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countblanc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14
Southeast Michigan
Thats why you dont back whitout published rules. You can easily see if the rules are bad
That's my rule too, and even then I usually wait for someone I know who has ~insider info~ to tell me if it's worth my time. I think the only games I've backed in the past 3 years are Kitchen Rush and the Gloomhaven reprint.

Never ever ever back a game that doesn't have its rules on the page, and ideally wait to read impressions from people who have print-and-play versions (people who don't have a vested interest in the game's success, I mean).
 

Jims

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,226
Taught a couple of my friends 7 Wonders recently, and they got really obsessed with it and we played 3 games in a row tonight. They specifically asked me to bring it when I came over.

I really enjoy how the meta keeps changing in that game after repeated plays with the same people. It obviously changes a bit depending on the wonders being played, but people keep shifting around what is perceived as dominant strategy... It feels particularly noticeable in this game compared to other ones. The first game was won because we didn't bother to stop someone from going on a Science run. The second game, people wisely split up the science cards, and I gobbled up 50 points in blue and purple cards, and won. The third game was won by the person with the perfect military score, and he just kinda did every category competently (5-8 points almost everywhere). It's also nice because it's so fast to setup repeated plays, so you can knock out 3 games pretty quick.

Dunno how balanced the game truly is from an academic standpoint, but I feel like that natural meta shift makes it really good. People start getting really observant about what to burn and what to send around.
 

EYEL1NER

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,785
Yes, the boardgame thread! My favorite place to lurk, bane of my wallet.

So , I'll be heading to Akihabara tomorrow to get me some Japanese boardgames, any recommendations? I already bought love letter (I like the original illustrations so much more), currently thinking about "A fake artist goes to New York" and that game where you roll snowballs at zombies, I forgot the name. Any other must haves or recommendations?
One of the games from Japan that I'd love to have is Sanzen Sekai: I'd Kill All the Crows in the World to be with you a Little Longer. It was just released by a different publisher with the name Crows Overkill but I feel like the original version of the game looks cooler (and has better components). I love the theme/story and want to own it solely because of that, but I'd play it too. Here's the description from BGG:


""Sanzen-sekai no karasu wo koroshi, nushi to asane gam shitemitai" (translated as "I'd kill all the crows in the world to sleep with you in the morning") is an old song sung at a red-light district in the mid-1800s by one guest: Takasugi Shinsaku, a central figure of the early Meiji Restoration who lived a turbulent life. The saying means, "When a crow cries, I must leave this place. Even if I must kill crows all over the world, I want to stay with you a little while longer." The song expresses his longing for amorous time to be prolonged for even just a short while.

In the game Sanzen Sekai: I'd kill all the crows in the world to be with you a little longer, now titled Crows Overkill in its newest edition, players roleplay guests in a red-light district. Many birds gather in front of each player. The players must kill or move birds to prevent them from crying. If birds in front of a player cry, that player must leave the red-light district to go home (i.e. drop out of the game). The player who manages to stay in the red-light district for the longest time wins.

In more detail, players attempt to be the last one called away from the red-light district by the cry of crows, warblers, and roosters. The game consists of two decks of cards — birds and shamisen — along with a time board. Each turn follows this sequence:

  1. Cards are drawn from both decks. Birds are placed on the table in front of the current player, while shamisen cards go into their hand.
  2. Shamisen cards are then played to eliminate birds.
  3. A check is made against the time board to see whether the remaining birds cry and the current player is eliminated.
The turns continue until one player remains in the game and is declared the winner."



Whoo, played my first game of Fury of Dracula today and won as Dracula. I really dig the game but playing as him can be a bit stressful. I feel like it's a more fun experience for the hunters but I did have some really satisfying moments, like the one where they realized I was likely about to win and they couldn't do anything.

I'm glad to see the OT here now, and looking forward to spending more time here than I have in the past.
I had a ton of fun as Dracula the entire time (up to when I made two mistakes that caused me to announce where I was, take damage, and die, anyway) when I played it because the hunters had no clue where I was. It was entertaining listening to them trying to deduce my location and be way off, or get close but wind up going the wrong way. Or when I finally had someone catch me in a battle as Mina and I did a ton of damage to her and completely demoralized all of them. There are times when I can have a great poker face and others when I can't contain any of my emotions and give any kind of secret away, but I played an ace Dracula until I lost myself the game.
 

Izayoi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
828
Have you ever tried a 10x10? They work wonders for me (and my wallet). For those not privy, a 10x10 is where you make a 10x10 graph, with 10 games you want to play more of (old classics you want to revisit, newer games you don't want to forget about, etc.) and put them in each of the 10 rows. Then your goal is to play each of those 10 games 10 times within the time frame you set for yourself, putting the date you played it in one of the columns next to it. Depending on how often you get to game you might want to try 6 months or a year, because either way it's 100 rounds of whatever games you use.

You obviously don't need to castigate yourself if you fail to finish your grid in the allotted time but just seeing it there is a great motivator when deciding what to play. I recommend putting your chart together with your usual play group - odds are they'll be along for most of that journey so it makes sense to pick games you all want to play more of. I also recommend a mix of longer and shorter games, maybe even a solo game if you have one you want to play.

My 10x10 let me revisit Caylus after having it on the shelf for too long (still an amazing game), play more games of Archipelago, and finally burn through the 10 starting missions in Tragedy Looper. I highly recommend them!
Hey, this is a great idea! Thank you for the suggestion.

I think that we already decided we're going to get a couple more games as a group (Blood Rage and Arkham Horror LCG are next I believe) so maybe we will make a point to mix them in with the others.

I like playing games solo. It's relaxing.
Confession time: the only solo board/card game I've ever played is solitaire. I never realized there was even a real market for it until I got into the board game community.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,686
I'm so happy the thread is back!

Unfortunately I'm on my phone so I can't easily type much, but I do still want to teach 1-3 people Innovation on tabletop simulator some day if I can find anyone online. Feel free to reply if you're interested well. Previously I only asked about it in Discord.
 

Fairy Godmother

Backward compatible
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
3,289
You can play the original Arkham Horror board game solo too, but... I mean, let's face it lol. Playing board/card games by yourself is super depressing.
I feel you. I played like 4-5 Eldritch horror game solo, it's pretty cool but it's not as immersive as video games. Played one with friends but they reckoned it was way too complicated and long. (It's how I like it dammit!)

I'm personally (almost) done with KS boardgames, the miniature onslaught that stands in for quality game engines and longetivity of play - I love theme but I'm almost longing for the second wave of pasted on themes on the mid 00s when trying to get mileage out of the KS fair.
Agree with this. Minis are more style than substances. There's nothing you can't do with mini that you can't with some simple tokens, plus it would bring the cost down too.
 

Spookie

Member
Oct 28, 2017
722
Wirral, UK
Taught a couple of my friends 7 Wonders recently, and they got really obsessed with it and we played 3 games in a row tonight. They specifically asked me to bring it when I came over.

If you enjoy it I've been told you need to get leaders and cities expansions to fill the game out and add some more depth for very little additional complexity.

Speaking of drafting games I ended up picking up Bunny Kingdom while in Vegas and I enjoyed it. Though not sure it'll replace Kingdom Builders epic filler slot.
 

jepense

Member
Oct 26, 2017
78
Finland
Dunno how balanced the game truly is from an academic standpoint, but I feel like that natural meta shift makes it really good. People start getting really observant about what to burn and what to send around.
It's balanced, but you are mostly playing against your immediate neighbors. It's nice in how it scales for many players, but in a large group you can't really do that much with or against distant players.
 

Tyvan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
344
Georgia
Any Heroscape players here? If that counts as a "board game', then it is by far my favorite. My son and I break it out a few times every year and take over the entire table with it. It is such a fun game and even new players can have fun playing the basic style. Years ago we even got the baseball size cards printed up and it is much more manageable now. I am just missing a few..still need to finish the entire collection! Me typing this up got me excited to play again!
normal_HSIllustrated_p3.jpg

298257.jpg
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,061
Hey everyone!

Having lurked the previous place for quite some time I decided to try for an account here after the forumcalypse struck, and was pleasantly surprised that I didn't have to wait more than a few minutes to get approved.

I suspect I will post here quite a bit, as I've actually preferred cardboard to pixels lately.

What's the general consensus on the Dark Souls board game?

My advice would probably be to stay away. I kickstarted the game, as I really like the souls series, but was really disappointed by the game. Lovely components and miniatures, but the actual game is grindy and takes an insane amount of time just to make minimal progress. There are fun parts in there, but they are buried in an unfocused mess of a game that simultaneously wants to be faithful to its digital counterpart, while completely misinterpreting what made it fun in the first place.

There are lots of better dungeon crawlers out there. I haven't gotten gloomhaven to the table yet, but considering the general praise it gets it would probably scratch that itch in a more satisfying way.
 
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dee_activate

Member
Oct 25, 2017
186
world
Hey all. Yay a boardgaming thread. Watched!! My boyfriend and myself have started getting into boardgames. It started slow with ticket to ride. Then 7 wonders and Carcassonne. To pandemic and eldrich horror. I've started getting into arkham horror LCG, and just got Inis and Pandemic legancy. We're hoping to get more friends involved.

Played a good group card game called Antidote at a dinner party. It was a lot of fun, very quick and easy to learn.

Know of any good digital cross overs and if any here want to meet up to play them online just pm me :)
 

Bane

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,905
I had a ton of fun as Dracula the entire time (up to when I made two mistakes that caused me to announce where I was, take damage, and die, anyway) when I played it because the hunters had no clue where I was. It was entertaining listening to them trying to deduce my location and be way off, or get close but wind up going the wrong way. Or when I finally had someone catch me in a battle as Mina and I did a ton of damage to her and completely demoralized all of them. There are times when I can have a great poker face and others when I can't contain any of my emotions and give any kind of secret away, but I played an ace Dracula until I lost myself the game.

That is almost verbatim how my experience went, I even also had a Mina that attacked a vampire and lost the fight pretty badly. I do have a pretty good poker face so I never gave anything away but at one point the hunters had a conversation for almost 10 minutes trying to figure out how the hell I slipped by them (the Hide card) and the longer it went on the harder it was.

I mostly think I'd have more fun as a hunter because I love co-op games so I'd enjoy working with the other hunters.
 

SleazyC

Member
Oct 26, 2017
39
US of A
Newbie board game here. Just going through my Catan phase but am branching out and trying to go to as many board game meetups and play board games with friends as much as possible. Looking forward to seeing what everyone is playing and picking up some new games.
 

Jims

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,226
If you enjoy it I've been told you need to get leaders and cities expansions to fill the game out and add some more depth for very little additional complexity.

Nice! I'll have to look it up. I get nervous about adding expansions to some games because my friends zone out a little if it gets complex (Seafarers Catan is the farthest they go), but that sounds like it could be up their alley.

It's balanced, but you are mostly playing against your immediate neighbors. It's nice in how it scales for many players, but in a large group you can't really do that much with or against distant players.

Yeah, I've been noticing that I enjoy 7 Wonders most with only 4-5 players max because of those concerns. 7 players is fun but I found that I have so little control/influence over what 4 other people are doing, that you're at the mercy of other people making sure their neighbors don't go nuts in a category. Our 4 player games last night, there was still a lot of jockeying with the player we weren't directly neighboring.
 

WoollyTitan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
558
The Maldovarium
Agree with this. Minis are more style than substances. There's nothing you can't do with mini that you can't with some simple tokens, plus it would bring the cost down too.

Part of the appeal of miniatures is actually painting them. It's just as much of a hobby as it is a game. That said, the X-Wing game is a clear and obvious exception. It's designed with ease of use and collectability in mind.
 

Necrovex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,110
I attempted to get into 7 Wonders, but it didn't click with me compared to other games. My group loves playing that game, so I usually play it if no other good alternatives are available.

Oh, one of my favorite types of games are social deduction ones. Werewolf and Secret Hitler are so much fun, even if I'm bad at lying.
 
OP
OP
XShagrath

XShagrath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,201
Updated the OP. If anyone knows any Kickstarters up right now that look hot (Joan of Arc?), let me know and I'll update. Same with reviews. If anyone wants to do the first review, let me know.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,686
Anyone want to learn Innovation in the next 2 hours and have Tabletop Simulator?

*edit* Starting in the next 5 minutes if anyone wants to join, just reply / get in Discord.
 
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Boat Times

Made the Grade
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,565
Nice OP, Shagrath! Also, nice banner Rover. Looking forward to seeing it updated with some reviews and kickstarter highlights. As for Kickstarter, might I suggest Root? Joan of Ark is another good one, I'd think. At least in terms of hype.
 

PCfromNYC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,332
Today I learned that Machi Koro Deluxe is expensive compared to just getting the original and both expansions.
 

EYEL1NER

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,785
Today I learned that Machi Koro Deluxe is expensive compared to just getting the original and both expansions.
Yeah, I just noticed a few days ago that it must be between print runs at the moment. I'm still not sure how I want to proceed though. From what I've gathered on BGG, there is a chance of getting cards in Machi Koro Deluxe that are the wrong size from each other and the cards are really thin, whereas if I buy the expansions seperatly to add onto the base game I have, there is still a chance of getting mis-sized cards as well as card backs being slightly different in color.
 

Fireblend

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,454
Costa Rica
I've fell off of buying news (physical) board games this year due to spending more on videogames this year, but still play plenty of board games now that my friends seem to know me as the boardgames guy :P just had a pretty good Halloween themed game night yesterday with King of Tokyo, Betrayal at House in the Hill, Dead of Winter and Sweets Stack.

I should probably take a look at some of the more popular releases from this year. I think the most game I bought was Kingdomino.
 

Pilgrimzero

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,129
Played 2 more games this weekend.

Buffy the VS. Fun but feels lacking some how. To simplistic maybe? I wonder how it compares in fun to the old one.

Lords of Waterdeep, great game but I feel the flavor of it falls on deaf ears. People asking for orange cubes instead of Fighters etc
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,686
Any suggestions for a game similar to Catan? Preferably the same level of approachability. Thanks in advance
If you mean in terms of area control, I'm not sure.

In terms of approachability and "gateway game" factor, Splendor and Ticket to Ride are some popular simple options to consider. 7 Wonders has a bit more reading but is still fairly simple.
 

Deleted member 17403

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,664
If you mean in terms of area control, I'm not sure.

In terms of approachability and "gateway game" factor, Splendor and Ticket to Ride are some popular simple options to consider. 7 Wonders has a bit more reading but is still fairly simple.
Yea, I heard Ticket to Ride is plenty good, I've seen Splendor but it never really drew my interest. I'll probably look into Ticket to Ride and some other board games with Target's b2g1.

Thanks
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,686
Yea, I heard Ticket to Ride is plenty good, I've seen Splendor but it never really drew my interest. I'll probably look into Ticket to Ride and some other board games with Target's b2g1.

Thanks
If Target has Codenames or Codenames Pictures (or even both if you're desperate to buy something), those are generally big party hits and very simple to learn. They're team guessing games that work well with 6+ players, where a captain tries to get his team to guess certain cards.
 
OP
OP
XShagrath

XShagrath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,201
Greetings, new people!

Thanks for crushing me in Innovation, Blizzard. We'll have to do it again sometime.
 

Bane

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,905
I'm going to second Codenames as a great gateway/party game. There's even themed version now like Disney and Marvel.
 
OP
OP
XShagrath

XShagrath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,201
I'm going to second Codenames as a great gateway/party game. There's even themed version now like Disney and Marvel.
Just be aware that the Disney and Marvel versions are not done by CGE, and don't seem like they will work as well. The great thing about Codenames: Pictures was how the cards could be interpreted in multiple ways. I guess the same thing can be said about the Marvel and Disney versions, but they are just stock art pictures. I think it would work best for hardcore fans of the properties, but not so much for the average player.
 

Bane

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,905
Just be aware that the Disney and Marvel versions are not done by CGE, and don't seem like they will work as well. The great thing about Codenames: Pictures was how the cards could be interpreted in multiple ways. I guess the same thing can be said about the Marvel and Disney versions, but they are just stock art pictures. I think it would work best for hardcore fans of the properties, but not so much for the average player.

Ah, I wasn't aware.
 
OP
OP
XShagrath

XShagrath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,201
Guess I'll throw up the first "shelfie." I've got a little room to grow, but not much! Wife put a kibosh on upgrading to the 5x5 Kallax. :(

kTkiaLch.jpg


If you've got questions about any of these games, ask away!
 
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zulux21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,372
Yeah, I just noticed a few days ago that it must be between print runs at the moment. I'm still not sure how I want to proceed though. From what I've gathered on BGG, there is a chance of getting cards in Machi Koro Deluxe that are the wrong size from each other and the cards are really thin, whereas if I buy the expansions seperatly to add onto the base game I have, there is still a chance of getting mis-sized cards as well as card backs being slightly different in color.
To be fair mismatched cards in a game like Machi koro isn't the end of the world
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,686
Thanks to XShagrath for being patient and playing 1v1 Innovation with me on Tabletop Simulator. Now that the thread is up, I'm finally going to type out my thoughts. I've been a bit obsessed with the game and have pretty much gotten it out of my system now.


Summary

Innovation is a semi-classic tableau-building game for 2-4 players. Theoretically you could use expansions and play with more, but it would be crazy. The game has cards of values 1-10 in 5 colors. Each value has 10 unique cards except for value 1, which has 15. All cards are placed in shuffled supply piles.

Before starting the game, a card is removed from supply piles 1-9 and used as a facedown achievement marker. Players do not know the identity of these cards. Each player is given 2 cards of value 1. They simultaneously choose 1 as their starting tableau, and keep the other 1 as their starting hand. The removed cards plus the different starting cards mean each game plays out a bit differently.

The game ends in one of three ways:
  1. The game ends instantly if a player earns a certain number of achievements ((8 - number of players) + (number of expansions used)). That player wins.
  2. The game ends instantly if a player activates a card that causes a player to win (e.g. "if this condition is true, the player with the most [whatever] symbols wins.")
  3. The game ends instantly if a player attempts to draw a card of value 11 or more by any means. The player with the highest score wins in this case.

Gameplay

In general, the rules are very clear and there's a nice official FAQ. Basic gameplay is quite simple and most of the depth and strategy come from card interactions.

The first player gets 1 action (first 2 players in 4+ player games), and every turn after that gets 2 actions. The same action can be used twice, or two different actions can be used. Options are:
  1. Draw a card from a supply pile to your hand. You use the supply pile matching your highest top card, and if a pile is empty you draw from the next highest pile. Thus players will start drawing 1's and eventually end up drawing 6's etc.
  2. Meld a card from your hand to your tableau. If you meld a card but your tableau already has card(s) of that color, the cards underneath are hidden.
  3. Dogma your topmost card of a color, which means to activate its card text.
  4. Achieve a general achievement that you qualify for. You must have 5x the value in points and a top card of at least the achievement value (you don't spend the points; they just qualify you). e.g. general achievement 3 requires a top card of 3+ and a score of 15+.

There are also 5 special achievements that are instantly claimed by the first player to trigger their condition, even on somebody else's turn or in the middle of an action. For example, if you have 12 clock symbols visible you instantly get a certain achievement.

Gameplay wrinkles are introduced because cards can be "splayed" by dogma effects. Splaying means that each card in a stack is shifted to one side, partially revealing the card underneath. Each card also has 4 symbols on it -- 1 in the upper left and 3 on the bottom. Depending on which direction a stack is splayed, a card underneath will show 1, 2, or 3 symbols, and this is an important gameplay mechanic.

These symbols affect who uses dogma actions. Before doing any actions on a card, you check the symbol count around the table for the symbol marked on an action. Players with fewer of the indicated symbol are "vulnerable to demands", and players with greater than or equal are "eligible for sharing". If the action starts with "I demand that you...", all players who are vulnerable must do what it says. If the action does not start with that, all players who are eligible MUST share the action before you (which may actually hurt them). Finally, you do the action, and you get a free draw action if someone shared a non-demand effect.

The above may sound confusing, but in practice it is pretty straightforward if you read each effect out. However, there is a fair amount of bookkeeping since you have to count symbols around the table every time you use an action.

As a result of all this, the strategy at any given time may change based on which symbols are available at which stage of the game. You may try to use a demand to hurt another player, or if you cannot overcome their defense you might trigger an action they are forced to share which actually hurts them. If you are ahead in points, you may try to score more points so you can quickly claim more general achievements. If you are behind in points, you may attack the other player's score and/or attempt to quickly ladder climb to the higher value cards. Values 7-9 may start having conditions that instantly win the game, and value 10 cards are extremely powerful and potentially game-deciding.

Deluxe Edition and Expansions

The 3rd edition has very modern simple outline drawings rather than the full color art of the Iello edition. I like the Iello art better after seeing Tabletop Simulator. However, the 3rd edition does have a few isolated card balance changes if I recall correctly, and the terms seem clearer ("tuck" instead of "archive", "achievement" instead of "dominion" etc.). The Deluxe Edition also comes with all 4 expansions. Off the top of my head I think 2 were released before, and 2 are new with this edition.

Card quality is okay. I haven't felt the need to sleeve the cards. The box is very shiny but the lid is thin cardboard. There is an insert which is pretty mediocre since most of the box space is wasted and the cards just fall over after you remove any of them. However, they did consider people who sleeve cards and suggest you turn the insert upside down so you can place 2 columns of sleeved cards instead of 1 column of unsleeved cards.

I have only tried the Cities expansion, which allows you to draw a special city card if you use a Meld action to place a new color, or if you splay a color in a new direction. You can only draw a city card if you do not already have one in your hand. These cards may give you achievements, auto-splay stacks, give you a free card, or draw cards with a certain symbol. It seems interesting, but in the one game versus myself, I rarely seemed to find occasion to draw city cards, so the vast majority of the 105 city cards went unused. In addition, Endorse, the max-once-per-turn special action of the Cities expansion very rarely if EVER got used. It seems interesting in theory -- you pick a top action you own, pick a top city you own with a matching symbol, and perform the demand TWICE or the action TWICE (people who use it because of sharing only do it once). You "pay" for this endorsement by tucking a card from your hand underneath one of your card stacks, which may be something you want do anyway.

My problem with this was that most of the time, I did not have a top city matching a symbol I might want to duplicate, and cities completely cover the dogma action underneath them, limiting your strategic options.

My Experiences

I have played 2-player against myself 4-5 times, against my fiancé 3 times, and against XShagrath once.

Obviously I have the advantage of experience, but I have won every game against another player besides one where I refused to get general achievements even though I had the points, basically because I actually wanted to see what 9 and 10 cards did instead of ending it early. I do not mean this in a bragging sense, and I am normally pretty bad at strategy games, but I have gotten the impression this is very strong in 2-player games.

The issue is that unless you use a variant for a longer game where 7 achievements are required, a 2-player game requires only 6 achievements. Chances are good that at least one player will get some early cards that allow scoring points (this may involve drawing a card from a supply pile and putting it in your score stack, or putting a card directly from your hand in your score stack, for example). This player is then motivated to keep doing this several times until they have built up a decent 10-20 point score.

Unless the other player is lucky enough to get the proper symbol to share in the action, a good score card of their own, or a viable attack card to attack the score pile, one player can easily grab 2-4 of the easiest achievements (values 1-4). The other player is then forced to play at a massive deficit for the rest of the game, watching every move by the other player, since any increase in score or qualifying special achievements could quickly end the game.

Another thing I have noticed is that although the game is very swingy by design, with the possibility of coming back late game with powerful cards, it feels BAD to lose, BAD to be attacked, and SORT OF BAD being unable to use your own action without sharing it in some situations. With the right setup, someone can do things like completely demolish your score pile while also removing cards from your tableau. Or, they can steal cards from your tableau. Playing against XShagrath, he killed 2 or 3 of my colors entirely in the early game, but I had enough points that I still won because of sheer general achievements. When you lose you feel stupid, like you are convinced there was a better strategy and you just missed it. But ultimately, a lot of things do depend on RNG, like someone drawing and melding or scoring 3 cards in a row because they happened to all have the correct symbol (this happened with me in the XShagrath game). There are similarly some mighty shenanigans that can happen if you get into the 7+ value cards where someone will instantly snowball or win. This can be exciting if it is a comeback, but it also does not feel very strategic (oh, the 1/10 chance happened to be a "you win if XYZ" card).

Conclusion

Overall it is quite a creative and unique game. The blend of simple mechanics, complex card interactions, and increasingly powerful cards is alluring. Getting to do 2 actions per turn produces interesting combinations. However, I have decided it is not really for me and my fiancé. The sheer meanness of certain cards leads it to feel very random and unfair, even if there is the slight possibility of coming back. Knowing that you could use certain cards to attack a strategy does not help if you do not get those cards. Perhaps my biggest complaint is that in 2-player games, the overwhelming majority seem to end early with 6 achievements. Only occasionally do a few 7-10 cards come out. This could be because I am not playing at a high level, but consider the math -- with 2 players, if they divide the easiest achievements, that is still something like a 3 vs. 4 breakdown. The player with 4 only has to grab one or two special achievements and maybe a score achievement to win, so the other player needs very quick ladder or attack options to have a chance.

In addition, I feel the game is very fiddly for what it provides. It eats a surprising amount of table space when you get 10-20 supply stacks, 10+ player stacks splayed all over, and some score + achievement stacks. Splaying cards feels fiddly. Counting symbols is fiddly since they are not all in the same locations on cards, messing with my visual parsing. Keeping track of your score is awkward when you have stuff like 4/3/5/4/1/2 in a score stack and then something gets removed.

For someone who does enjoy the older version, the Deluxe edition is probably worth it for the extra expansions and minor balance updates.
 

nicoga3000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,975
Oh good! Love this thread!

I am almost done putting KD:M together so I can finally start playing, ha.
 

jon bones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,024
NYC
Two questions, guys:

1) How is Tabletop Simulator? It seems like the 'go to' place to play board games online, but I'm not sure how DLC works. Are there just a ton of copies of games in the Workshop? How easy is it to find games to play online? I sold a bunch of PUBG clothes, so I could get this for free and try it out. Free refunds are great, but I'm curious what people here think.

2) I am enamored with this big 'mini' push on KS lately, but I haven't committed to one. I think I'm going to wait til that Monolith Batman KS in February - I like the idea of 1v4 games I can "DM" as the villain, teach my friends to play when we can't get a full D&D group together. Based on their older KS, how long do they take to deliver?

 

nicoga3000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,975
Any Heroscape players here? If that counts as a "board game', then it is by far my favorite. My son and I break it out a few times every year and take over the entire table with it. It is such a fun game and even new players can have fun playing the basic style. Years ago we even got the baseball size cards printed up and it is much more manageable now. I am just missing a few..still need to finish the entire collection! Me typing this up got me excited to play again!

I used to play Heroscape ALL the time. I even got big into the solo automata versions. It's too bad the game is no more.
 

PCfromNYC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,332
1) How is Tabletop Simulator? It seems like the 'go to' place to play board games online, but I'm not sure how DLC works. Are there just a ton of copies of games in the Workshop? How easy is it to find games to play online? I sold a bunch of PUBG clothes, so I could get this for free and try it out. Free refunds are great, but I'm curious what people here think.
Workshop stuff is free. DLC is paid stuff. Only DLC game I got for TTS is Superfight.

And yeah, there are multiple copies of games in the workshop. I can tell you there's like 15 Pokemon Master Trainers on there. People upload fanmade and original stuff as well.

As for online games, most games I see seem to be private stuff. Never really played online outside of my circle of friends.
 

Rover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,420
The workshop games are "Free" in the sense that it's essentially game piracy. Our previous thread covered the harmful implications of TTS a bit. I use TTS, so I'm not trying to claim a moral high ground or anything, but I try to only use it to play games I physically own.
 

countblanc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14
Southeast Michigan
Yeah TTS is a bit weird on that front. I don't use it, but I could see the argument that it lets you "try before you buy", and I do appreciate that sort of consumer protection. And I've definitely gone on to buy games I've tried through BGA or other similar sites. But those sites seek permission from the game developers so it's not really comparable on a moral level.

That said the real reason I don't use TTS is because I find manipulating game pieces and cards in the 3D space is just really awkward the vast majority of the time. The interface itself is very much designed for simple games and things like mid-weight euros or bigger ameritrash titles simply have too many components and decks for me to play comfortably. The modules are generally not rules-enforced either which some people care about more than others - technically physical board games aren't rules-enforced either after all - but for me it's a pretty big deal since online play is all about convenience. It's probably easier to handwave away for someone who isn't blessed with reliable ways to play in person.