Yeah, I don't know why a lot of people dislike Shallan. Her plot line in WoK is pretty boring early on, but so are the other early chapters.
As of Oathbringer, Shallan might be my favorite character.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Brandon Sanderson's Cosmere |OT| Journey Before Destination
- Thread starter ExMachina
- Start date
Yeah, I don't know why a lot of people dislike Shallan. Her plot line in WoK is pretty boring early on, but so are the other early chapters.
As of Oathbringer, Shallan might be my favorite character.
I kind of wonder if it's because it gives a different type of worldbuilding than Sanderson usually gives. It's almost like Eland in Mystborn. Where Kaladin is giving us the worldbuilding on the different cultures, the magic systems, the war as a whole. But Shallan is giving us the world building view of what the regular Light Eye's life deals with at least on a small scale as it leads her to such big things. She's seen as inappropriate, she was basically locked away in her house until her family put it on her shoulders to get them out of trouble. We get a look at the ward/apprentice life of someone that should mostly be just a normal lighteyes.
Give me a POV of one of Adolin's girls he's courting, I'll take more of the minor lighteye's stuff.
Lol, I just discovered that this subreddit exists. It makes me very happy.
https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckmoash/
(Do not enter if you haven't finished Oathbringer.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckmoash/
(Do not enter if you haven't finished Oathbringer.)
Sadly, this phrase has been so common in general whenever Sanderson or any of the books come up it's almost impossible to have not seen this even before I read The Way of Kings.
I find her annoying, even though her plot line is getting interesting, and it really comes down to this- It's every time she is supposedly "witty". I find Sanderson's attempts to portray her wit fall so flat that I groan every time she fires off some lame quip to another character. For a character to display wit, you have to give them something clever to say. Nothing she says I find to be particularly clever.
Finished Warbreaker. Probably some of my favorite characters Sanderson has written, but I'm not a huge fan of the story. Felt pretty simple for the most part and then what twists and turns there were didn't feel very earned or fleshed out before the fact. Which ended up making the last quarter or so feel rushed. This seemed like it was possibly planned out to be more than one book, or it just got to a point and realized it needed wrapped up. Either way it just seemed to be a rushed ending. So much so that the 'villains' basically sit and explain every aspect of their plans and how some stuff went wrong and what was confused by the main characters.
"Need to read"? No.
But, if you haven't already read Warbreaker, that would be a very good idea. It would also be an ideal time to read Edgedancer.
Edgedancer takes place between them. If you haven't read Warbreaker, now would be a good time to, but it's not essential.
Ok I'll volunteer to be the hardline guy and say you need to read both Warbreaker and Edgedancer (AKA Stormlight book 2.5) hahah.
Seriously though: Warbreaker is not essential to Stormlight but it's a good book and you will get more out of certain parts of Oathbringer. Edgedancer is a novella so it's relatively short and it directly bridges the gap for certain background characters between books 2 and 3, so I would absolutely without reservation say to read it first.
Seriously though: Warbreaker is not essential to Stormlight but it's a good book and you will get more out of certain parts of Oathbringer. Edgedancer is a novella so it's relatively short and it directly bridges the gap for certain background characters between books 2 and 3, so I would absolutely without reservation say to read it first.
Having just finished Warbreaker and in the middle of Words of Radiance, I would definitely recommend Warbreaker. Just for the characters and Nightblood alone.
I'm about 60-70% through Words of Radiance, and there are so many moments in this book so far where I've audibly said "Fuck off!" or yelled.
The death at the beginning, I refuse to believe it!
Shallan seeing her brothers Shardblade!
Szeth!
Amaram, that fuck! When he's given that title
Shallan seeing her brothers Shardblade!
Szeth!
Amaram, that fuck! When he's given that title
Finished Words of Radiance. I loved the character interactions and how dark Words went, but I think overall I liked Way of Kings slightly more. Mainly because I feel like most of the big reveals or happenings in Words were just a little too telegraphed. I feel like the light hints were just a bit too heavy handed.
Also read Edgedancer. Really good and fun but I feel like the change of character for someone near the end just feels way too similar to the change of character at the end of Words of Radiance for a different character. Just seemed a little hand wavey, when seeing Brandon talk about the reasons for Edgedancer in the first place before Oathbringer.
Also read Edgedancer. Really good and fun but I feel like the change of character for someone near the end just feels way too similar to the change of character at the end of Words of Radiance for a different character. Just seemed a little hand wavey, when seeing Brandon talk about the reasons for Edgedancer in the first place before Oathbringer.
After hearing so many good words about Sanderson's works and my country finally importing English copies, the crappy Gollanz edition unfortunately, I bought the entirety of Way of Kings.
After being thoroughly beaten to death by boredom during Part 1 and not understanding the high praise, Part 2 has me cackling like a madman. I'm not saying it didn't start off good, Sanderson had me invested in the characters from the start, but it just felt trite and predictable. Still is sort of, Sadeas betrayingv Dalinar was about as surprising as lightning following a clap of thunder, but good lord is that Part 2 thrilling. Not entirely done yet, but I just had to come in hear cause I loved what I just read. Dalinar going up to the King and bitch slapping his immature ass for staging an assassination against himself came out of nowhere and I love how we are finally seeing some proper politics being thrown in to this confusing mess of Surgebinging, Stormlight, and the end of the world.
Last edited:
Hey, delighted you're enjoying the book, but you should add spoiler tags as soon as possible!
I figured the book is old enough for open spoilers, I fixed it immediately.
You're certainly not wrong in terms of how long the books have been available, however for this thread we want it to be welcoming to newcomers to Sanderson and his Cosmere. So the policy is spoilers for all of the Cosmere books. Happy to hear that the you're finding the second half of the book an adequate payoff. A slow burn first half that primarily establishes world building with a wild ride of a second half is the most iconic part of Sanderson's writing style. So if you can enjoy it, then You'll likely enjoy the majority of his books.
Just hit a part in Oathbringer that made me have to immediately go back and read the prologue of Way of Kings with whole new context, and I still don't have the full picture.
Also, I will never understand the hate Shallan gets. Probably my favorite main character.
A certain king would probably be my most interesting and favorite character in the series as a whole though.
Also, I will never understand the hate Shallan gets. Probably my favorite main character.
A certain king would probably be my most interesting and favorite character in the series as a whole though.
Its also giving me a reason to finally get Knife of Dreams finished in the Wheel of Time, TGS/TOM/AMOL must be one hell of a ride and a proper send off to Robert Jordan's work going by his writing style in these two books. I was slightly worried, but now I'm brimming with excitement.
I'm reading the first half of Oathbreaker right now (In German each book of the Stormlight Archive is split into two); it's been ages since I read Warbreaker, but I read ITT that it's a good idea to read before Stormlight Archive? Can someone explain why? I loved Warbreaker, but can not remember the connections.
Night blood, Zahel and another character from Warbreaker is in Oathbringer
Ohhhh! Really?! Thank you! After the second half of Oathbringer I'll defintely re-read Warbreaker!
Finished Oathbringer.
I like it a little less than the other two. It was a great culmination and had some good payoff. Part 5 may be the most intense non stop reading I've had in a long time. But the build up to get there was a bit of a slog.
Not saying I didn't like it, overall I just ended up feeling the length of this book a lot more than I ever did in the previous 2.
Some overall Cosmere/Stormlight questions that I'm not sure if have been answered or not and I may have just missed:
I like it a little less than the other two. It was a great culmination and had some good payoff. Part 5 may be the most intense non stop reading I've had in a long time. But the build up to get there was a bit of a slog.
The first two parts I was completely disappointed in because it seemed to take everything I came to love in WoR and push it to the side. I fell in love with the dynamic between Adolin/Shallan/Kaladin and instantly Kaladin is gone to Alethkar, and Adolin was basically pushed to just some sword lessens.
The comeback of Jasnah felt very anticlimactic. Shallan just see's she's there and that's basically it. She's back in the fold like nothing really changed.
Shadesmar!!!! How the hell can I be so damn excited for the idea of something, and then turn around and be completely bored by it.[
Just give Venli regular chapters and quit taking up my interludes!
The comeback of Jasnah felt very anticlimactic. Shallan just see's she's there and that's basically it. She's back in the fold like nothing really changed.
Shadesmar!!!! How the hell can I be so damn excited for the idea of something, and then turn around and be completely bored by it.[
Just give Venli regular chapters and quit taking up my interludes!
Not saying I didn't like it, overall I just ended up feeling the length of this book a lot more than I ever did in the previous 2.
Some overall Cosmere/Stormlight questions that I'm not sure if have been answered or not and I may have just missed:
Do we get an answer as to what Shallan kept seeing in her dads vaults in all her flashbacks? She said it was a blinding light behind the painting, and I'm not sure if I just breezed over it or what, but I didn't think it got answered.
Is the group Amaram in, the sons of honor or whatever it was, the same thing as The Diagram or was Amaram/Gavilar thing separate? I was going with the idea they were separate entities, but I want to say it was something Terevengian said that made me question this.
No question, I just want more Axies, give me another chapter from his perspective, not just a quick mention!
Is the group Amaram in, the sons of honor or whatever it was, the same thing as The Diagram or was Amaram/Gavilar thing separate? I was going with the idea they were separate entities, but I want to say it was something Terevengian said that made me question this.
No question, I just want more Axies, give me another chapter from his perspective, not just a quick mention!
I might have said this before in this thread, so apologies if I'm repeating myself, but when I read Oathbringer, it was as if I could feel Brandon straining to keep all the plot threads together. Stuff just kind of happens, and it doesn't come together in a coherent way. The book's ending is great, but it's more an exciting finale than a "climax"--it wasn't built to by previous events.
Interestingly, I read the last three Wheel of Time books within the past year, and I thought Sanderson did a much better job there tying all the disparate threads into coherent novels. That seems like it should have been a much harder task than Oathbringer, given the number of characters and how off the rails that series had gone.
In fairness, we already knew she was alive from the WoR epilogue, so there wasn't much to reveal. Shallan does herself complain about how little has changed in terms of how Jasnah treats her, and that dynamic serves to show how Shallan has grown as a character in the interim.
Okay, so I'm actually much more bothered by this than I should be--in Oathbringer, Sanderson kept breaking his own rules for the interludes by using them on viewpoints who also get chapters in the main novel. Why not just make them regular chapters, then? The interludes were supposed to be a way for Sanderson to highlight characters and stories elsewhere in the world, and I really liked them that way...
Last edited:
Wheel of Time is my next big take down. Trying to finish up a couple other shorter reads first though.
Ok, so my problem mostly with this is the lack of Navani talk surrounding it. She basically ignored Shallan for an entire book because of it, then we get mostly nothing from her after this until part 4&5.
I almost kind of wonder if Brandon didn't have many ideas for interludes for Oathbringer. Giving
Venli
Bummer for probably one of my favorite parts of this series.
That was revealed in climax of WoR unless I'm misremembering something ? Reread last bits of her flashbacks.
I'm pretty sure they are separate.
RIP
Tried to do some rereading and couldn't find anything other than her referring to it as "a monster in there.". So I did some googling and it seems like we still don't actually know what was inside? Seems strange.
We're talking about "Mother's Soul" stuff behind the painting or something right ? I'm not confusing it ?I don't have access to the book but googling around, it seems to be chapter 88.
IIRC It was just Pattern as a Sharblade who got put there by the father after Shallan killed her mother with his (Pattern's) aid. Rest of it: Mother's Soul/ blinding light I think was just kinda sorta Shallan being mindbroken a tiny bit.
Yeah, you're right. I was only looking in the flashbacks. Weird there is still speculation surrounding it though. Guess people think there is more to it than what was revealed.
Do keep in mind, part of the reason the interludes don't feel substantially different from the normal chapters is because the normal chapters include a much wider range of viewpoint characters than WoK or WoR, so if you really liked the interludes, you might enjoy Oathbringer more on those grounds.
I just liked the interludes feeling like true, distinct side stories. There are still a handful of interludes that focus on completely new characters and locations—we should have gotten more of those, with the other interludes moved to normal chapters.
Just finished reading The Mistborn Trilogy the other day, and I liked it a lot. I know some people talk about live action adaptations for these, but I'd much rather see an adaptation from the animators of the Netflix Castlevania series.
So the second Mistborn series is worth reading too, right?
In retrospect, I suppose Vin and Elend weren't super interesting, but I found them plenty enthralling and I liked their relationship. Sazed was probably my favorite perspective character, and I was happy to see he was the one to save everyone in the end; the kandra in second. There weren't any perspective characters I disliked; I was worried about Spook becoming one in the third book, but he figured out the metal in his body thing before he went too far.
I was disappointed by Ruin as a character, but he's a good implementation of something that wants destruction and nothing more. The pre-chapter stuff in book 3 was mostly enjoyable, but at times, it felt oddly like Sanderson was covering up a plot hole with Sazed just going, "I don't know why he did this."
I was pretty impressed by the twists in book 3. Sazed being the one to save the world was mentioned above, but also the significance of Vin's earring. I had completely forgotten about the odd way Vin's mother killed her sister then gave Vin an earring, and I hadn't noticed Vin used the mist to power up when she didn't have an earring.
Allomancy was a bit confusing at first, but once I saw how it was being used, I was really impressed by it. I'd love to see it in animation.
I was disappointed by Ruin as a character, but he's a good implementation of something that wants destruction and nothing more. The pre-chapter stuff in book 3 was mostly enjoyable, but at times, it felt oddly like Sanderson was covering up a plot hole with Sazed just going, "I don't know why he did this."
I was pretty impressed by the twists in book 3. Sazed being the one to save the world was mentioned above, but also the significance of Vin's earring. I had completely forgotten about the odd way Vin's mother killed her sister then gave Vin an earring, and I hadn't noticed Vin used the mist to power up when she didn't have an earring.
Allomancy was a bit confusing at first, but once I saw how it was being used, I was really impressed by it. I'd love to see it in animation.
So the second Mistborn series is worth reading too, right?
I'm on Part 2 of Oathbringer, gonna write up a storm for the entirety of the series once finished, but I have to chime in.
Shallan is a special kinda crazy, and I love it. I love in general how all the radiants are a bunch of crazies with varying psychosis, but Shallan is on a whole nother level. She stabbed her leg for the sake of fucking research.
Nice there is a thread for this :O
i thought Shallan was alright in way of Kings but got better as her backstory is revealed in Words and
GOAT Character of the series is
and i cant wait for (oathbringer spoilers)
that's the whole point of being radiant though where they are broken in some way. Also iirc she did something even worse (even though its more a light moment given its based on one of their weird customs).
I would love Adolin getting similar powers but i like the fact he isn't broken so hey.
I would love Adolin getting similar powers but i like the fact he isn't broken so hey.
i thought Shallan was alright in way of Kings but got better as her backstory is revealed in Words and
her being out of Jansah's shadow for both Words and up to the point in Oathbringer where they reunite.
GOAT Character of the series is
Wit
him to show off his illusion powers
Last edited:
I love Shallon and her chapters. I never get bored of them. Honestly, in WoR when
Kaladin chapters in WoK bored me but not too much. Mainly the ones where he was moping the whole time but they were still good. Dalinar was kinda boring too in WoR.
Haven't started Oathbringer, yet and I can't wait.
Adolin was in the arena fighting the three shardbearers, I wanted Shallan to say "f@#$ it" and just leap in with her new shardblade and help him out. Yes, I know she can't fight but it would've been a cute and epic moment for her.
Kaladin chapters in WoK bored me but not too much. Mainly the ones where he was moping the whole time but they were still good. Dalinar was kinda boring too in WoR.
Haven't started Oathbringer, yet and I can't wait.
Shallan is easily my favorite 'main' characters. I'm still shocked at all the hate she gets. She's the absolute most interesting and most well rounded character in my opinion.
I can see why she'd be a little frustrating in Oathbringer after her development from Words of Radiance, but I still don't think she's worth hating.
I can see why she'd be a little frustrating in Oathbringer after her development from Words of Radiance, but I still don't think she's worth hating.
That is what I truly love about this series.
The subversion that the mundane, the normal, and those who do not know mental anguish are powerless. But the mentally broken, the people who feel they do not deserve happiness, do not belong, or see the world in a different optic are the ones who will lead, who will bear the burden of duty, and protect those who are fine with the world as is.
I hope to god Wit keeps this up, and Sanderson writes him into the rest of the Cosmere. An omnipotent know it all who is chaotic neutral, doesn't give a fuck about anything but the big picture and is helping one Shard or the other feels like its gonna tie eventually into a bigger more important series that will involve the entirety of the Cosmere, unless the Stormlight Archive turns out to be this. I feel that certain characters are not from Roshar and the continent is gonna be a Shard Battleground sooner or later.
As for Adolin
I feel too many of the Kholin Line have Radiance. Throwing in Adolin would feel a bit much, especially considering Elhokar was gonna be a Lightweaver.
My Adolin thoughts have been all over the place between book 2 and 3 :
At first I thought he'd end up getting an honor blade and possibly breaking bad in some way. Then with his shardblade sprin seemingly gaining life slowly and all the talk of a sprin being able to come back to life, I'm thinking that will lead to something possibly different?
Tiny thing, but you guys might want to consider using [ cross ] tags instead of [ spoiler ] when you're only blacking out tidbits as opposed to whole paragraphs, it makes stuff much easier to read!
See:
vs
I find reading the former kind of awkward, particularly when quoted posts are also mixed in. But the latter reads perfectly!
See:
vs
I find reading the former kind of awkward, particularly when quoted posts are also mixed in. But the latter reads perfectly!
Also read that Blog post and holy shit does he have a ton of books working on. :O
Massive props for having the imagination and drive to keep that up.
Honestly Adolin would be strong a 2nd place on the GOAT list
Massive props for having the imagination and drive to keep that up.
Yea its an interesting take especially with how broken some of these people are and the fact that them having the powers doesn't automatically fix them and they will have to continuously improve on their own (eg. Teft. Kaladin, Dalinar). By far the best part of Oathbringer for me was Dalinar accepting what he did and what he has to do then speaking his next oath and everything he and everyone else does afterwards.
His interactions with the characters are the highest highs for the series on a whole and him slowly revealing himself to being more than meets the eye is also very intriguing to me.
I might have re-read his conversation with Jansah on her return like 20 times lol and i like how she is the one that exasperated by him because he's usually right, honest about the stuff he knows and confident.
I might have re-read his conversation with Jansah on her return like 20 times lol and i like how she is the one that exasperated by him because he's usually right, honest about the stuff he knows and confident.
I think the Kholins having that much members being radiant shows how mentally broken that family is with super powers being a somewhat acceptable byproduct tbh. And while it would be cool for Adolin to be back on somewhat even footing i would also like him to forge another path and hopefully this possibly healing of the spren in his blade pays off
I hope so as well because i don't want him to be broken as i now feel he's the one that can hold the others together with his positivity no matter how much Kaladin would complain :P
Honestly Adolin would be strong a 2nd place on the GOAT list
just because he fucking offed Sadeas and did what i feel the readers wanted for a while. He basically answered the "why don't you just shoot him" trope and it was the most cathartic moment of the series for me because Sadeas wouldn't stop being a shitteel and he expected to be untouchable but Adolin flipped the script on him. Hopefully that incident doesn't affect him too badly going forward.
Also bonus points for what he said as he does the deed :D
Also bonus points for what he said as he does the deed :D
Last edited:
Just started getting into the Stormlight Archives completely crushed my way through WoK and now about halfway through WoR. I have to admit though I'm a bit annoyed that seemingly 80% of the book so far has been Shallan chapters.
I like her character but I vastly preferred WOK where the POV switched a lot more frequently.
I like her character but I vastly preferred WOK where the POV switched a lot more frequently.
My memory could be wrong, but I don't think WoR is any more Shallan-heavy than WoK is Kaladin-heavy on the whole, so I think you'll be satisfied on that front.
Getting back heavy into reading. I hadn't read Oathbringer (nor Edgedancer) even though I bought it day 1. At this point I'm so fuzzy that I'm just decided to reread WoK and WoR. Then I'm getting hyped remembering the Wax and Wayne Mistborn books and the original Mistborn books. So might just read them all.
Also I picked up the Legion hardcover and I'm enjoying that immensely. On the last novella now.
Picked up Starsight but I'll probably read that after Way of Kings and before Words.
Also I picked up the Legion hardcover and I'm enjoying that immensely. On the last novella now.
Picked up Starsight but I'll probably read that after Way of Kings and before Words.
Oathbringer is excellent on this front, so look forward to that at the very least. There is one PoV that just unfolds everything into a new light, and I am so glad that Sanderson went that route.
I am talking about the Bridge Four Crew Member chapters, seeing stuff like Rock's inner monologues, Teft dealing with addiction, and how everyone thinks of each other was a 10/10 for me.
Sorry for the DP, but I just finished Oathbringer, and wow. This is like penultimate before the final battle material and its only book 3, not even halfway through the series? Holy shit was that a ride. So many questions, so many new plot threads, so many twists, and what a great way to full expand the series' scope. So much can happen now, its insane. Full thoughts coming soon, but for now:
That's not even the bigfest piece of speculation I have right now, but it is the oddest.
Wit and Elhokar have to be playing a long con together, the Cryptic Wit picks up is in the rubble where the kings "dead" body fell, and the Fused must know something was off with the Kings death. That or Wit IS Elhokar, somehow. We know spren go back to Shadesmar after their radiant die, so its deeply profound that the Kings cryptic would stick around.
I took all that completely different.
We know from Lift's spren that the spren somewhat do stick around if they haven't fully bonded, at least as far as I took it. Because he talks about how he could have bonded with a nice shoemaker who healed hurt kids(the one we saw Nail kill in WoR) and that he goes on to bond Lift.
I took that Epilogue to mean that Elhokar did die, but because it was before he really bonded the Spren, he kind of just stuck around as we get the impression it was still super early in the spren's lifetime because it seems very childish and scared.
I took that Epilogue to mean that Elhokar did die, but because it was before he really bonded the Spren, he kind of just stuck around as we get the impression it was still super early in the spren's lifetime because it seems very childish and scared.
Not sure at all what is actually true, not saying your wrong. Just thought it was interesting that I took it completely different.