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Spookie

Member
Oct 28, 2017
722
Wirral, UK
Yeah The Gallerist is the one that caught my eye. Love the theme.

The trouble is his games are quite difficult to get in Australia (out of stock or really expensive ($120+), and Amazon.com seem to charge crazy prices for shipping (and sometimes won't even ship internationally).

Kanban is available at a reasonable price, so I'm going to look into that. I wanted to get Lisboa but after watching a rules video, I'm not sure anymore, there seem like a lot of systems in that one. Got my eye on Vinhos. The Gallerist if it ever becomes available in Australia again.

As a huge fan and someone who owns almost all of his games I'd say avoid Kanban- that is due a redesign next year as he gets the publishing rights back and will be redesigning it ala Vinhos second edition.

As for where to start: The Gallerist, Co2 and Vinhos are probably the most straightforward of his designs. Lisboa is an amazing game but do not pick it up without having played it first. It's a huge monster of a game and requires a huge time investment not just to learn but to play. You likely won't get the game until at least your second play. You can optionally wait until Escape Plan comes out that should be landing next month and you can likely pre-order from one of the stores which are dealing with fulfilment. Which is exactly what I did for Lisboa and got my self a KS edition too.
 

Jimrpg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,280
I thought I'd look up Escape Plan's KS to see what the prices were like to get Vital's games that way. The good news is that he offered Escape Plan, Lisboa, The Gallerist and Vinhos as a package, though its $365, and looks like its $29 for shipping Escape Plan alone to Australia. So around $400-500 for 4 games. Add on On Mars (that's his next kickstarter), yikes, thats a lot of money.
 

Jimrpg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,280
As a huge fan and someone who owns almost all of his games I'd say avoid Kanban- that is due a redesign next year as he gets the publishing rights back and will be redesigning it ala Vinhos second edition.

As for where to start: The Gallerist, Co2 and Vinhos are probably the most straightforward of his designs. Lisboa is an amazing game but do not pick it up without having played it first. It's a huge monster of a game and requires a huge time investment not just to learn but to play. You likely won't get the game until at least your second play. You can optionally wait until Escape Plan comes out that should be landing next month and you can likely pre-order from one of the stores which are dealing with fulfilment. Which is exactly what I did for Lisboa and got my self a KS edition too.

Yes I hope the stores in Australia get some Vital games when Escape Plan gets shipped here. I have a feeling they're a little overpriced over here, that might make it harder to sell.

I watched the gaming rules videos for Lisboa and had no idea what was going on LOL. Vinhos and The Gallerist make sense. If I had to pick one I'd get The Gallerist first, then Vinhos (still debating that and Viticulture).
 
Nov 13, 2017
251
Yes I hope the stores in Australia get some Vital games when Escape Plan gets shipped here. I have a feeling they're a little overpriced over here, that might make it harder to sell.

I watched the gaming rules videos for Lisboa and had no idea what was going on LOL. Vinhos and The Gallerist make sense. If I had to pick one I'd get The Gallerist first, then Vinhos (still debating that and Viticulture).

Lisboa is so good. Plus pretty simple, play a card, draw a card ;)
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
Oh god another Kickstarter for a game I love, Aeon's End.

79ce54a390494fe391b015825bb4a223_original.jpg

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2012515236/aeons-end-the-new-age

Please stop so I may rest a bit. ;__;
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,156
https://www.amazon.com/Fantasy-Flig...UTF8&qid=1549955274&sr=8-1&keywords=runebound

Hey guys - Runebound 3rd Edition on Amazon is $23 which I feel like is a really good price for it since its normally $60. Maybe its a price error?
They have been putting that game on clearance lately. I picked it up during the holiday sale for $20 and it is well worth it. I also grabbed the Unbreakable Bonds expansion so I can play it solo. The game is actually a lot of fun. You get a lot of game for $23 and I do highly recommend the Unbreakable Bond expansion. Not only for the solo mode but to turn the game into a pure co-op.
 

Jimrpg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,280
They have been putting that game on clearance lately. I picked it up during the holiday sale for $20 and it is well worth it. I also grabbed the Unbreakable Bonds expansion so I can play it solo. The game is actually a lot of fun. You get a lot of game for $23 and I do highly recommend the Unbreakable Bond expansion. Not only for the solo mode but to turn the game into a pure co-op.

Yeah I already have the game but I haven't opened it yet. I also got the unbreakable bonds expansion for coop fun. I think there's a coop scenario for caught in a web too so I'll pick that up down the track. I was interested in the 2nd edition ages ago but never picked it up. I also got gloomhaven recently too so lots of RPG goodness.

I think they're clearing out runebound now, I was reading on bgg that there doesn't seem to be any more expansions coming so this is probably the end of the line. At $23 I picked up another copy anyway just to get in on the sale. :)

Lisboa is so good. Plus pretty simple, play a card, draw a card ;)

I started reading the rules and it finally started to make some sense. Looks awesome! Bit worried I have no one to play with though.

On a different matter, I also picked up Terraforming Mars Hellas and Elysium too, and Exit The Abandoned Cabin. Never played any of the Exit games and for $10 should be a good nights entertainment.
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
I recently discovered Aeon's End and I'm circling an "all-in" pledge for The New Age and first three waves.
I'd have done the same at this point if I didn't already have all previous three. I love this game so much. It's difficult as hell and a bit more complicated than other deck builders but damn if it ain't worth the effort to get into.
 

BlueRose

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,389
I'd have done the same at this point if I didn't already have all previous three. I love this game so much. It's difficult as hell and a bit more complicated than other deck builders but damn if it ain't worth the effort to get into.
I don't own anything and after checking local retail outlets, the "all-in" bundle seems reasonably priced.

How do you rate Legacy?
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
I don't own anything and after checking local retail outlets, the "all-in" bundle seems reasonably priced.

How do you rate Legacy?
I haven't yet been able to bring it out to the table yet, sadly! I got it not so long ago and trying to make sure I have a enough dedicated group who will sit through enough play sessions to go through it fully before I commit the box. I play mostly at a board game club place where the people I play with rotate a lot. I will say though from what I have seen in the rules and cards (haven't touched the envelopes) and what I've heard of the impressions from people who have played it, it's a blast, though a lot of those people are probably already Aeon's End fans so that might a bit biased, but so am I so it will probably be a lot of fun! :P
 

Deleted member 38227

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 12, 2018
3,317
For someone new to the hobby, what older games are must buys/plays? I have Catan (this is the breakout game for the new wave, right?), but was thinking about Carcassonne and maybe Castles of Burgundy.

I want to get a sense of the history of board games and see how contemporary games built from their design...
 

Deleted member 4452

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,377
For someone new to the hobby, what older games are must buys/plays? I have Catan (this is the breakout game for the new wave, right?), but was thinking about Carcassonne and maybe Castles of Burgundy.

I want to get a sense of the history of board games and see how contemporary games built from their design...
The classic triad of gateway games is Catan, Carcassonne, and Ticket to Ride. Castles of Burgundy is a classic too, but it is medium weight rather than gateway. I also consider Power Grid a must-play, but it is heavier than all those listed.
 

Musan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20
For someone new to the hobby, what older games are must buys/plays? I have Catan (this is the breakout game for the new wave, right?), but was thinking about Carcassonne and maybe Castles of Burgundy.

I want to get a sense of the history of board games and see how contemporary games built from their design...
I would say it depends what you are looking for. Worker placement, Caylus is the first popular one, and still holds up. For area control, El Grande is still considered one of the best in the general and has been around for almost 25 years. Carcassonne is good, Castles is decent, but you might want to hold off on that, since the 10th anniversary edition is coming out this year.
 
OP
OP
XShagrath

XShagrath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,201
For someone new to the hobby, what older games are must buys/plays? I have Catan (this is the breakout game for the new wave, right?), but was thinking about Carcassonne and maybe Castles of Burgundy.

I want to get a sense of the history of board games and see how contemporary games built from their design...
I would say for the most part, you don't "need' older games. Board games improve all the time, so it's got to be a really special game that hasn't been been iterated on to the point that the old one is not necessary, outside of nostalgia.

That being said, I still think Castles of Burgundy holds up very well, and would be in my personal Top 10 of games. I'd probably hold out for the new 10th Anniversary version releasing later this year, which will include all of the mini-expansions, and (hopefully) updated graphical components.
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
The classic triad of gateway games is Catan, Carcassonne, and Ticket to Ride. Castles of Burgundy is a classic too, but it is medium weight rather than gateway. I also consider Power Grid a must-play, but it is heavier than all those listed.
And Dominion for spawning an entire genre. Of the four classic games, I think that Carcassonne and Dominion hold up the best, being still among the best of their genre. Settlers of Catan has probably done so the least well.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,058
Settlers of Catan has probably done so the least well.

I see this sentiment a lot, and while I agree to a point, it still does trading better than most games. I played it for the first time in years a few months ago, and everybody still had a lot of fun with it.

Of course, Chinatown blows it out of the water in regards to trading, but good luck finding a copy.

Edit: Just checked Z-man games homepage, and apparently a reprint of Chinatown is at the printers as we speak. Don't sleep on it if you like trading!
 
Last edited:

Rover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,420
Older games are great.

You should really check out classics like:

Acquire (1964)
Ra(1999)
Survive:Escape from Atlantis (1982)
Mystery of the Abbey (1995)
Tigris and Euphrates (1997)
Lost Cities (1999)
Cosmic Encounter (1977, but many revisions)

Just to name a few
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,939
CT
Classic games I can also recommend

Carcassone
Ticket To Ride
No Thanks
For Sale

All four of these work as amazing gateway games and still hold up well today.

For more modern gateways I'd suggest Azul, King Domino, and Forbidden Island. Pandemic is the better coop then forbidden island, but FI is a lot easier which I think makes it the perfect gateway coop.
 

Deleted member 38227

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 12, 2018
3,317
Thanks for all the replies! And, yes, I understand that many of the "gateway" games have been improved upon-- it may be "fun" to play them in an educational/historical sense, at least.

EDIT: I have Azul and luckily my family likes that one so we play it often--all the others I bought (15 in the last two months), not so much... lol
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
I see this sentiment a lot, and while I agree to a point, it still does trading better than most games. I played it for the first time in years a few months ago, and everybody still had a lot of fun with it.
There are reasons for this. The first is that if your numbers don't come up, you do nothing. It doesn't matter how great the trading works if you don't have any resources to trade for. And as the numbers are determined by dice, there's nothing to mitigate 10 coming up three times in a row and the like. It's a great way to fire up the brain's reward pathways, but it's a poor mechanic overall.

That wouldn't be too bad if the game were 45 minutes long, but they can easily drag to three times that long, especially if you add an expansion or two. Being overly long may not seem a very serious sin, but it means that players can have very long periods of inactivity.

I'd say that Catan is still a decent gateway game, and that there's nothing wrong with liking it. However, there are a lot of much better games out there.
 

MyQuarters

Member
Oct 25, 2017
828
UK
I'd add Puerto Rico as a great game to look at if you're focusing on important board games of old(ish)

I find it quite hard to judge weight. It's very dry, but not that difficult to grasp for newbies, I shouldn't think
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,480
So I've never sleeved anything in my life.
I think I'm going to sleeve wingspan and Everdell just because I love the art so much

Is there a brand or type everyone recommends? I have no idea what to look for
 

Deleted member 38227

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 12, 2018
3,317
Wingspan is 57x87 mm
Dragon shield is 66x91
I've never sleeved anything. Will it look ok to be a larger size sleeve?
I think they won't shuffle as easily with the extra space, but maybe someone with more experience with non-CCG cards can chime in... It's weird that the Ultra Pro specs make it seem too small, but there is photographic evidence of how they look. Fantasy Flight ones seem closer, by spec, though.

Just be sure to get the clear/transparent ones with a matte finish, as the non-textured ones are a bitch to shuffle and stack.
 

Spookie

Member
Oct 28, 2017
722
Wirral, UK
Green Fantasy Flight Games sleeves is what you're looking for when it comes to sleeving wingspan fyi. :)

The cards are american sized, the width isn't as big as the poker style cards.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,480
I think they won't shuffle as easily with the extra space, but maybe someone with more experience with non-CCG cards can chime in... It's weird that the Ultra Pro specs make it seem too small, but there is photographic evidence of how they look. Fantasy Flight ones seem closer, by spec, though.

Just be sure to get the clear/transparent ones with a matte finish, as the non-textured ones are a bitch to shuffle and stack.

Thanks maybe I'll go to my local store and just see in person ha. I want them to fit in the storage container that came with it too
Green Fantasy Flight Games sleeves is what you're looking for when it comes to sleeving wingspan fyi. :)

The cards are american sized, the width isn't as big as the poker style cards.

The BGG thread says those bow the cards. Is that incorrect?
 

Deleted member 38227

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 12, 2018
3,317
Thanks maybe I'll go to my local store and just see in person ha. I want them to fit in the storage container that came with it too
Yeah, that's a big concern. I just sleeved the cards for Root and now they don't fit in the box's space. It's amazing how much area the sleeves add. Let me know what you come up with and how they worked. Depending on how the cards feel, I may sleeve Wingspan, too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,480
Hasn't with mine. The regular american Mayday did though. However the orange american chimera mayday sleeves didn't either. But I didn't have enough left to sleeve.

Edit: Engrish.
Yeah, that's a big concern. I just sleeved the cards for Root and now they don't fit in the box's space. It's amazing how much area the sleeves add. Let me know what you come up with and how they worked. Depending on how the cards feel, I may sleeve Wingspan, too.
Jamey has said that you won't be able to fit all of the cards back into the little blue card container if they are sleeved.

Thanks for all the info everyone
Now I'm in a predicament because if they don't fit in the container that really stinks. I have to decide to sleeve or storage ha. Oh boy
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
Older games are great.

You should really check out classics like:

Acquire (1964)
Ra(1999)
Survive:Escape from Atlantis (1982)
Mystery of the Abbey (1995)
Tigris and Euphrates (1997)
Lost Cities (1999)
Cosmic Encounter (1977, but many revisions)

Just to name a few
Yeah, there are a lot of good older games out there. However, I think that overall game design is way better nowadays than it was in the past. Modern developers are just so much better at discerning good mechanics and coming up with new ideas, and there are just so many more games and different kinds of games available now.

Jamey has said that you won't be able to fit all of the cards back into the little blue card container if they are sleeved.
Yeah, I hate it when the original storage isn't made with sleeves in mind. I just sleeved High Society, and it wouldn't fit with the insert. At least that game just has a flimsy insert so it's a no brainer to toss it.
 

Rover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,420
Yeah, there are a lot of good older games out there. However, I think that overall game design is way better nowadays than it was in the past. Modern developers are just so much better at discerning good mechanics and coming up with new ideas, and there are just so many more games and different kinds of games available now.

There are more people designing games, certainly, and the avenues to put a game out have improved, but modern designers better? I think they are in many cases iterating on good games from earlier days. There is also a lot of modern junk, too, and we are not necessarily looking at a lot of modern games with the clarity of hindsight.

There is also a downside to so many games coming out- they are a lot more 'disposable', and even good games get forgotten within a year.
 

Deleted member 9241

Oct 26, 2017
10,416
Oh gosh you are so right, I am already above double and they just added another 30$ addon.
But damn I can't resist.

There is an interesting psychology to some to these Kickstarters. Like, people pledge early for "X" amount. Now it's as though that money is already spent and you don't really think that adding $10 bucks a few days later, or $40 2 weeks later is a big deal. The money is bled out slowly over time and it somehow reduces the sticker shock a great deal.
 

derFeef

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,358
Austria
There is an interesting psychology to some to these Kickstarters. Like, people pledge early for "X" amount. Now it's as though that money is already spent and you don't really think that adding $10 bucks a few days later, or $40 2 weeks later is a big deal. The money is bled out slowly over time and it somehow reduces the sticker shock a great deal.
Oh it's a good strategy :D
I can afford it and I do love Munchkin so worth it, but wow. Only sad thing about that campaign is - no gameplay video yet :(
 

Deleted member 9241

Oct 26, 2017
10,416
Thanks to Amazon's sale, I grabbed Sagrada + expansion, Azul, and Reef. We already played Reef and the family loved it. Sagrada will be next. My kid's eyes lit up when I briefly showed them the components and basic concepts of the game.
 

tm24

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,903
Me and my gf finally played Spirit Island yesterday. WE don't fully get it and my gf punched me in the arm repeatedly after we realized we screwed up, so naturally she wants to play it again because she refuses to lose to an invisible force
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
There are more people designing games, certainly, and the avenues to put a game out have improved, but modern designers better? I think they are in many cases iterating on good games from earlier days. There is also a lot of modern junk, too, and we are not necessarily looking at a lot of modern games with the clarity of hindsight.

There is also a downside to so many games coming out- they are a lot more 'disposable', and even good games get forgotten within a year.
I don't think that hindsight is all that important. A lot of the better games reveal themselves right away, and in the last couple of years, there have been an awful lot of really good games. In fact, there have been so many that it's easy to ignore 80% of them and just pick up the ones that really draw your attention. It's not like back in the day where there were only 2-3 great games, and you'd often have to settle for mediocrity.
 

Deleted member 8860

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,525
It's not like back in the day where there were only 2-3 great games, and you'd often have to settle for mediocrity.

I don't think we've been in that situation in at least 20 years, and much longer that if you consider abstracts and traditional card games.

By 1999 (let alone 2009) there were a plethora of fantastic modern/Euro games, including many that are still the pinnacles of their genres.

That's not to say that there aren't more great games coming out in recent years, but there being just 2-3 great games "back in the day" is very hyperbolic.