• The GiftBot 2.0 Launch Giveaway Extravaganza has come to a close with an astounding 8073 games given away to the community by 696 members, a huge success thanks to you! The gifting now continues with more official prizes in the new Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Leftover Steam codes are also being given away to the PC Gaming Era community.

Bloomberg: Star Wars is Struggling to Win Over the Next Generation of Kids

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
13,430
Yep.

Which is why it’s always frustrating to hear people levy the typical blockbuster complaints about them just being dumb action films towards them.

These movies wouldn’t be what they are if audiences didn’t give a fuck about the characters.
Agreed. The Portals scene in Endgame doesn't work unless the audience has spent the last 10 years watching the last 20 movies.
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,993
Ann Arbor, MI
They lost the engagment of the old fans by mishandling and wasting the old characters while kicking off the new trilogy with the most uninteresting and corporate by-the-numbers soft reboot ever, they failed to establish compelling new characters and an intriguing new story arc and younger generations won't care, the movies themselves are barely mediocre at best and i doubt people will remember them in the future.
The idea that they "mishandled" Luke will never not be laughable to me. Luke in TLJ was 100% true to the character of the OT. The idea of Luke as some sort of badass super hero or Goku was nonsense cooked up by the expanded media side of things.
 

Nappuccino

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,022
The prequels, even though they sucked, are better than the new movies. They at least “feel” like Star Wars

I also put Solo in the prequel camp, btw.
None of the prequels feel like Star Wars, and the Force Awakens biggest criticism is that it tries too hard to feel like Star Wars without doing a whole that's new.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
Marvel is simply the most immediate comparison, and the same company owns both brands. Like Marvel, Lucasfilm attempted to go beyond a mere movie series and attempted create some kind of cinematic universe. But unlike Marvel they failed and are now in the middle of reassessing things.
So did Star Wars also "fail" when Transformers and the 80s craze of action figure toy lines took off and became more popular?

Or how about when Harry Potter thrashed the prequel movies?

Or when Sam Raimi's Spider-Man chewed up and spit out Attack of the Clones?

Star Wars has had plenty of ebbs and flows during its 40 years, it has not been the no.1 brand wall to wall and is somehow now only being displaced by the MCU.

That's pure revisionist history. E.T. dominated the Star Wars sequels (ESB and ROTJ) for that matter in the early 80s to boot.
 

N.Domixis

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
6,920
Time to add the star wards universe into the MCU. I wouldn't even mind. Luke Skywalker and Spider Man vs multiverse Darth Maul? Day one.
 

Alienhated

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,044
The idea that they "mishandled" Luke will never not be laughable to me. Luke in TLJ was 100% true to the character of the OT. The idea of Luke as some sort of badass super hero or Goku was nonsense cooked up by the expanded media side of things.
I'm not talking about Luke specifically, but about the old characters in general and the story of the new trilogy as a whole.
I can't help but think that they could've done infinitely more interesting things with Han Solo, Luke and Leila, but that's what happens when your first movie needs to be an overly safe rehash that erases every accomplishment reached in the original movies and resets the state of the entire universe in the most boring and unimaginative way possible.
 

Smelck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
665
Rotorua, NZ
The idea that they "mishandled" Luke will never not be laughable to me. Luke in TLJ was 100% true to the character of the OT. The idea of Luke as some sort of badass super hero or Goku was nonsense cooked up by the expanded media side of things.
And this is why people are polar opposite....the fact that you find this opinion laughable...is laughable to me and lots of other fans. But we have been down this road.....and there is no common ground :-)
 
Dec 9, 2017
855
I can't believe that anyone thinks the prequels are better films. More enjoyable in people's personal opinion? Sure that's fair. But the sequel trilogy has so far been better shot, acted and mostly written than the prequel trilogy. I guess people like over the top fights enough to disregard complete lack of chemistry or acting enthusiasm from a lot of the actors.
 

Joeytj

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,490
Both the prequels and originals had compelling characters in new, wholly original settings. The latter is missing in the sequels
The only compelling prequel character was Palpatine and that was largely on McDiarmid chewing the scenery.
I have to agree with both of you on this...

Mekanos is right that the movie every Star Wars prequels fan always quotes is only ROTS, and it's mostly just cheesy Palpatine and Anakin quotes. Nobody really quotes Jar Jar in a good way (well, maybe some) or anything Anakin says in TPM or AOTC.

But I get what a lot of sequel detractors are trying to say when they talk about compelling characters. And I suspect that it's what Lucas didn't like a lot about TFA. It's what I didn't like about TFA, and I say that as a staunch sequel trilogy defender. It's all the crazy and really "bold" aspects of the story, settings, and designs the prequels introduced. Whatever the flaws the movie had, it expanded the universe in huge ways that the sequel trilogy hasn't done yet, and a lot of Star Wars fans stuck around the franchise after the prequels in large part because of that.
 

Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,697
The fact that all the newer movies are so deeply tied to the past means your main market is your old one and their kids.
 

Biggersmaller

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,925
Minneapolis
The young Star Wars fans of the mid 80s through 1997 laugh at this story. That shit was only for the most nerdy for a good decade. Kids may be into Star Wars more now than in the last 30 years.

They just aren’t into it as much as Disney wants.
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,725
Star Wars has been too backwards facing and nostalgia pandering. This is fine for the old fans, but if they want to continue it really needs to go beyond Jedi's and the evil empire. They have a whole universe to play around with.

Whether that catches on with kids is another story.
 

SuperBanana

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,700
It's because they created god awful characters that aren't iconic. No kid is going "I wanna be Fin!" or "I wanna be Snoke!". The originals had Luke, Han, Leia, and Darth Vader who kids all pretended to be and found really cool and interesting because they had such strong character traits. The prequels didn't have iconic characters but it did have a shit ton of cool ships, creatures, and designs. The new movies just have blue x-wings, red tie-fighters, the Falcon, and bigger versions of something you saw 40 years ago. The designs are no where near as interesting. Plus the games have been mostly a total dud. There's not much for kids to be drawn into.

Kids want a world they can fantasize and imagine being it and the new movies lack imagination.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,672
It's because they created god awful characters that aren't iconic. No kid is going "I wanna be Fin!" or "I wanna be Snoke!". The originals had Luke, Han, Leia, and Darth Vader who kids all pretended to be and found really cool and interesting because they had such strong character traits. The prequels didn't have iconic characters but it did have a shit ton of cool ships, creatures, and designs. The new movies just have blue x-wings, red tie-fighters, the Falcon, and bigger versions of something you saw 40 years ago. The designs are no where near as interesting. Plus the games have been mostly a total dud. There's not much for kids to be drawn into.
I'd say Rey is at least somewhat popular, based on what I saw at Galaxy's Edge.

Every other ST character though, yeah, not really seeing any response...
 

spootime

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,433
Yep.

Which is why it’s always frustrating to hear people levy the typical blockbuster complaints about them just being dumb action films towards them.

These movies wouldn’t be what they are if audiences didn’t give a fuck about the characters.
This is why I don't buy the "goku Luke" criticism that people like to use. You can have cool things happen in your action scifi movie AND build compelling character arcs. Marvel has made that abundantly clear.
 

jdmc13

Member
Mar 14, 2019
173
This might be controversial, but before Episode VII, they probably should have remastered and re-released the theatrical cuts of the original trilogy into theaters. I think the problem is, especially in the marketing, they are relying too heavily on the old characters. Marvel didn't start with the Avengers; they started with Iron Man. You won't enjoy going into Episode VII blind as much as you would if you had seen Episodes IV-VI. Disney assumed people were introducing their kids to Star Wars. Hell, you can see it in the commercial for Galaxy's Edge they air all the time. The problem is that people didn't introduce their kids to Star Wars.
 

RyanW

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
4,867
The fact that all the newer movies are so deeply tied to the past means your main market is your old one and their kids.
But how is that any different than the MCU then? A lot of the kids the article is referring to were probably not born 11 years ago for when the MCU started. Not to mention there's 23 films. That's a lot and it's only getting bigger so I don't think it's because of that.
 

SuperBanana

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,700
Rey was without question the most cosplayed character at this years Star Wars Celebration. So I am not sure how you can claim this.
I'd say Rey is at least somewhat popular, based on what I saw at Galaxy's Edge.

Every other ST character though, yeah, not really seeing any response...
Rey is like the only character you can label as iconic in any way and even then she's kinda Luke 2.0. They completely fucked up Poe, Fin, Snoke, Ren. Hey kids, wanna pretend you're that guy who constantly tries to flee from his problems and fails the one mission he goes on? What about the villain who smashes his helmet up and yells a lot? Or the super villain dressed in a gold robe and dies right away? Yeah, nah.
 

Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,697
But how is that any different than the MCU then? A lot of the kids the article is referring to were probably not born 11 years ago for when the MCU started. Not to mention there's 23 films. That's a lot and it's only getting bigger so I don't think it's because of that.
Eh, there’s a pretty large difference between the 80s and the early 10s
 
Oct 2, 2018
2,603
too much competition in the market and tbh, the new cast ain't great and the movies aren't amazing either.

good enough is enough.

and SOLO sucked.
 

spootime

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,433
But how is that any different than the MCU then? A lot of the kids the article is referring to were probably not born 11 years ago for when the MCU started. Not to mention there's 23 films. That's a lot and it's only getting bigger so I don't think it's because of that.
You could go into endgame without even knowing that Marvel movies existed and have a ton of fun. You wouldn't know what the hell was happening but it would still be a great time. At the end of the day Marvel just makes really fun movies.
 

RyanW

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
4,867
Rey is like the only character you can label as iconic in any way and even then she's kinda Luke 2.0. They completely fucked up Poe, Fin, Snoke, Ren. Hey kids, wanna pretend you're that guy who constantly tries to flee from his problems and fails the one mission he goes on? Yeah, nah.
In a time where one can buy either a Darth Vader costume or Kylo Ren costume at Walmart for their kids at Halloween, I saw more Kylo Ren's walking around trick or treating.
 

Kitsunelaine

My favorite cake is pie
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,114
"But that doesn’t square with the success of Marvel, which reliably churns out a blockbuster every four to six months. "

Star Wars isn't Marvel. Marvel can flirt with different main genres, different main themes, different main aesthetics. Star Wars will always be sci-fi, will always have similar aesthetics.... The article writer is kind of reaching here.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,542
But how is that any different than the MCU then? A lot of the kids the article is referring to were probably not born 11 years ago for when the MCU started. Not to mention there's 23 films. That's a lot and it's only getting bigger so I don't think it's because of that.
Most of the MCU doesn’t require you to have a strong emotional investment in the previous movies, or even a strong familiarity with them. Chunks of TLJ and especially TFA are basically meaningless if you aren’t familiar with Star Wars and have a strong emotional connection to its characters and iconography.
 

Mobu

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,286
Its not grabbing kids because its a boring and super limited franchise

Every movie and show post Disney has just been underdogs rebels vs big evil black dressed guys

All of them
 

spootime

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,433
"But that doesn’t square with the success of Marvel, which reliably churns out a blockbuster every four to six months. "

Star Wars isn't Marvel. Marvel can flirt with different main genres, different main themes, different main aesthetics. Star Wars will always be sci-fi, will always have similar aesthetics.... The article writer is kind of reaching here.
This is a very good point but I still think they could have gotten away with 1 movie a year if TFA had put in the proper groundwork and laid out a universe you could actually tell stories in.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
I think the actual break down of non-gaming properties that were most popular with kids would probably actually look like this:

1977 - Star Wars
1978 - Star Wars
1979 - Star Wars
1980 - Star Wars
1981 - Star Wars
1982 - E.T.
1983 - E.T.
1984 - He-Man
1985 - Transformers + He-Man
1986 - Transformers + Ghostbusters
1987 - ThunderCats
1988 - ThunderCats
1989 - Batman
1990 - Ninja Turtles
1991 - Ninja Turtles
1992 - Batman
1993 - Jurassic Park
1994 - The Lion King
1995 - The Lion King
1996 - Tickle Me Elmo
1997 - Star Wars (starting to ramp back up)
1998 - Star Wars
1999 - Star Wars
2000 - Shrek
2001 - Harry Potter
2002 - Spider-Man
2003 - Harry Potter
2004 - Shrek 2
2005 - Harry Potter
2006-2011 - Harry Potter
 

Kitsunelaine

My favorite cake is pie
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,114
This is a very good point but I still think they could have gotten away with 1 movie a year if TFA had put in the proper groundwork and laid out a universe you could actually tell stories in.
You need to focus on being a good movie first and foremost, and TFA sucseeded. If we're comparing with Marvel, Iron Man was definitely more concerned about being a good movie than building a universe.

Where Star Wars failed was actually figuring out good side-stories to tell. Not "How did Solo get his name", not "how did they get the plans to the death star".
 

Alienhated

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,044
I can't believe that anyone thinks the prequels are better films. More enjoyable in people's personal opinion? Sure that's fair. But the sequel trilogy has so far been better shot, acted and mostly written than the prequel trilogy. I guess people like over the top fights enough to disregard complete lack of chemistry or acting enthusiasm from a lot of the actors.
The sequels are way better as movies, no doubts about that, but i guess it can be argued that at least the prequel movies succeeded to establish a bunch of really cool designed worlds/spaceships/aliens, and to expand the world's lore in at least some interesting way.
They utterly failed as movies, but they still had charm and imagination.
 

SilkySm00th

Member
Oct 31, 2017
794
My 9 year old basically cares nothing for star wars. Watched TFA and kind of half heartedly absorbed The Last jedi. She was out of the room and watching youtube before half the movie was up.

So yah this tracks.
 

RyanW

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
4,867
Eh, there’s a pretty large difference between the 80s and the early 10s
Is it though? You still have to go back and watch the movies. The time they were made has no effect on availability.

You could go into endgame without even knowing that Marvel movies existed and have a ton of fun. You wouldn't know what the hell was happening but it would still be a great time. At the end of the day Marvel just makes really fun movies.
Sure and I don't doubt that, but a third of Endgame is literally "remember the last decade of our movies? Here they are!" Mind you, I loved Endgame though.

Most of the MCU doesn’t require you to have a strong emotional investment in the previous movies, or even a strong familiarity with them. Chunks of TLJ and especially TFA are basically meaningless if you aren’t familiar with Star Wars and have a strong emotional connection to its characters and iconography.
Even though that's the whole point of the Avengers films and probably all of the second half of the Infinity Saga.
Do you think any kids are going to be wearing Kylo Ren costumes 40 years from now?
I honestly couldn't tell you. I'd be surprised if a lot of stuff popular nowadays is popular 40 years from now.
 
Last edited:

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
The sequel movies are way better as movies, no doubts about that, but i guess it can be argued that at least the prequel movies succeeded to establish a bunch of really cool designed worlds/spaceships/aliens, and to expand the world's lore in at least some interesting way.
They utterly failed as movies, but they still had charm and imagination.
To me though who really cares. Star Wars movies should feel like Star Wars movies, not something completely different with completely different designs anyway. MCU does not change the tone/design of its characters radically just for the sake of it.
 

RowdyReverb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,250
Texas
My daughter is 3 years old, and she’s seen the original trilogy a few times, but the new movies are PG-13 and just slightly more racy than I think she’s ready for just yet. She likes Rey and Porgs, but she hasn’t seen them on screen
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
My 9 year old basically cares nothing for star wars. Watched TFA and kind of half heartedly absorbed The Last jedi. She was out of the room and watching youtube before half the movie was up.

So yah this tracks.
That's not anything specific I think the sequel trilogy is doing wrong ... it's just the nature of Star Wars. It's not going to have as wacky/crazy of action and the story telling is comparatively more slow paced with less comedy.

I doubt her reaction to A New Hope would be any different ... probably worse actually.

Star Wars is as old today to kids as Gone With The Wind was to 80s kids. It's pretty fucking old.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
16,026
Greater Vancouver
I'm sure all the kids are blown away about a red stormtrooper. It's so different and new and exciting than the stormtroopers from 40 years ago.

This franchise wants to appeal to kids while being so fundamentally afraid of straying from what some angry middle-aged nerds recognize as Star Wars. Just sell the same ideas, the same imagery, the same music. I mean the sell at the end of the Rise of Skywalker trailer was "hey kids, Palpatine is back!" What does an 8 year old care about fucking Palpatine? Unless their parents sat them down to watch all the previous movies, do they give a shit? Is this supposed to be speaking to their fandom?

The imagery and imagination of Star Wars is so culturally rote and normalized, what is actually all that new and exciting that people hadn't seen before? What is inspiring about Star Wars when everything has been inspired by Star Wars for decades? Is Star Wars at Disneyland going to be exciting in 5 years or is it just another bit of Americana, like Mickey Mouse, where people are like "oh yeah, that," while having no emotional attachment to it?
 
Last edited:

SilkySm00th

Member
Oct 31, 2017
794
That's not anything specific I think the sequel trilogy is doing wrong ... it's just the nature of Star Wars. It's not going to have as wacky/crazy of action and the story telling is comparatively more slow paced with less comedy.

I doubt her reaction to A New Hope would be any different ... probably worse actually.

Star Wars is as old today to kids as Gone With The Wind was to 80s kids. It's pretty fucking old.
Well yea right? That's kind of what all this is saying. It's not that there is any particular thing or character or what not the new movies are missing. There just isnt much to tell in this current star war. If they had jettisoned the planets and ship designs and characters and had everything be totally brand new with like 1 or 2 characters from the originals popping in for hero moments they mighta had something.

But like...she loves the never ending story. She loves princess bride.... that's ancient by her standards and still had something in them that captures kids imaginations. When SW came out that shit looked bonkers. I think people underestimate just how visually appealing the first movies were at the time. And now there are a lot of video games that could easily give the ships in a sw movie a run for their money.
 

Wes D. Mess

Avenger
Aug 11, 2018
447
Chicago
And by struggling, they mean the second biggest movie franchise in the world, trailing only the MCU. MAYBE #3 behind the DCU.

Solo was an all time bomb but they still cranked out 3 $1b+ movies 3 Decembers in a row, with a 4th on its way this year.

I'm curious which brands in general they think are bigger with kids than Star Wars. Off the top of my head:

Marvel
DC
Grand Theft Auto
Call of Duty
Minecraft
Fortnite
Mario
Pokemon (sure as fuck didn't help the Detective Pikachu box office)
maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Jurassic Park?

is there anything else? Between the toys, games, tv shows and movies Star Wars has to be in the top 10.
Definitely Roblox
 

BrickArts295

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,929
I think they should look at the CG Old Republic trailers for inspiration. That's kinda what I wanted out of new Star Wars. New Characters doing cool shit and I'm sure the kids of today would probably find those more entertaining.
 

Alienhated

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,044
I don't even think that Star Wars actually needed some kind of revolution, and honestly the idea that it has to ditch the core concepts at it roots sounds kinda dumb to me.

They just had to come up with:

- An interesting, intriguing, well thought up new story arc, and they miserably failed.
-A more clever use of the old characters.
-A bunch of cool, charming, charismatic new characters. Rey is barely decent, Kylo might be interesting in some way but kind of uncool and weak as a villain, while Finn/Rose/Poe/Snoke/Phasma are just so freaking boring, forgettable and uncharismatic.
-A bunch of cool world/ships/alien races designs, and they really failed at that.

And that would've been it.
 

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,031
It's because they created god awful characters that aren't iconic. No kid is going "I wanna be Fin!" or "I wanna be Snoke!". The originals had Luke, Han, Leia, and Darth Vader who kids all pretended to be and found really cool and interesting because they had such strong character traits. The prequels didn't have iconic characters but it did have a shit ton of cool ships, creatures, and designs. The new movies just have blue x-wings, red tie-fighters, the Falcon, and bigger versions of something you saw 40 years ago. The designs are no where near as interesting. Plus the games have been mostly a total dud. There's not much for kids to be drawn into.

Kids want a world they can fantasize and imagine being it and the new movies lack imagination.
After The Last Jedi I regretted naming my firstborn Snoke
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
It doesn't surprise me the Star Wars park at Disney isn't maybe doing quite as well as they expected.

I think Star Wars is very hard to disseminate into a Disneyland formula. Can you walk onto the Death Star? Nope. Fight in the Battle of Endor? Nope. Visit Hoth? Nope. Cloud City? Nope. Visit an animatronic Yoda on Dagobah? Nope. Well, shit can you at least Pod Race? Nope.

Instead you visit some generic "Star Wars-ey" town that isn't even Tatooine, but some cheap knock off of it because reproducing Tatooine probably costs too much money and doesn't fit into how Disney attractions are built.

I mean yeah it has one ride where you get to go on the Millenium Falcon, but really the whole thing is like a bloated version of Star Tours and Star Tours has never been the top Disneyland attraction.

To make the attractions that I think would really make Star Wars fans go ga-ga would likely require a budget far in excess that can be allowed of any theme park. But what you get is some kind of watered down version. At least Harry Potter "land" is an iconic locale from the Potter movies ... the Disney SW park isn't even that.
 

AlexBasch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,711
Watched the original trilogy a year ago for the first time.

Don't see what's the big deal about it, definitely don't feel like seeing the new one at all.
 

MrMephistoX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,325
Star Wars does best when it’s a film event. Take a break on the movies after IX and pump out episodic stuff that’s better at world building like Clone Wars. I’m really excited about The Mandalorian.