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Bloomberg: Star Wars is Struggling to Win Over the Next Generation of Kids
- Thread starter Deleted member 51691
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The extended material being mostly bad touches me because it was actually a video game(KOTOR 1 and 2) that actually got me into SWs. I had seen bits and pieces of the OT and prequels beforehand but I never really cared for them, thanks to the games I fell down a wookiepedia black hole and then I watched all the movies.
So yeah the worldbuilding aspect was a massive part of me getting into SWs.
The good EU stuff in the Disney era is mostly the comics/books which not many read and nearly all of them are rooted in the OT, there's hardly anything fleshing out the sequel era. Resistance cartoon couldn't lace CWs boots, Rebels was riding hard on the back of CWs but that too was yet another thing rooted in the OT.
So yeah the worldbuilding aspect was a massive part of me getting into SWs.
The good EU stuff in the Disney era is mostly the comics/books which not many read and nearly all of them are rooted in the OT, there's hardly anything fleshing out the sequel era. Resistance cartoon couldn't lace CWs boots, Rebels was riding hard on the back of CWs but that too was yet another thing rooted in the OT.
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You're not successful unless you reach and sustain Marvel numbers.
I'm sure Disney are reallllllly sad about that bargain bin price Lucas gave them. I mean putting Star Wars branding on literally everything can't be that lucrative can it? The movies only just make a billion, chump change I tell you.
I'm sure Disney are reallllllly sad about that bargain bin price Lucas gave them. I mean putting Star Wars branding on literally everything can't be that lucrative can it? The movies only just make a billion, chump change I tell you.
Honestly we're eventually going to hit the point where Marvel stuff isn't really landing with people anymore either. It's still absurd though as most film studios would kill to have something that does Star Wars numbers.
Funny people talking about how old Star Wars is and here these Marvel characters are mostly from the 60s now yeah I get that they aren't the same version and are modern or whatever but it still makes me laugh.
Why not. its been a pretty shitty property for the last twenty years and while the current series is getting flack for unceremoniously sending these characters out to pasture, its about fucking time.
You had so much great canon to draw from, but the mainstream movies just can't get their act together. While the Disney plus shows will help, starting off with a new IP that focuses on Boba Fett as if he didn't have his shine in multiple movies now doesnt bode well.
Its a waste of a property, give it to someone with an imagination that stretches beyond playing with luke and leia action figures
You had so much great canon to draw from, but the mainstream movies just can't get their act together. While the Disney plus shows will help, starting off with a new IP that focuses on Boba Fett as if he didn't have his shine in multiple movies now doesnt bode well.
Its a waste of a property, give it to someone with an imagination that stretches beyond playing with luke and leia action figures
Thats actually one of my biggest issue with the sequel trilogy.
The characters are just too disconnected
Rey really needed stuff like
or the Snowspeeder sequence before going lone jedi.
Finn and Poe had awesome chemistry but immediately get separated
Ackbar gets killed as an afterthought instead of him making the sacrifice and retaining Holdo to develop further later.
Star Wars is actually a pretty specific and narrow property. It's a big universe, yes, but with a limited theme and aesthetic.
The Marvel stuff is far more colorful and varied, with a literal rolodex of leading hero characters that are all cartoon, comic book, and toy-ready. (Star Wars has a vast cast as well, but the majority of them are supporting and background characters.)
Plus, as others have said, Star Wars is actually very inconsistent. Nothing in the franchise has ever landed like the original trilogy, and those movies are getting really old at this point. None of the characters created after the OT have ever had quite the appeal, even the ones that are pretty good.
The Marvel stuff is far more colorful and varied, with a literal rolodex of leading hero characters that are all cartoon, comic book, and toy-ready. (Star Wars has a vast cast as well, but the majority of them are supporting and background characters.)
Plus, as others have said, Star Wars is actually very inconsistent. Nothing in the franchise has ever landed like the original trilogy, and those movies are getting really old at this point. None of the characters created after the OT have ever had quite the appeal, even the ones that are pretty good.
It fucking blew my mind that Rey and Poe just met at the end of TLJ. Like not even a "hey, I'll take care of our comatose buddy Finn while you go off and find Luke" at the end of TFA.Thats actually one of my biggest issue with the sequel trilogy.
The characters are just too disconnected
Rey really needed stuff like
or the Snowspeeder sequence before going lone jedi.
Finn and Poe had awesome chemistry but immediately get separated
Ackbar gets killed as an afterthought instead of him making the sacrifice and retaining Holdo to develop further later.
the movies are pretty universally (outside of Solo) seen as high quality films in addition to making money.
Outside of solo (which didn't get bad reviews, just decent) they are all critically acclaimed. Glowing in the cases of TFA and TLJ.
The fact that TFA and TLJ are seen as very good films by the vast majority of the audience of them is an important element to not overlook here.
Most blockbuster movies would die to have as positive of an audience reception as TFA and TLJ both got.
The new trilogy has been garbage. The characters are flat out uinteresting wooden cutouts. Its just a bunch of nostalgia pandering.
There's not one new character that I care about in any way.
There's not one new character that I care about in any way.
I very much doubt Bay and Paramount gave a damn about the audience reception of Transformers until The Last Knight flopped.
Man if you showed me this thread 5 years ago I would have though the ST films were bombs that were universally disliked rather then high grossing/high RT movies that people seemingly like
*shrug*
*shrug*
this is actually a good point
Rey and Finn had some good time together in the first movie, but mostly everybody's separate
Rey didn't even meet Poe until the end of Last Jedi
This thread isn't saying "no one went to see or likes the new Star Wars." It's saying "kids don't care that much."
So make critically acclaimed movies...like you know The Last Jedi?
I mean... opinions change with time and perspective. A lot of people still do love them, but seeing the way the tide has begun to ebb away at Star Wars lately reminds me of how people were very positive on Dragon Age Inquisition initially, but it's now widely regarded as far more flawed and underwhelming, especially as other similar games in the genre came out and surpassed it.
As an example, look at the history of the reviews for The Phantom Menace. It's kinda of crazy to scroll to the earliest reviews and see that most of them are actually positive.
Episode 1 reviews
As you see critics weigh in over time over the many years, the positive reviews become less frequent. Time and perspective changed things, just as time and perspective will change the perception of TFA and TLJ.
Thread title says that. But the posts in here do not.
There are a lot of people in this thread who are so deluded they actually think the sequel trilogy has been poorly received.
I don't think a comparison with the MCU is really saying much, Marvel is older than Star Wars and was always more fantastical, it just wasn't practical to get these characters and stories onto the big screen, fx needed to get there and it would have to be expensive so it doesn't look cheesy. That Marvel now blew up is because it was their time to shine, all things came together to finally make it happen.
Even if the Star Wars prequels were good in story and execution they still wouldn't have stopped Marvel from rising. There is still a lot of material left in Marvel history to bring to the big screen so I'm curious when these movies will lose their appeal, very hard to predict.
And Star Wars, it's time may simply has come to an end, at least as the biggest thing out there. Whatever they do next, they sort of need to introduce new characters because the sequel characters don't cut it, then they also rely on something new to tell, a different plot than superweapons get destroyed by young wizard with lasersword. Not sure they will ever get this on track again.
Even if the Star Wars prequels were good in story and execution they still wouldn't have stopped Marvel from rising. There is still a lot of material left in Marvel history to bring to the big screen so I'm curious when these movies will lose their appeal, very hard to predict.
And Star Wars, it's time may simply has come to an end, at least as the biggest thing out there. Whatever they do next, they sort of need to introduce new characters because the sequel characters don't cut it, then they also rely on something new to tell, a different plot than superweapons get destroyed by young wizard with lasersword. Not sure they will ever get this on track again.
Audiences seemed to love it too. Highest grossing movie of 2017. Top selling Blu-ray of 2018 (beating both infinity war and black panther).
If anything the reception to TLJ is more positive now than it was December 2017 I would argue though. It seems people grow to like TLJ more as time goes by. More so with TLJ than with TFA in my experience.
Yes, but you can use that galaxy, that familiar aesthetic and tell different genres of stories with all new characters. Rouge One was basically a hiest movie. From what I've seen of the Mandalorian, it's a western. Han Solo failed because it was a story that didn't need to be told and you never felt any stakes because it took place in Han and Chewie's past. Once they can get past the Skywalker saga, there a chance for multitudes of storytelling. They just have to "Let the past die" first.
no everyone hates BB-8.
And if one is to step out of forum echo chambers you'd be surprised to learn that yes ROSE is a popular character amongst Star Wars fans.
We'll see. I'm the opposite. The more I think about the movie, the more plot holes, contrivances, and weird nonsense I come across that I otherwise overlooked or enjoyed beforehand.
I think it's too early to judge TLJ's place in the new trilogy, though. When ESB came out, the reception was NOT as positive because it was such a downer of a movie that ended with a lot of trauma, confusion, and arguments. We all know the "I am your father" twist now, but back then people were arguing for years whether or not Vader was just making it all up and lying to Luke about it. Three years later, one of the first things they had to do was have Obi-Wan go "yes, he is your father" to put that to rest.
RotJ put ESB in a more positive light, because much of its tragedy and conflict planted seeds that bore fruit in the big finale. Without a happy, satisfying conclusion, ESB would've been regarded for years as one of the biggest failings in movie history. They nailed the landing, which made all that build-up have satisfying payoff.
It remains to be seen if TLJ does the same.
Thats actually one of my biggest issue with the sequel trilogy.
The characters are just too disconnected
Rey really needed stuff like
or the Snowspeeder sequence before going lone jedi.
Finn and Poe had awesome chemistry but immediately get separated
Ackbar gets killed as an afterthought instead of him making the sacrifice and retaining Holdo to develop further later.
Yep , It's inexcusable that it took to the end of the second film for the " new trio" to finally all be together. Barring some god tier conclusion I just cant see the ST trio having any lasting impression\impact on the
pop culture consciousness
The comparison to Marvel is silly. Part of the reason fatigue set in for the Star Wars CU was because every movie's a Star Wars movie, and all related to the main story in some way or the other. Marvel films are largely built on unique experiences that, eventually, culminate. Star Wars is honestly the DC situation: they thought they had a CU in the bag.
Also I'm not entirely familiar with how toy sales are in general. Do Marvel toys do well for example?
Also I'm not entirely familiar with how toy sales are in general. Do Marvel toys do well for example?
Nothing wrong with that conclusion. Every generation connects with different movies. This idea that Star Wars has to have the same mindshare it did decades ago is ridiculous.
I can see it especially because Marvel has been beating the shit out of them for kids attention. Seriously Marvel has like 2-3 movies out per year plus a couple of kids show depending on the year.
I'm a passive fan of star wars and I think the new trilogy is kind of bullshit. Rey is such a Mary Sue, Finn gets nothing to do, and Poe is apparently supposed to be the Han Solo stand-in.
I thought force awakens was pretty decent, but last jedi was fucking ass. They have done such a shitty job building all principle villains aside from kylo that it's a shame. And with all this talk about subverting expectations, the one thing they could have done would have been for Kylo and Rey to team up. I would have been pumped. Instead, it's back to cookie cutter tropes when the MCU has been willing to readily and competently play with their storytelling formula.
It's no wonder kids don't give a shit.
I thought force awakens was pretty decent, but last jedi was fucking ass. They have done such a shitty job building all principle villains aside from kylo that it's a shame. And with all this talk about subverting expectations, the one thing they could have done would have been for Kylo and Rey to team up. I would have been pumped. Instead, it's back to cookie cutter tropes when the MCU has been willing to readily and competently play with their storytelling formula.
It's no wonder kids don't give a shit.
Action figure sales in particular have been in the toilet pretty much across the board. It's becoming a toy line increasingly only bought by aging collectors.
That's kind of what I figured. Like, I've not really been in the loop, but I think it was just a natural result of an audience that doesn't find tie-in merchandising as appealing.
Nice, going with sexist slurs. Real cool.
I am sure all the young girls who look up to Rey appreciate you using sexist terminology against her.
They lack vision and Star Wars is allegorical myth from a different age and time when distinct authorship curation had a chance to make an impact and stand out from the crowd. Today, people are flooded with media from all angles continuously and it takes so many cooks to work in the kitchens that everything inherently homogenizes.
Marvel isn't better, there's just more of it. That's the way to have distinction in today's media ecology: total saturation. Good thing Disney owns it all, huh.
I'm sorry, but new SW is nowhere close to even the Prequel films. This may not be the majority opinion, and it may never be the majority opinion to be honest, but I genuinely believe this.
New Star Wars is nothing but a pale imitation; fan-fiction to simply generate revenue.
I stepped out of Force Awakens with a radical re-interpretation and new-found appreciation for and understanding of the Prequel films.
This George Lucas interview with the awful Charlie Rose where he decries Disney is some decent insight:
Marvel isn't better, there's just more of it. That's the way to have distinction in today's media ecology: total saturation. Good thing Disney owns it all, huh.
I'm sorry, but new SW is nowhere close to even the Prequel films. This may not be the majority opinion, and it may never be the majority opinion to be honest, but I genuinely believe this.
New Star Wars is nothing but a pale imitation; fan-fiction to simply generate revenue.
I stepped out of Force Awakens with a radical re-interpretation and new-found appreciation for and understanding of the Prequel films.
This George Lucas interview with the awful Charlie Rose where he decries Disney is some decent insight:
What, you mean kids aren't lining up for the hot new Poe Dameron figures?
I prefer the newer films over the prequel trilogy, but I'd be lying if I said those movies weren't at least far superior when it came to aliens and character designs.
Mary Sue is not a sexist slur. I don't know how you came to even think that.
Regardless, my main point is that I'm extremely disappointed in Rey as a main protagonist in general. I WANT her to be better than what they put in the movies.
Damn, Poe's seen some real shit.What, you mean kids aren't lining up for the hot new Poe Dameron figures?
I prefer the newer films over the prequel trilogy, but I'd be lying if I said those movies weren't at least far superior when it came to aliens and character designs.
Say what you will about the new movies, but they're clearly not made to sell toys
Mary Sue is an extremely sexist and offensive term and belittling of women across the board.
No one is going around calling Luke a "Mary sue" when blew up the Death Star having never flown a space ship or even been in space before for a reason.
Because he is a man. It's a a blatant and vile sexist term against women. And here you are doubling down on it. Really sad.
There is a reason the alt right love the term Mary Sue. Because it's fucking sexist.
It's beyond sexist and offensive you really should stop.
I wonder if we will ever get a non human like protagonist for Star wars? I dunno why Star wars has so many worlds and races, yet anything important is just humans.
Make a movie staring yoda or By alien like creatures.
Oh the while the old movies were bad, the new ones are worst.
And ffs, stop making dead Stars! The dead star is a meme at this point.
Make a movie staring yoda or By alien like creatures.
Oh the while the old movies were bad, the new ones are worst.
And ffs, stop making dead Stars! The dead star is a meme at this point.