium model and then replace the OG and Lite models a little later.
As others have said, it takes work to implement. So only expect upgrades when someone wants to essentially re-launch a game, for example if Nintendo decides to make a hoopla about Xenoblade 2 Enhanced Edition or whatever. Which, honestly, would probably be a good idea for them to do.
Wouldn't a portable DLSS take a huge toll on the battery life? Plus, if the screen is only 720p, would it even be worth it?
Thank you for the clarification. Looking into the testing it wouldn't make any sense for handheld to not use DLSS. I am looking at a power consumption test that igorslab.de did and they had clear power savings by using DLSS (even more using a frame limiter):
I really hope Nintenso updates its evergreen titles to support it.
Smash, Mario Kart, BOTW, Animal Crossing ,Odyssey to name just a few.
Smash, Mario Kart, BOTW, Animal Crossing ,Odyssey to name just a few.
Using DLSS to scale a 480p image to 720p would probably use less battery than rendering at 720p natively.
If they enable DLSS in handheld mode then they'll likely only allow it when GPU clocks are correspondingly lowered.
No cause it's more effecient than maxwell.
People judging ampere as bad are tending to max the power draw its, pretty garbage after 250watts, before it like rdna 2 they stomp on their predcesors. Nintendo isn't increasing screen resolution either.
There's very little testing in that specific area as well. It undervolts well and as long as it stays cool you get decent clocks. I cap my 3080 quite a bit for some titles, they don't use much cpu or gpu it's amazing what it does vs my 970. I'd be eyeballing how apex or even COD performs when it shows up. My older spec pc couldn't chew them up like valorant or fortnite. Playing diablo 3 will be a decent boost and better than older pcs I made, which is quite the leap from switch not competing with duo core intel on a 4850 to it being able to shame any i5 I built.
Switch can't main 720p in it's current form on some titles and devs have to do more work to port down. This would ensure that minimum is hit more often or almost 100% with devs needing less work in downscaling. It's odd hearing nintendo is going to be this generous it's unseen if we are talking about any of their 3d consoles to date in any form.
This just seems like a given to me. Especially given how easy (relatively speaking) it is to get DLSS 2.0/1 up and running in a game.
A big part of the marketing for the Pro would presumably revolve around BotW, Smash, MK8D, Odyssey, and others being playable in 4K and/or 60 FPS.
It would just seem really odd for Nintendo to release this beast of a machine....and then not provide updates for some of its best selling games to actually take advantage of the hardware.
It would be in a lot of devs/publisher's interest if it meant increased exposure for their games. I've said in a previous thread, but Nintendo would be wise to update and revamp the eShop and include a new section for Switch Pro Enhanced titles. It would be a great way for 3rd parties to get fresh eyes on their games when the only opportunity they have right now is by running discounts. Obviously there will be other larger cost/benefit analysis to patch said games, whether it's to make use of the increased horsepower or to add in DLSS support, but that kind of "free" advertising and enhanced exposure is not insignificant in the least.
And it's in Nintendo's interest to make it a viable and worthwhile investment. They want all the support they can get as more software, especially software that utilizes their new hardware, helps to push more units and get people to adopt the new version faster. No company looks to deter demand even if they know they won't be able to meet it in the first place.
FFS....
I've just a bought anew Switch last year! Just convinced my sister to not buy another Switch (she only has the handheld) and save up for this upgrade instead. I know this is all rumors and such.. but this sounds pretty realistic imo.
I've just a bought anew Switch last year! Just convinced my sister to not buy another Switch (she only has the handheld) and save up for this upgrade instead. I know this is all rumors and such.. but this sounds pretty realistic imo.
Concerning DLSS in portable mode.. do we have any indication of how power draw scales when using DLSS and without DLSS on PC? Might give an indication of whether it'd be realistic in portable mode.
Also, is this 2.0? It shouldn't take much to run a Switch game at 4k, but with DLSS, that will pretty much promise that performance won't be an issue if it's used in all titles.
Also, is this 2.0? It shouldn't take much to run a Switch game at 4k, but with DLSS, that will pretty much promise that performance won't be an issue if it's used in all titles.
DLSS shares some basic setup with TAA but it's not free to implement if you have TAA (leaving aside that patching a game is never "free" to begin with) because:
- You still need more changes to adapt for it on top
- DLSS is not a complete replacement of TAA and depending on your game's needs you might need more work to compensate
It's still much easier than retro-fitting it in a game that doesn't have TAA at all but it's certainly not trivial.
While that might reduce power draw, it doesn't mean you'll get a good picture out of it and Nintendo might decide the trade off might not be worth.
DLSS doesn't work nearly as well at really low starting resolutions because there's a lot more missing informations, so it has to guess something reasonable a lot more vs. figuring out how to accumulate the correct information that lies somewhere in the history.
This post hints at it.
I've already left my thoughts on why it would be dumb to gimp a feature that beneficial across the board. Nvidia would definitely want this to be smoother and nintendo is more willing to adjust kernel/sdk for them than the other makers.
From a handheld standpoint should the screen produce more accurate colors given the switch (heh) to OLED?
Could be limited or not available at the moment, similar to how only certain games were using boosted clocks in portable mode on the base Switch.
We know nothing at this moment. It could be 3.0 by the time we get there; or maybe some weird 2.5 Nintendo Bespoke DLSS implementation. (but I would argue that performance wise it should probably aim for 2.0 as a minimum ;P)
Like I said before, I do firmly believe that Nintendo wants BotW2 to be out this November to launch alongside the Switch Pro. Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl is probably meant to be an October launch, but could act as their understudy holiday game if BotW2 isn't ready for November.
A 2021 gaming handheld is not a phone, but it's also not a 2017 gaming handheld.
I have to think market forces will play a role here. Any game that chooses to forgo DLSS is just asking to look way worse than games that do, so unless it's a game where graphics don't matter it will hurt them.
Nintendo considers Game Boy Color the last model of Game Boy, so Link's Awakening DX. Very different situation than this, though.
They'd be making them now if anyone wanted to buy them, but almost nobody wants to spend on the 32GB ones available since launch.
Far less processing power, but the end difference for cross-gen games could be pretty small.
How good an idea this is depends a lot on how interested third parties are in releasing Pro exclusives. If even in 2022 and 2023 most new hardware sold can't run the new level of games and that in turn prevents major releases from being bothered with, it's a spiral of bad.
If you'd asked me a year ago, my guess for a Switch successor would've been: 2023 release, graphical capabilities similar to PS4 undocked and PS4 Pro docked, 8 GB RAM, 1080p screen with 1440p being a common target docked. This sounds better than that in some ways, worse than that in others, but also more than a year earlier.
I don't know if they'll patch the old ones, but I'm kind of hoping the next new Monolith game (be it Xeno or whatever other thing they've been doing) is an early showcase for this model.
I'm of the opposite mindset: If they're increasing portable resolution 0%, they better be using DLSS to improve image quality on the existing resolution.
If BOTW ever gets such a patch, I don't think it will right away. Rather, it will be used as the base from which they say "Look how much better BOTW2 looks with this new feature!"
While it is true that DLSS doesn't work as well with low starting resolutions, it is preferable to have a 480p image DLSS'ed to 720p rather than a 480p image, right?
nothing stopping them from just boosting the native resolution thanks to the improved processing power
very much so. DLSS also works as AA
I'm leaning towards no dlss in portable mode but with a possible dlss portable profile for games that need it, like botw, Witcher 3 and other demanding games all tap into a special higher clock mode on Switch portable
I also don't think the iq upscaling from a low res image in portable will be an issue as it will always only need to upscale to 720p. A demanding game could run at 480p and upscale to 720p. Will probably look great
I don't think we can answer this.
Usually games tend to use DLSS to go to 4k resolutions, and the few tests at very low resolutions I saw have shown significantly more artifacts.
This is because DLSS is very good at reconstructing history, not so much at guessing it.
This is something that Nintendo and Nvidia are surely testing and will decide based on the outcome.
It might also be that it doesn't provide any significant power saving and the trade off power saving vs. image quality degradation is not worth it.
Thank you for the clarification. Looking into the testing it wouldn't make any sense for handheld to not use DLSS. I am looking at a power consumption test that igorslab.de did and they had clear power savings by using DLSS (even more using a frame limiter):
That's very promising.
So we have many options:
1. The new system is actually Switch 2 and not a revision, since no trace a new system NOT using Mariko (this new system will need a new GPU)
2. Nintendo will continue to work on Mariko for a posssible revision and the Bloomberg report is "innacurated".
3. Aula is gonna be dropped, or never was meant for commercial purposes.
4. The new system is compatible with Mariko, but hasn't been included in firmwares yet.
it's a plug and play solution.
"does your engine support TAA?"
"yes"
"then 90% of the work is already done"
Until we have more progress in battery technology don't expect 1080p resolution for gaming handhelds. Most high end phones don't even go for that resolution with gaming because of this.