Brandon Sanderson's Cosmere |OT| Journey Before Destination

Wowfunhappy

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Oct 27, 2017
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Now looking at a lot of reactions and seeing podcasts and stuff just about The Way of Kings, I'm shocked so many people seemed to actually hate the Shallan/Jasnah chapters. Most of this book I preferred her chapters over Kaladin's, except where Kabsal was more present, wasn't a fan of his character. Then later on when we got to know the bridgemen more and learned more about the world through them my preference in chapters change, but I'm still shocked so many people seemed to dislike the Shallan chapters.
Yeah, I don't know why a lot of people dislike Shallan. Her plot line in WoK is pretty boring early on, but so are the other early chapters.

As of Oathbringer, Shallan might be my favorite character.
 

RepairmanJack

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Oct 27, 2017
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Yeah, I don't know why a lot of people dislike Shallan. Her plot line in WoK is pretty boring early on, but so are the other early chapters.

As of Oathbringer, Shallan might be my favorite character.
I kind of wonder if it's because it gives a different type of worldbuilding than Sanderson usually gives. It's almost like Eland in Mystborn. Where Kaladin is giving us the worldbuilding on the different cultures, the magic systems, the war as a whole. But Shallan is giving us the world building view of what the regular Light Eye's life deals with at least on a small scale as it leads her to such big things. She's seen as inappropriate, she was basically locked away in her house until her family put it on her shoulders to get them out of trouble. We get a look at the ward/apprentice life of someone that should mostly be just a normal lighteyes.

Give me a POV of one of Adolin's girls he's courting, I'll take more of the minor lighteye's stuff.
 

jimtothehum

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Mar 23, 2018
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Yeah, I don't know why a lot of people dislike Shallan. Her plot line in WoK is pretty boring early on, but so are the other early chapters.

As of Oathbringer, Shallan might be my favorite character.

I find her annoying, even though her plot line is getting interesting, and it really comes down to this- It's every time she is supposedly "witty". I find Sanderson's attempts to portray her wit fall so flat that I groan every time she fires off some lame quip to another character. For a character to display wit, you have to give them something clever to say. Nothing she says I find to be particularly clever.
 

RepairmanJack

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Oct 27, 2017
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Finished Warbreaker. Probably some of my favorite characters Sanderson has written, but I'm not a huge fan of the story. Felt pretty simple for the most part and then what twists and turns there were didn't feel very earned or fleshed out before the fact. Which ended up making the last quarter or so feel rushed. This seemed like it was possibly planned out to be more than one book, or it just got to a point and realized it needed wrapped up. Either way it just seemed to be a rushed ending. So much so that the 'villains' basically sit and explain every aspect of their plans and how some stuff went wrong and what was confused by the main characters.
 

B.K.

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Oct 31, 2017
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I'm nearing the end of Words of Radiance. Is there anything I need to read after it and before Oathbringer?
 

Faiz

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Oct 26, 2017
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Ok I’ll volunteer to be the hardline guy and say you need to read both Warbreaker and Edgedancer (AKA Stormlight book 2.5) hahah.

Seriously though: Warbreaker is not essential to Stormlight but it’s a good book and you will get more out of certain parts of Oathbringer. Edgedancer is a novella so it’s relatively short and it directly bridges the gap for certain background characters between books 2 and 3, so I would absolutely without reservation say to read it first.
 

RepairmanJack

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Oct 27, 2017
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Having just finished Warbreaker and in the middle of Words of Radiance, I would definitely recommend Warbreaker. Just for the characters and Nightblood alone.
 

B.K.

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Oct 31, 2017
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I read Warbreaker back around Christmas when I was laid up from surgery. I'm assuming that
Zahel is Vasher.
 

RepairmanJack

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Oct 27, 2017
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I'm about 60-70% through Words of Radiance, and there are so many moments in this book so far where I've audibly said "Fuck off!" or yelled.

The death at the beginning, I refuse to believe it!
Shallan seeing her brothers Shardblade!
Szeth!
Amaram, that fuck! When he's given that title
 

RepairmanJack

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Oct 27, 2017
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Finished Words of Radiance. I loved the character interactions and how dark Words went, but I think overall I liked Way of Kings slightly more. Mainly because I feel like most of the big reveals or happenings in Words were just a little too telegraphed. I feel like the light hints were just a bit too heavy handed.

Also read Edgedancer. Really good and fun but I feel like the change of character for someone near the end just feels way too similar to the change of character at the end of Words of Radiance for a different character. Just seemed a little hand wavey, when seeing Brandon talk about the reasons for Edgedancer in the first place before Oathbringer.
 

Rand a. Thor

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Oct 31, 2017
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Greece
After hearing so many good words about Sanderson's works and my country finally importing English copies, the crappy Gollanz edition unfortunately, I bought the entirety of Way of Kings.
After being thoroughly beaten to death by boredom during Part 1 and not understanding the high praise, Part 2 has me cackling like a madman. I'm not saying it didn't start off good, Sanderson had me invested in the characters from the start, but it just felt trite and predictable. Still is sort of, Sadeas betrayingv Dalinar was about as surprising as lightning following a clap of thunder, but good lord is that Part 2 thrilling. Not entirely done yet, but I just had to come in hear cause I loved what I just read. Dalinar going up to the King and bitch slapping his immature ass for staging an assassination against himself came out of nowhere and I love how we are finally seeing some proper politics being thrown in to this confusing mess of Surgebinging, Stormlight, and the end of the world.
 
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Jest

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Oct 28, 2017
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I figured the book is old enough for open spoilers, I fixed it immediately.
You're certainly not wrong in terms of how long the books have been available, however for this thread we want it to be welcoming to newcomers to Sanderson and his Cosmere. So the policy is spoilers for all of the Cosmere books. Happy to hear that the you're finding the second half of the book an adequate payoff. A slow burn first half that primarily establishes world building with a wild ride of a second half is the most iconic part of Sanderson's writing style. So if you can enjoy it, then You'll likely enjoy the majority of his books.
 

RepairmanJack

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Oct 27, 2017
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Just hit a part in Oathbringer that made me have to immediately go back and read the prologue of Way of Kings with whole new context, and I still don't have the full picture.

Also, I will never understand the hate Shallan gets. Probably my favorite main character.

A certain king would probably be my most interesting and favorite character in the series as a whole though.
 

Rand a. Thor

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Oct 31, 2017
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Greece
You're certainly not wrong in terms of how long the books have been available, however for this thread we want it to be welcoming to newcomers to Sanderson and his Cosmere. So the policy is spoilers for all of the Cosmere books. Happy to hear that the you're finding the second half of the book an adequate payoff. A slow burn first half that primarily establishes world building with a wild ride of a second half is the most iconic part of Sanderson's writing style. So if you can enjoy it, then You'll likely enjoy the majority of his books.
Its also giving me a reason to finally get Knife of Dreams finished in the Wheel of Time, TGS/TOM/AMOL must be one hell of a ride and a proper send off to Robert Jordan's work going by his writing style in these two books. I was slightly worried, but now I'm brimming with excitement.
 

Lichtsang

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Jan 2, 2018
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I'm reading the first half of Oathbreaker right now (In German each book of the Stormlight Archive is split into two); it's been ages since I read Warbreaker, but I read ITT that it's a good idea to read before Stormlight Archive? Can someone explain why? I loved Warbreaker, but can not remember the connections.
 

H.Cornerstone

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Oct 27, 2017
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I'm reading the first half of Oathbreaker right now (In German each book of the Stormlight Archive is split into two); it's been ages since I read Warbreaker, but I read ITT that it's a good idea to read before Stormlight Archive? Can someone explain why? I loved Warbreaker, but can not remember the connections.
Night blood, Zahel and another character from Warbreaker is in Oathbringer
 

RepairmanJack

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Oct 27, 2017
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Finished Oathbringer.

I like it a little less than the other two. It was a great culmination and had some good payoff. Part 5 may be the most intense non stop reading I've had in a long time. But the build up to get there was a bit of a slog.

The first two parts I was completely disappointed in because it seemed to take everything I came to love in WoR and push it to the side. I fell in love with the dynamic between Adolin/Shallan/Kaladin and instantly Kaladin is gone to Alethkar, and Adolin was basically pushed to just some sword lessens.

The comeback of Jasnah felt very anticlimactic. Shallan just see's she's there and that's basically it. She's back in the fold like nothing really changed.

Shadesmar!!!! How the hell can I be so damn excited for the idea of something, and then turn around and be completely bored by it.[

Just give Venli regular chapters and quit taking up my interludes!

Not saying I didn't like it, overall I just ended up feeling the length of this book a lot more than I ever did in the previous 2.

Some overall Cosmere/Stormlight questions that I'm not sure if have been answered or not and I may have just missed:

Do we get an answer as to what Shallan kept seeing in her dads vaults in all her flashbacks? She said it was a blinding light behind the painting, and I'm not sure if I just breezed over it or what, but I didn't think it got answered.

Is the group Amaram in, the sons of honor or whatever it was, the same thing as The Diagram or was Amaram/Gavilar thing separate? I was going with the idea they were separate entities, but I want to say it was something Terevengian said that made me question this.

No question, I just want more Axies, give me another chapter from his perspective, not just a quick mention!
 

Wowfunhappy

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Oct 27, 2017
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Finished Oathbringer.

I like it a little less than the other two. It was a great culmination and had some good payoff. Part 5 may be the most intense non stop reading I've had in a long time. But the build up to get there was a bit of a slog.

The first two parts I was completely disappointed in because it seemed to take everything I came to love in WoR and push it to the side. I fell in love with the dynamic between Adolin/Shallan/Kaladin and instantly Kaladin is gone to Alethkar, and Adolin was basically pushed to just some sword lessens.
I might have said this before in this thread, so apologies if I'm repeating myself, but when I read Oathbringer, it was as if I could feel Brandon straining to keep all the plot threads together. Stuff just kind of happens, and it doesn't come together in a coherent way. The book's ending is great, but it's more an exciting finale than a "climax"--it wasn't built to by previous events.

Interestingly, I read the last three Wheel of Time books within the past year, and I thought Sanderson did a much better job there tying all the disparate threads into coherent novels. That seems like it should have been a much harder task than Oathbringer, given the number of characters and how off the rails that series had gone.

The comeback of Jasnah felt very anticlimactic. Shallan just see's she's there and that's basically it. She's back in the fold like nothing really changed.
In fairness, we already knew she was alive from the WoR epilogue, so there wasn't much to reveal. Shallan does herself complain about how little has changed in terms of how Jasnah treats her, and that dynamic serves to show how Shallan has grown as a character in the interim.

Just give Venli regular chapters and quit taking up my interludes!
Okay, so I'm actually much more bothered by this than I should be--in Oathbringer, Sanderson kept breaking his own rules for the interludes by using them on viewpoints who also get chapters in the main novel. Why not just make them regular chapters, then? The interludes were supposed to be a way for Sanderson to highlight characters and stories elsewhere in the world, and I really liked them that way...
 
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RepairmanJack

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Oct 27, 2017
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I might have said this before in this thread, so apologies if I'm repeating myself, but when I read Oathbringer, it was as if I could feel Brandon straining to keep all the plot threads together. Stuff just kind of happens, and it doesn't come together in a coherent way. The book's ending is great, but it's more an exciting finale than a "climax"--it wasn't built to by previous events.

Interestingly, I read the last three Wheel of Time books within the past year, and I thought Sanderson did a much better job there tying all the disparate threads into coherent novels. That seems like it should have been a much harder task than Oathbringer, given the number of characters and how off the rails that series had gone.
Wheel of Time is my next big take down. Trying to finish up a couple other shorter reads first though.



In fairness, we already knew she was alive from the WoR epilogue, so there wasn't much to reveal. Shallan does herself complain about how little has changed in terms of how Jasnah treats her, and that dynamic serves to show how Shallan has grown as a character in the interim.
Ok, so my problem mostly with this is the lack of Navani talk surrounding it. She basically ignored Shallan for an entire book because of it, then we get mostly nothing from her after this until part 4&5.

Okay, so I'm actually much more bothered than this than I should be--in Oathbringer, Sanderson kept breaking his own rules for the interludes by using them on viewpoints who also get chapters in the main novel. Why not just make them regular chapters, then? The interludes were supposed to be a way for Sanderson to highlight characters and stories elsewhere in the world, and I really liked them that way...
I almost kind of wonder if Brandon didn't have many ideas for interludes for Oathbringer. Giving
Venli
multiple interlude chapters on top of there being a couple interludes that didn't feel as insightful this time around made it seem like there wasn't as much to gleam from Interludes this time around.

Bummer for probably one of my favorite parts of this series.
 

phaze

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Oct 26, 2017
1,207
Finished Oathbringer.
Some overall Cosmere/Stormlight questions that I'm not sure if have been answered or not and I may have just missed:

Do we get an answer as to what Shallan kept seeing in her dads vaults in all her flashbacks? She said it was a blinding light behind the painting, and I'm not sure if I just breezed over it or what, but I didn't think it got answered.
That was revealed in climax of WoR unless I'm misremembering something ? Reread last bits of her flashbacks.

Is the group Amaram in, the sons of honor or whatever it was, the same thing as The Diagram or was Amaram/Gavilar thing separate? I was going with the idea they were separate entities, but I want to say it was something Terevengian said that made me question this
.
I'm pretty sure they are separate.


Wheel of Time is my next big take down. Trying to finish up a couple other shorter reads first though.
RIP
 

RepairmanJack

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Oct 27, 2017
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That was revealed in climax of WoR unless I'm misremembering something ? Reread last bits of her flashbacks.
Tried to do some rereading and couldn't find anything other than her referring to it as "a monster in there.". So I did some googling and it seems like we still don't actually know what was inside? Seems strange.
 

phaze

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Oct 26, 2017
1,207
Tried to do some rereading and couldn't find anything other than her referring to it as "a monster in there.". So I did some googling and it seems like we still don't actually know what was inside? Seems strange.
We're talking about "Mother's Soul" stuff behind the painting or something right ? I'm not confusing it ?I don't have access to the book but googling around, it seems to be chapter 88.

IIRC It was just Pattern as a Sharblade who got put there by the father after Shallan killed her mother with his (Pattern's) aid. Rest of it: Mother's Soul/ blinding light I think was just kinda sorta Shallan being mindbroken a tiny bit.
 

RepairmanJack

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Oct 27, 2017
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We're talking about "Mother's Soul" stuff behind the painting or something right ? I'm not confusing it ?I don't have access to the book but googling around, it seems to be chapter 88.

IIRC It was just Pattern as a Sharblade who got put there by the father after Shallan killed her mother with his (Pattern's) aid. Rest of it: Mother's Soul/ blinding light I think was just kinda sorta Shallan being mindbroken a tiny bit.
Yeah, you're right. I was only looking in the flashbacks. Weird there is still speculation surrounding it though. Guess people think there is more to it than what was revealed.
 

VanWinkle

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Oct 25, 2017
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Shame to hear about the lack of story diversity in the Oathbringer interludes. I loved them so much in Words of Radiance and particularly Way of Kings.
 

Wowfunhappy

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Oct 27, 2017
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Shame to hear about the lack of story diversity in the Oathbringer interludes. I loved them so much in Words of Radiance and particularly Way of Kings.
Do keep in mind, part of the reason the interludes don't feel substantially different from the normal chapters is because the normal chapters include a much wider range of viewpoint characters than WoK or WoR, so if you really liked the interludes, you might enjoy Oathbringer more on those grounds.

I just liked the interludes feeling like true, distinct side stories. There are still a handful of interludes that focus on completely new characters and locations—we should have gotten more of those, with the other interludes moved to normal chapters.
 

SigmasonicX

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Oct 25, 2017
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Just finished reading The Mistborn Trilogy the other day, and I liked it a lot. I know some people talk about live action adaptations for these, but I'd much rather see an adaptation from the animators of the Netflix Castlevania series.

In retrospect, I suppose Vin and Elend weren't super interesting, but I found them plenty enthralling and I liked their relationship. Sazed was probably my favorite perspective character, and I was happy to see he was the one to save everyone in the end; the kandra in second. There weren't any perspective characters I disliked; I was worried about Spook becoming one in the third book, but he figured out the metal in his body thing before he went too far.

I was disappointed by Ruin as a character, but he's a good implementation of something that wants destruction and nothing more. The pre-chapter stuff in book 3 was mostly enjoyable, but at times, it felt oddly like Sanderson was covering up a plot hole with Sazed just going, "I don't know why he did this."

I was pretty impressed by the twists in book 3. Sazed being the one to save the world was mentioned above, but also the significance of Vin's earring. I had completely forgotten about the odd way Vin's mother killed her sister then gave Vin an earring, and I hadn't noticed Vin used the mist to power up when she didn't have an earring.

Allomancy was a bit confusing at first, but once I saw how it was being used, I was really impressed by it. I'd love to see it in animation.

So the second Mistborn series is worth reading too, right?