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Brad Wardell of Stardock is making legal trouble for the original creators of Star Control (settled)
- Thread starter Hollywood Duo
- Start date
So Greg Johnson is the creator of Toejam and Earl and Starflight (big influence on Star Control) and helped with SC1/2. Amusingly, he posted on Stardock's forum saying politely "um, I was there, I did work for them and yes, they did in fact create it."
In response to this article written in November on SC2's 25th anniversary (which in retrospect looks like an attempt to minimize Fred and Paul's contributions as they gear up for litigation):
https://forums.starcontrol.com/485810/star-control-ii-25th-anniversary---on-the-shoulders-of-giants
In response to this article written in November on SC2's 25th anniversary (which in retrospect looks like an attempt to minimize Fred and Paul's contributions as they gear up for litigation):
https://forums.starcontrol.com/485810/star-control-ii-25th-anniversary---on-the-shoulders-of-giants
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There is no way this argument can win. The legal president this would set would invalidate any project holdings that are non single party works (ie unless a single person worked on it's not really theirs). You would never ever be able to contract or outsource anything again which obviously isn't viable.
Everyone I think pretty much knew most of that, but having it in writing from someone who was there and doesn't have any skin in the game just makes Wardell look like a sociopath. Good to know though which of them was skilled in which part of the creative process, I honestly had no idea!
That article on the 25th anniversary of SC2 does seem like it was written almost as a basis to be used in some kind of legal shenanigans in the future. Basically makes no mention of Reiche or Ford.
Great that this ownership dispute will make it clear that Paul and Fred own Star Control and Brad Wardell owns himself.
Man I hope so but Wardell always finds a way to be a total shit in the end (i.e. the sexual harassment suit.)
I just wanted you to know that this is now my go-to snarky comment about ownership disputes. So good.
It sounds like it. Seems that the rights reverted to Reiche in 2001 or something?
Either way, I don't think anyone is on Stardock's/Wardell's side.
I know Stardock are trying to protect what they think it's right, but they and Bradwell are acting like assholes again for I don't know how many times already.
What could be a "normal" IP dispute Bradwell is trying to muddy it and his rivals once again. Also this allegation:
Is one of the most deluded things I have read in a while, like if you could control who the fans want to support just because.
What could be a "normal" IP dispute Bradwell is trying to muddy it and his rivals once again. Also this allegation:
- That Stardock, by virtue of owning the "Star Control" trademark, is due all of the "fame, reputation, and goodwill" directed by fans toward the Star Control games
Is one of the most deluded things I have read in a while, like if you could control who the fans want to support just because.
I remember tweeting out to my friends on Twitter (where I have less than 400 followers) not to buy GalCiv 3, which would directly support Stardock and Wardell.
Cue Wardell, who I didn't mention in said tweet, quoting my tweet and opening my mentions to be flooded by legions of scum-sucking gators. It seems on the day of his game's release, he was searching Twitter for any mentions of his game being bashed and sending those gnats he calls "fans" out to harass said people.
Stardock is full of scum, Wardell chief among them. He's happy to participate in targeted harassment by putting a bullseye on a person speaking against him. It's a classic gator tactic that allows you to easily deny responsibility. Just about anything that has to do with this slimy bastard is bound to be vile, with him being completely to blame.
Cue Wardell, who I didn't mention in said tweet, quoting my tweet and opening my mentions to be flooded by legions of scum-sucking gators. It seems on the day of his game's release, he was searching Twitter for any mentions of his game being bashed and sending those gnats he calls "fans" out to harass said people.
Stardock is full of scum, Wardell chief among them. He's happy to participate in targeted harassment by putting a bullseye on a person speaking against him. It's a classic gator tactic that allows you to easily deny responsibility. Just about anything that has to do with this slimy bastard is bound to be vile, with him being completely to blame.
Yeah, that's what I meant. English is not my first language, but thanks for correcting me - The only way to learn.
So Wardell posted this on another forum (QT3) where he's playing the victim. Can anyone with a little more expertise in trademarks tell me if this is like, technically defensible at all (regardless of whether it's ethical, just in legal terms) or is it as ridiculous as it sounds?
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uhhhh pretty sure trademark ownership doesn't confer ownership rights on assets - trademark ownership is just about being able to use the trademarked symbol/identifier... and i doubt it applies retroactively... been a while since I did IP law though and I'm not in the right jurisdiction...
That's what I always thought. Wardell seems to be saying "actually, this is a common misunderstanding and it gives more legal rights than that." It sure sounds fishy, but not a lawyer.
Wardell Updated the quartertothree forums with some new pics
https://forum.quartertothree.com/t/...and-is-planning-an-xcom-like-reboot/73054/655
Plus, you get gems likes this from Wardell:
https://forum.quartertothree.com/t/...and-is-planning-an-xcom-like-reboot/73054/655
Plus, you get gems likes this from Wardell:
Sorry to pile on, but Star Control 2 used procedural generation to create star systems. It's kind of in the DNA of the game. What does Stardock Control use it for? Haven't really kept up with development on account of it being Stardock.
If it did, it was just for the resource mining planets and such. I could find my way around very easily on any playthrough because everything was largely in the same part of the galaxy with largely the same stuff (unless there were subtle changed I never noticed.)
I wouldn't say procedural generation was the big thing about Star Control 2. What made the space exploration so good in that game wasn't the procedural stuff, it was that the galaxy felt packed with had-crafted content.
I remember reading a couple of previews implying proceduraly generated content is going be much more prominent in Origins.
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Most planets and star systems in SC2 were procedurally generated, but only once - it didn't change from game to game.
The starmap layout was by hand though.
The starmap layout was by hand though.
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Found where I read it - In the Ars Technica article Wardell says:
Depending on the size of the universe, 10 percent could be a lot of hand-crafted stuff - But the emphasis on it just doesn't feel like it carries the DNA of the series for me.
Email chain from Reiche and Ford with GOG and Atari which I'm guessing they put up to show proof of ownership.
https://www.dogarandkazon.com/blog/2018/2/27/report-from-planet-surface
https://www.dogarandkazon.com/blog/2018/2/27/report-from-planet-surface
Pretty interesting read. Cool to see the behind the scenes stuff of how the games ended up on GOG.
Hope Wardell loses this one hard. Was a gigantic asshole even before he exposed himself as a Gater, became an ascended asshole after that, very much one of those "if I don't win, then I'm burning the house down that we're all standing in" types.
That is a really interesting read! Also kind of weird to see them mention Skylanders back then as an off-the-cuff remark, before it became a multi-million dollar thing.
Definitely sounds like they own everything necessary, and it was Atari that fucked up in selling the rights to Stardock. But also Stardock being shit for saying Paul and Fred had fuck-all to do with development. Nice try, fuckwits.
So in other news, Stardock has been trying to grab the trademark to Ur-quan Masters and F&P filed for it presumably in response. Oddly, Stardock's legal team didn't sign their application.
http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=8...TION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch
http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=8...TION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch
Wardell has posted an explanation of why they're doing this on the forums - they just want to protect the community and help them with other open-source projects. It seems like pretty nonsensical PR:
http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=8...TION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch
http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=8...TION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch
Wardell has posted an explanation of why they're doing this on the forums - they just want to protect the community and help them with other open-source projects. It seems like pretty nonsensical PR:
Good question.
So, the concern is the future of the UQM. Our long-term goal is for the UQM community to be set up as an independent, open-source destination for creating stories without interference. If that's for Star Control, great. If it's for Ghosts of the Precursors, that's fine too. What we don't want is a scenario where Star Control is legally blocked by an external trademark source enforcing their rights.
I am here. If Stardock does something bad, there's someone you can yell at.
My opinion is that open-source modding is the future. I don't mean tomorrow or next year. But in a few years, modding as we know it today will be a much bigger deal. And open-source is the future of that.
We want a destination to release the Star Control III source code (for example). We want to make source code for parts of Star Control: Origins.
Paul Reiche shuts down all attempted mods for Ur-Quan Masters with his legal authority of his copyright claim. Brad needs to liberate it from the clutches of a tyrant!
Oh wait, no he didn't
http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/List_of_The_Ur-Quan_Masters_Mods
Oh wait, no he didn't
http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/List_of_The_Ur-Quan_Masters_Mods
I don't think I've ever seen someone burn through so much goodwill so fast with the people who were most likely to buy a game. Well, at least I know to never buy anything Stardock makes for sure now.
Anyone familiar with the Star Control community, and its modding/remastering attempts knows that the info above from Brad Wardell is a load of crap.
Reiche and Ford have actually spoken fondly about modding attempts, and how appreciative they are that people play their games after all these years.
Nothing new from Brad Wardell, considering what he has done, and said in the past, in any of the multiple questions that come up regarding Stardock and its CEO, be it issues with the treatment of their staff, issues with support for their games, and more.
I've spent some time in the Star Control community. From what I've seen, most people were neutral to cautiously positive on Stardock. There were some concerns about Wardell's personality, but even so people were generally hopeful that Stardock's project would turn out well (I was). Wardell had the fans' good will and torched it, except for some in SD's inner circle.
Gotta give it to him though - he sure knows how to do PR.
Gotta give it to him though - he sure knows how to do PR.
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I remember when Stardock was held in pretty high esteem by the PC gaming community. They fell pretty quickly once it was made public their CEO was an assclown. Looks like little has changed.
That's only if you'd not heard of Wardell's pro-GG stance or his "gamer's manifesto" (that Stardock doesn't actually abide). At the start of this I believe Stardock/Wardell had very little (if any) goodwill at all.
Wardell's posts on QT3 are hilariously disingenuous. Selective replies and acting like he has no control over what the legal team of his company says and does. If you didn't know who he was you'd assume he was just a low-level Stardock employee going by his responses.
Wardell really knows how to do the PR tapdance, but after a while it becomes pretty obvious what he's doing.
They say the biggest problem is that Fred and Paul called their game a "sequel to Star Control 2" and used SC2 box art, which creates confusion when they own the trademark. So for the sake of argument, let's say the trademark didn't expire under Atari and set aside the question of whether the "sequel" line it's fair use of the trademark aside (I'm not a lawyer and can't give a certain answer on either of these things). Well, Fred and Paul have in fact removed that phrasing and art from their website.
So if they've already addressed Stardock's primary issue, why is Stardock still infringing their copyright by selling their games if Stardock are the Reasonable and Peaceful Victims? Stardock has also repeatedly told the public that they have an unlimited license to do whatever they want with Fred and Paul's IP if they really wanted to. And then absurdly suggesting they didn't create the games and had only a minor role in their development. If we grant that Fred and Paul overstepped the trademark boundaries at a couple of points, Stardock's copyright violations and dishonest statements of their IP rights are clearly far more flagrant, continuous, and malicious.
Wardell says that the old games aren't actually that big a deal to him. So why are they still up, and why did they insist on taking control of a well-established GOG deal?
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Ugh, Brad made a "Q&A" page to answer all the questions about why he is the good guy and Paul and Fred are a bunch of shady characters who want to undermine Star Control
Q: Why did Stardock trademark Ur-Quan Masters?
A: Our actions continue to be in the interest of protecting Star Control and our ability to create and share more Star Control assets to the community in the future (including releasing the source code of Star Control III, which we own, as well as future Star Control Origins and content) without fear that Paul and Fred would claim that we are creating "confusion" by doing so. As background: Stardock always had the common law trademark to Ur-Quan Masters. It's the sub-title to Star Control II after all and was, by Paul and Fred's admission, available in commerce on GOG even before Stardock was involved.
Q: Why did Stardock trademark Ur-Quan Masters?
A: Our actions continue to be in the interest of protecting Star Control and our ability to create and share more Star Control assets to the community in the future (including releasing the source code of Star Control III, which we own, as well as future Star Control Origins and content) without fear that Paul and Fred would claim that we are creating "confusion" by doing so. As background: Stardock always had the common law trademark to Ur-Quan Masters. It's the sub-title to Star Control II after all and was, by Paul and Fred's admission, available in commerce on GOG even before Stardock was involved.
seems like a problem for the courts
what atari did or didn't have the rights to sell and what stardock actually purchased seems pretty complicated
lawyers often misrepresent the truth in order to win a case. their positions are often unrelated to what the companies actually think. i wouldn't read too much into it
what atari did or didn't have the rights to sell and what stardock actually purchased seems pretty complicated
lawyers often misrepresent the truth in order to win a case. their positions are often unrelated to what the companies actually think. i wouldn't read too much into it
I hope not, because I couldn't see Reiche and Ford wanting to put up the legal fees for a court battle. I could see Wardell being that pigheaded though.
In a more happy aspect of this legal battle Reiche and Ford are going to start putting up sketchbooks of design documents. This stuff is super interesting to look at like this one that basically outlines Star Control 2's opening.
https://www.dogarandkazon.com/blog/2018/3/8/all-aboard-the-starship-discovery
https://www.dogarandkazon.com/blog/2018/3/8/all-aboard-the-starship-discovery
https://www.dogarandkazon.com/blog/2018/3/18/strange-settlement-on-an-alien-planet
New update from Paul and Fred detailing the recent 'settlement' offered by Stardock and the aggressive grab for the rights to aliens and stuff. It's predictably gross.
New update from Paul and Fred detailing the recent 'settlement' offered by Stardock and the aggressive grab for the rights to aliens and stuff. It's predictably gross.
That's so insane. This really needs to get some wider coverage.
