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He NEEDS to run this back. If he can't beat this guy, he'll have to make major changes to everything.
Wouldn't say he'd be done though. Wlad had multiple setbacks like this and got better.
The problem is the holes in AJ's game have been blatant for all to see for at least two years at this point, and well, you can't condition your chin but it actually seems like his gas tank has deteriorated, not improved.
I don't think AJ has a choice but to take a rematch, but I wouldn't be so sure of the result. I don't think this was a straight up fluke. AJ looked like had no idea how to handle a fast, compact fighter. He was on his bicycle from the outset, his hands were low, he was letting Ruiz come in at will. Im just not sure AJ has it in him to make the necessary adjustments. It could just be a terrible matchup. I think the biggest loss for AJ, rematch or no, coming out of this is I don't think there is any way anybody believes he can beat either Wilder or Fury.
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Totally agree. But again, Wlad was exactly the same way. Exact same suspect chin and gas tank and was able to fix it.
Only problem is there wasn't a killer like Wilder back then. lol
Wlad dominated behind a monstrous jab though. AJ doesn't appear to know how to throw one. That's like night and day.
You're right here. Ortiz would have won this fight. I was wrong in this case lol.
Not that I am some delusional AJ fan or anything. I did think he was the worst of the top 3. But I didn't think he was this bad. This was bad. Like, I am shook. The fight was so amazing though. Love seeing AJ getting beaten by a short, fat mexican.
He has been exposed. The chin does not hold up at this level. He is going to have problems now because future opponents know to move forward and tag him as much as possible. I am seriously shocked, and you're not going to tell me you aren't too. This was just an awful performance beyond anyone could imagine.
We were arguing about 50/50 splits earlier. Now it looks like AJ is the 40% side lmao.
I am still hyped from this. I just cannot believe what i have seen. Just so good.
After losing to that scrub AJ should be begging Wilder to fight now. He needs to redeem himself
An AJ loss has been coming for a while now with how poor he has looked in recent fights but I didn't expect it to come tonight.
Wilder is fighting Fury after Ortiz, and if he beats Fury he's commanding 60% of the purse even if AJ wins a rematch with Ruiz
Calling Ruiz a scrub is abit much. He is a good fighter and world level. Wilder knocks him out in 8 for sure, but Ruiz is a great fighter and deserves credit for beating a good fighter in AJ. He worked hard to build himself back up after the close Parker loss and deserves credit. This is not a case of he has beat AJ to prove he is good, Ruiz has always been a very good fighter. He has just been very lowkey.
Wilder got the leverage now. He's the A-side should be handle his business.
Ruiz should get his due. Dude looked good. He did not get lucky.
Can't help but remember Klitschko dropping AJ but then he took his foot off the pedal and tried to just cruise to a decision. Andy did not let up and finished the job. Now he's the champ.
Ruiz should get his due. Dude looked good. He did not get lucky.
Can't help but remember Klitschko dropping AJ but then he took his foot off the pedal and tried to just cruise to a decision. Andy did not let up and finished the job. Now he's the champ.
I think his jab is solid. He kept Parker at arm's length all night, but a Wladimir jab it isn't. AJ needs a safety first fighting style I think. The similarities to Wlad's early career losses were staggering. AJ completely falters when he gets hit and he seems to have a tough time recovering. He did so against an ancient Wlad, but a younger fighter who doesn't let go will exploit that. And frankly, his legs looked like Amir Khan's at times. He couldn't take a shot for shit.
AJ would be best off if he turned into a boring fighter to be honest.
Which is why that fight in 2020 is gonna be huge assuming they don't get beaten in their next fights
He might have to.
Starting to look like a fighter with doubt in his mind, and one that doesn't like to get hit. Guys are going to come at him with more confidence now.
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He has always taken a lot more damage than elite heavyweights should, and even though people say he has a 'glass chin', I actually think he's done very well to hold up against some of the sloggers he's fought. I mean, he got knocked down by Wlad and fought on the full 12 rounds and finished him.
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Can you imagine AJ taking these sorts of shots from Wilder? 😂
Ruiz is not a scrub, people have to stop disrespecting him. It's clear you guys don't watch boxing normally and only when big things happen.
Head trauma.
To be fair, even regular boxing viewers weren't giving him a chance. Experts, pros/former pros weren't really giving him a chance. Bookies don't like losing money and they were giving silly odds on a Ruiz win. It's the nature of an upset.
In hindsight, I should have put more respect on him, I saw how well he did against Parker (someone AJ couldn't put away).
No arguments there. But when people only talk about Wilder, AJ, and Fury as being a class above everyone in heavyweights, then you see this guy who looks out of shape take out one of the big 3, it seems like a major upset. I didn't literally mean he was a scrub, it was more of a knock on AJ to lose to a guy not named Wilder or Fury
Don't even worry about it... You could easily watch boxing every week and never noticed Andy Ruiz before he got the fight with Joshua (guilty as charged.) He's no scrub, but going down the pecking order, Joshua had no business even fighting him in the first place. For AJ to lose to him is nothing short of an embarrassment, harsh as it may sound.
Had it been Luis Ortiz that did this to him, it wouldn't be so devastating to his image.
You never even heard of Ruiz from the Parker fight? He is well known enough to UK fans because they would have known him from looking up Parker back when AJ fought him.
Whilst it is absolutely embarrassing for AJ to lose in the way he did, let's not act like Ruiz didn't deserve to be in the ring with him. Ruiz has always been top 10, but it might just be he is way better than we thought. He could beat Ortiz. I am certainly not confident AJ can beat him in the rematch after seeing how much he dominated AJ.
I have to see AJ lose the rematch just to see where he goes or what he does after. It would just be crazy to see him become another David Price from this loss. Let's not pretend AJ is suddenly some bum. He's not. He has some amazing wins on his record. The question is if that fighter is now gone after this loss. This loss could be enough to destroy his spirit and confidence.
If there is anything to learn from this, it is that these mid level fighters like Parker, Ruiz, Povetkin or Whyte are way better than people give them credit for. And you seem to be falling into that same narrative that unless it is the top 4, everyone is a bum. You seem to be suggesting it is either Wilder, Fury or Ortiz or you are fighting a bum.
I'm in the US. Even a Parker level heavyweight barely gets coverage. If you weren't a regular on HBO, Showtime, have been in the ring with one of the big names, or don't have a story or personality that stands out in some way, it's easy to miss you. Like you said, a lot of UK fans only knew Parker from looking him up when he fought AJ. Parker fought Ruiz before fighting AJ. At the time Parker fought Ruiz, both of them were relatively unknown on our national stage.
Ruiz proved he deserved to be in the ring with AJ. But he was far, far down the line in contenders AJ should've been fighting. Granted, he was a replacement, but as we were going back and forth weeks ago, remember I felt that he should've been fighting Ortiz in the first place. AJ was overdue for a big fight, so I didn't even think he should've been fighting Miller at this time. Miller, who was starting to carve out a name for himself in the US scene, and who I know pretty well since he fights out of the same city I was born (where Joshua might never fight again lol) and also happens to be of the same heritage.
The Wlad era was so bad it still blows my mind. Wlad would have lost earlier had there been a Wilder or Fury caliber opponent available.
Final round questions make it sound like he's not even in the fight.
All the same, post fight he states there was nothing wrong with him so idk. That corner talk gets real fucking strange.
Ruiz brought the fucking fight. Look at the knockdowns. When Ruiz when down, it didn't even look like it was more than poor stance on his part, getting caught and falling back, tracked AJ the entire way down. Joshua in turn looked like he got fucking rocked in that subsequent ko and was absolutely wobbly the rest of the fight, never recovered. Great handspeed from Ruiz, great movement, dude kept it tight inside and made that shit hurt when he stepped in.
That said, imagine if AJ gets rocked a second time, basically sends that mans career to the shadow realm. Ruiz is getting so much shit online its disgusting. Literally sitting with all my tios watching the fight and they were fucking going off, might as well have been a Canelo fight.
All the same, post fight he states there was nothing wrong with him so idk. That corner talk gets real fucking strange.
Ruiz brought the fucking fight. Look at the knockdowns. When Ruiz when down, it didn't even look like it was more than poor stance on his part, getting caught and falling back, tracked AJ the entire way down. Joshua in turn looked like he got fucking rocked in that subsequent ko and was absolutely wobbly the rest of the fight, never recovered. Great handspeed from Ruiz, great movement, dude kept it tight inside and made that shit hurt when he stepped in.
That said, imagine if AJ gets rocked a second time, basically sends that mans career to the shadow realm. Ruiz is getting so much shit online its disgusting. Literally sitting with all my tios watching the fight and they were fucking going off, might as well have been a Canelo fight.
Why was Joshua's dad going after Hearn? Joshua had to stop him laying hands on him, lol.
Something must have happened in the build up that they're covering up. Talksport radio said he was knocked out cold and concussed by sparring partner Joey Dawejko weeks before the fight.
Great fight by Ruiz though, totally beat his ass and secured his and his family's future with that rematch, I think it was Whyte who said the contract had a 50/50 rematch clause in it, so the guy is going to rake in some serious coin.
Something must have happened in the build up that they're covering up. Talksport radio said he was knocked out cold and concussed by sparring partner Joey Dawejko weeks before the fight.
Great fight by Ruiz though, totally beat his ass and secured his and his family's future with that rematch, I think it was Whyte who said the contract had a 50/50 rematch clause in it, so the guy is going to rake in some serious coin.
If AJ takes that rematch and Ruiz wipes the floor with him, Ruiz is literally going to get catapulted into Mexican stardom like nothing else. Hell I'd argue there's a contingent of marketing trying to put him through the fucking PR car wash right now.
In the meantime we got clownshoes all over the place shitting on Ruiz.
In the meantime we got clownshoes all over the place shitting on Ruiz.
I don't agree he was far down. Outside of the top 3, who is there? Is Whyte good enough? Who else? You seem to just only look at the top 3. Who is worthy outside of the top 3? Name some.
It should have absolutely been Ortiz instead of Miller. I agreed. It is just that Hearn was trying to help his mans out and get him the title shot. He did try and get Ortiz after that but you still deny that even though the proof is there.
That's exactly it... Joshua should've been fighting one of the top 3. If it were just one guy, okay, but was it really too much to ask to get him in the ring with any one of three different fighters? None of the other fights had any intrigue whatsoever as the top guys together had already cleaned out and separated themselves from the rest of the division.
Miller's pretty good, but I don't see elite potential in him. One up and comer that's loaded with potential is Ajagba, but he's not ready yet.
Doesn't matter how much he talks, no one wants to see Dillian Whyte right now. At least not in the US.
But he tried to fight Ortiz. I have linked you this before. I have sourced, but you refuse to acknowledge it. AJ wanted Ortiz. I believe Ortiz would have beat AJ on Saturday, but AJ did not believe that going into the fight. AJ fully believed he was number 1 and would beat the top 3. Him losing does not change the fact and mean he was ducking any of those guys. It just means he is not as good as he and many people thought.
Do you just look at the top 3 and think they should all be fighting each other over and over? Is Parker not a decent opponent? Is Povetkin not decent? These are two very good fighters, including one who has already beat Ruiz, and you are just trivializing them as bums or something. Put both of those guy on Fury and Wilder's records, and they would both be top 3 wins. But to you they are just nobodies. What does that mean for Wilder and Fury's records?
We've run in circles over those Ortiz negotiations. I'm done with it.
Parker and Povetkin are decent opponents, but folks were tired of seeing Joshua against 'decent' opponents he's fully expected to beat. Those aren't must see fights. Those guys are just buildups to the fights that people want to see. Like Breazeale was too.
Wilder can't get Joshua in the ring, but at least he's taking fun fights in the meantime. Ortiz is still an interesting matchup for the fans, and Fury is a must see fight.
The top guys need to fight each other. By the time that's all sorted out, other challengers will be ready. That's how it's supposed to work.
Joshua really dropped the ball though. A fight with Wilder now will never quite be what it could've been.
Why do you not believe AJ wanted Ortiz? Why are you refusing to acknowledge it when it is clearly true. You are literally the only person I have seen deny this. It is just universally accepted to be a fact at this point. AJ wanted Ortiz. Ortiz's team messed up and did not get the fight through their own fault.
Parker was a unification and Povetkin was mandatory. What's the issue? Ignore the unification and mandatories? Both good fights and both are important in gaining and holding onto belts. I don't understand this at all. Surely a unification is important in bringing all the belts to Wilder?
is Wilder/Ortiz really that interesting? It is a decent fight but nothing amazing. I would have preferred if he pursued the AJ fight. Of course that would have been the wrong move in hindsight due to the loss, but at the time, I wanted him to go into negotiations with AJ and sort that fight out. The Ortiz rematch was a disappointment. And I am not 100% sure on whether Ortiz is still good or not. He hasn't had a good performance since the Wilder fight. Regardless, I do respect that Wilder has taken a decent fight before the Fury one whilst Fury is fighting nobodies. Fury actually needs to get more criticism for his opponents. Whilst Wilder is fighting a decent fighter in Ortiz, Fury is fighting literal nobodies who stand no chance at all. Basically journeymen tier opposition.
I told you about a dozen times already that Hearn was never going to let Ortiz in the ring with Joshua. That no offer was going to be made in good faith. I've suggested that here before, and only you and some other guy that disappeared since Joshua's upset really had a problem seeing why someone would believe that.
The belts are nothing more than a marketing tool. Everyone knows who the top dogs are, but most couldn't tell you who holds what.
Wilder/Ortiz is interesting because it's a fight Wilder can lose. I think he'll win, probably quicker this time, but it wouldn't be a shocker to see Ortiz beat him. Ortiz almost had him last time and was probably up on points until the last round.
I have literally sourced you Luis Ortiz's manager saying it was his side that dropped the ball and it was Ortiz's promoter that messed up talks by trying to get more than $7 million. This is a FACT. This is not a debate here. This is a fact that you need to accept. Hearn offered Luis Ortiz $7 million and was denied. THIS IS A FACT. FACT. Accept it and move on. Your argument is based on your own biases rather than facts. You are again falling into another narrative that whatever Hearn says is wrong. It's clouding your judgement. Ortiz's team knew they had the Wilder fight to fall back on so did not take the negotiations seriously enough and tried to get mad money.
The belts are a marketing tool, yes. What's the issue? I don't get it? The belts make more money for the fighters due to more interest in a unification of the division. It makes the fight worth more money. The boxers want this. Wilder wants all the belts. A casual not knowing who holds what is irrelevant. Wilder's aim is to get all belts. Same as AJ.
Ortiz was not up on points, but yes, he should have been. Wilder was winning on all three cards I believe. The first fight was amazing and Ortiz did very well. I am unsure if he can repeat that. I don't know. It is an interesting fight, but it is not an amazing fight or anything. I will watch it.