Is Diane creating Philbert to be a more vulnerable character and people enjoying it to justify their shitty behaviour a metaphor for people watching Bojack Horseman on Netflix and using that to justify their shitty behaviour?
100% definitely this. The same episode has Diane confront Bojack and she pretty much brings up every major shitty thing he has done since the show started just to reinforce the point.
Its amazing to me how many people I've seen come out of the other end of this episode thinking Diane is in the wrong for getting upset with Bojack claiming that he is a bigger victim than Penny or Sarah Lynn.
Is Diane creating Philbert to be a more vulnerable character and people enjoying it to justify their shitty behaviour a metaphor for people watching Bojack Horseman on Netflix and using that to justify their shitty behaviour?
100% definitely this. The same episode has Diane confront Bojack and she pretty much brings up every major shitty thing he has done since the show started just to reinforce the point.
Its amazing to me how many people I've seen come out of the other end of this episode thinking Diane is in the wrong for getting upset with Bojack claiming that he is a bigger victim than Penny or Sarah Lynn.
a commentary on how you get people who going on about how they relate to your Walter Whites, Don Drapers, and Rick Sanchezs as well. The whole idea of the "flawed" character getting a misguided fandom is so common it isn't even funny.
Just finished it. Thought it was decent. But the show feels like its spinning its wheels at this point. I feel like it needs a direction or some sort of end goal, but there isn't. So now its just gonna be us wondering what shitty thing bojacks gonna do next season. And theres not really any other core storyline.
It felt like they were building to something happening to him in seasons 2 and 3 due to his progressively worse behavior, and then maybe they we're hinting at him getting better and redeeming himself in season 4, but now it feels like its none of those things. Just seems like they intend to keep doing the show as long as its making money. I might not even check out season 6 beause its not even interesting seeing bojack do bad stuff anymore. And the storylines following princess Carolyn and diane/Mr peanut butter are getting less and less interesting too. Only one i like is Todd cause of how silly he is, but its a shame they basically didnt give him a single serious moment this season. He usually gets a few.
Its honestly starting to go back to the generic comedy i thought it was in season 1 with some generic storylines that dont go anywhere to make it a bit less episodic. Doesnt have that emotional punch or surprise it used to. No "holy fuck" moment.
Rehabs not gonna work beause theyre gonna make him do something shitty in episode 11 season 6 yet again so who gives a shit about that storyline?
That song in "showstopper" basically directly addressed my problem with the show, we want to be entertained so bojacks gotta do something bad. But its not entertaining anymore because its not going to any goal or purpose. I know real life is like that, and the song even stated it, but real life isnt fun to watch. And this is starting to not be fun either.
There is also more possible meta commentary hidden
Diane was talking to Bojack about how these famous men seem to just continue to fall upwards, even after falling down for a short time. We've kind of seen this with Bojack where he's becoming more and more of a celebrity again with different avenues. Meanwhile, the women just fall. That might be a meta commentary on Diane's possible death, as Bojack is basically being carried by his friends and support system to do better and become better, while Diane is left in her own misery and suffers death.
There is also more possible meta commentary hidden
Diane was talking to Bojack about how these famous men seem to just continue to fall upwards, even after falling down for a short time. We've kind of seen this with Bojack where he's becoming more and more of a celebrity again with different avenues. Meanwhile, the women just fall. That might be a meta commentary on Diane's possible death, as Bojack is basically being carried by his friends and support system to do better and become better, while Diane is left in her own misery and suffers death.
mostly the Princess Diana parallel(she died after crashing in a tunnel, the ending shot of season 5 focused on Diane driving away and entering a tunnel).
As mentioned before, the Princess Diana-Diane connection is kind of unsettling. There's also various different foreshadowing things that have been brought up over the past few pages that could contribute to it
100% definitely this. The same episode has Diane confront Bojack and she pretty much brings up every major shitty thing he has done since the show started just to reinforce the point.
Its amazing to me how many people I've seen come out of the other end of this episode thinking Diane is in the wrong for getting upset with Bojack claiming that he is a bigger victim than Penny or Sarah Lynn.
even Bojack struggles to rationalize being a bigger victim than Penny or Sarah Lynn. The way he avoids eye contact and his poor excuses really hammer it home.
a commentary on how you get people who going on about how they relate to your Walter Whites, Don Drapers, and Rick Sanchezs as well. The whole idea of the "flawed" character getting a misguided fandom is so common it isn't even funny.
Yeah! I noticed that with Breaking Bad! If you come out of that whole thing thinking that Walter White is the good guy, you've probably got some problems. Same thing with Bojack Horseman, with one key difference:
Bojack is consistently shitty throughout the series, but he is also consistently unhappy with his life. Rick Sanchez is an inventor and Walter White is a drug lord and they actively work to seek those goals, but Bojack's goal is to be happy and he consistentlyfucks it up in every single season.
I guess you could call him an anti-hero, but not in the way one would think.
Am I crazy in thinking this is the best role Will Arnett has ever had? I know Gob Bluth is legendary for him but his voice acting in this series is phenomenal.
Am I crazy in thinking this is the best role Will Arnett has ever had? I know Gob Bluth is legendary for him but his voice acting in this series is phenomenal.
I'm not far into this season (I watch 1 a day, I like to savor it, dammit!), but I don't get any of the "wheel spinning" criticisms. That makes sense when talking about dramas that set up some clear conflict or something. What are you waiting for? For Bojack to become a good person? This show has more character development than almost any other show on TV, imo.
A lot of reviewers online have said that it retreads old ground and I'd say that's admittingly true. A lot of subplots happen just for the sake of happening, as much as I enjoy Mr Peanutbutter, Todd and Princes Carolyns stories.
But damn does it nail the main plot of the season. From everything about Philbert to the producer to Diane and Gina and the commentary. It all perfectly wraps together to really show you that Bojack is not someone you should look up to.
I feel like the randomness of the sideplots really takes away from the main story though, and that really lets it down.
Am I crazy in thinking this is the best role Will Arnett has ever had? I know Gob Bluth is legendary for him but his voice acting in this series is phenomenal.
Yeah, she and Todd are equally my top 2. Todd mainly because I get the sense Aaron Paul sounds like he is having a ball being such a doofus with the character.
Now I still relate with Bojack in certain respects, but I still dislike him to a certain extent (more so after this season actually) because he just keeps burying himself in more shit. But it makes the show all the more compelling at the same time.
I dislike most everyone in the main cast. None of them are good people though some are for sure worse. Doesn't make them bad characters either and I do relate to various parts of each of them but I'm not sure I "like" any of them. Even Todd gets to me though he's by and far the most clownish and mostly there for side stories and goofy antics.
I dislike most everyone in the main cast. None of them are good people though some are for sure worse. Doesn't make them bad characters either and I do relate to various parts of each of them but I'm not sure I "like" any of them. Even Todd gets to me though he's by and far the most clownish and mostly there for side stories and goofy antics.
The whole season struck me as a message on how we get stuck in toxic patterns. People can't change because they either don't see their patterns very well (Mr Peanutbutter and Princess Caroline) or do and don't want to change (Bojack). The Halloween episode was the most literal depiction of this.
It's probably cliche to point out Halloween parties are places where you go to in order to be someone else, but in the end a costume still manages to be a representation of who you see yourself to be, even if it's the negative.
And so, for 25 years, Bojack is always getting shitfaced and becoming miserable, only to insist they do it all again next year.
Princess Caroline is always filling her life with work to feel useful and to make some sort of connection with those around her. Even at a party she can't get passed answering the door.
Mr Peanut Butter can't sense his own self destructive patterns in his relationships. He gets close in the 2018 party, even managing to finally synchronise his costume properly with his partner, but we know by the end of the season he's back to his doomed habits.
The only people remotely self aware are Diane, who sees herself in Pickles, and tries to help her even though she knows it's all doomed, and ironically, Todd, who realises there's toxicity in his life and stops going to the party representing the way he realised Bojack was toxic to him and cut him out of his life.
Im not really a fan of Todd, I feel like the schtick has kinda run dry, but I liked the ending to the dildobot story.
But I'd also say Diane is my favorite, she's had it pretty tough and while she can also be pretty shitty she tries really hard to do the right tbing for those around her and ends up getting walked all over.
I like Bojack but I like him as a character. I couldn't see myself being friends or wanting anything to do with him lile I could for Diane for instance. Yeah he can be relatable in that his mistakes and regrets tend to haunt him as I'm sure they do for us all (or at the very least they do for me) he constantly takes things to such an extreme that he's kind of irredeemable at this point.
So much going on in episode 6. Such a deep dive into Bojack and how his upbringing affected him. So much deflection of emotion with humor. Damn what a great episode.
So I just finished Season 5. Loved it. I feel like the writing in the series is kind of in a class of it's own when it comes to adult cartoons.
I do wonder with Diane though
What's going to be her deal come next season? I've always had this theory/head canon that the only thing keeping her together is the fact that she is more "functional" than Bojack. Like how that scene with her therapist choosing Bojack as her patient, and Diane took that as a sign that she's completely in the clear of needing anymore therapy. I just keep getting this feeling that if Bojack were to ever clean up his life, that would be the last catalyst for Diane's downward spiral.
So I just finished Season 5. Loved it. I feel like the writing in the series is kind of in a class of it's own when it comes to adult cartoons.
I do wonder with Diane though
What's going to be her deal come next season? I've always had this theory/head canon that the only thing keeping her together is the fact that she is more "functional" than Bojack. Like how that scene with her therapist choosing Bojack as her patient, and Diane took that as a sign that she's completely in the clear of needing anymore therapy. I just keep getting this feeling that if Bojack were to ever clean up his life, that would be the last catalyst for Diane's downward spiral.
So I just finished Season 5. Loved it. I feel like the writing in the series is kind of in a class of it's own when it comes to adult cartoons.
I do wonder with Diane though
What's going to be her deal come next season? I've always had this theory/head canon that the only thing keeping her together is the fact that she is more "functional" than Bojack. Like how that scene with her therapist choosing Bojack as her patient, and Diane took that as a sign that she's completely in the clear of needing anymore therapy. I just keep getting this feeling that if Bojack were to ever clean up his life, that would be the last catalyst for Diane's downward spiral.
Everyone talking about Diane possibly dying and my initial takeaway from the season ending was "Oh no, they're both going to fuck up and get together by the end of next season"
Does anyone else never skip the opening credits? It's so mesmerizing and the music is so good and I love the little changes. It just sets the tone for the show so well.
Does anyone else never skip the opening credits? It's so mesmerizing and the music is so good and I love the little changes. It just sets the tone for the show so well.
I loved the season and am gonna do another play through of it soon. This is one of the shows I really enjoy having captions on to catch the quick jabs.
I also get the people that say they relate to Bojack, but mostly in the way of pondering regrets too much. He is leagues above what I'd imagine most people would do or get away with.
Finished the season. Just pure quality all the way through yet again. I don't know if I liked it more than last season. Honestly, this show is one of the few things I don't bother to rank, I just enjoy what I'm given. What I do know however is that Episode 6 is hands-down one of the best episodes in the entire show. This was also probably Diane's strongest season yet.
Can't say I agree with the wheel-spinning criticisms though, but I suppose it'd be for the best to wrap it up in one or two more seasons.
And regarding the theory:
Uh, holy fuck. I too felt that it felt weirdly anti-climatic and even a bit ominous the way she drove into the tunnel, so to hear that she might get in an accident... Yeesh.
Dunno if they'll go that route, or if I even want that, not to mention the entirely valid fridging concerns, but that is certainly something to stew over as we wait for the next season.
For all the people talking "Princess Diane".... how would the timeline on that work exactly?? I know BoJack's a bit messed up with the order of things happening, but I thought everything after his big trip was in order.
