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Dec 4, 2017
11,481
Brazil
Google Translate:

Sony suffered defeat in the lawsuit filed by the user who had the PS5 banned for sharing PS Plus Collection games with others. As a result, the judge of the São Paulo Court of Justice (TJSP) forced the company to reactivate the console. The Japanese woman filed an appeal to try to overturn the sentence, but a TJSP rapporteur denied the request, and the verdict remained the same.

Sony claimed that the user was legally banned

Tecnoblog had access to the resource presented by Sony. The company asked for the sentence to be overturned, claiming that the PS5 owner had agreed to the PlayStation Plus Terms of Use and was therefore legally banned and could no longer access the console.

Sony further claimed that the user had knowingly violated the service rules. For the company, the banned player cannot say that he was unaware of the terms of the PS Plus, as the regulation "is exposed to consumers, in a clear and crystalline way".
The rapporteur for the case disagreed with Sony's arguments

TJSP's rapporteur Deborah Lopes did not agree with Sony's arguments. She explained that the PS Plus guidelines do prohibit sharing games in the collection with others, but neither the rule nor the punishments are clear in the service's code of conduct.

Due to this flaw in the wording of the text, the sentence stated that the appellant failed to comply with the duty to provide information by imposing punitive clauses without prominence, being written in the body of the adhesion contract with the same font and size, without a specific field for a visa consumer or similar formality.

Deborah Lopes, rapporteur of the TJSP, in sentence

In addition, the rapporteur clarified that, even though it is provided for in the PS Plus rules, the ban is abusive and goes against the Consumer Protection Code (CDC), as it "puts the consumer at an excessive disadvantage".

For these reasons, Deborah denied Sony's appeal and upheld the original sentence. The Japanese company must reactivate the banned PS5 and pay R $ 1,500 in fees to the console owner's lawyers, in addition to bearing the costs of the lawsuit. There will be no indemnity for pain and suffering.


tecnoblog.net

Sony recorre, mas é obrigada a desbloquear PS5 banido em SP – Tecnoblog

Para a Sony, o usuário foi banido legalmente, pois havia aceitado os termos do PS Plus; a relatora do TJSP negou o recurso
 
Oct 30, 2017
8,706
Seems like if Sony didn't want PS+ collection games being shared, they should have done something on their back end without banning people.
 

Arubedo

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Dec 24, 2018
1,080
Morocco
Good, Sony should never have the rights to ban a freaking console especially at that price.
 

Septimus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,580
It should have never been a permanent/hardware ban. Something like 3-6 months would have sufficed.
 

SigSig

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,777
Good. Banning hardware is fucked up. Those banned consoles WILL end up with somebody who didn't know about this and who then can't get their money back.
With the recent thread about the thousands of dollar digital library gone, I don't even think banning a PSN account is ok. They need to make these bans a lot more granular.
 

Foltzie

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,780
Rather than require a license check periodically (on the home console) they were ban hammering the occasional person they caught?

What an utter waste of resources.
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,546
Yeah, obviously. Sony is out if their minds if they think they are entitled to punish piracy with arresting people's private property.
 

Rowsdower

Prophet of Truth - The Wise Ones
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,544
Canada
Good.

They should just do a license check or something. No need to do a perm ban.
 

HardRojo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,093
Peru
Good. Rendering the whole console useless was fucked up. Temporarily ban the user if you want to, but banning an expensive piece of hardware (especially in Brazil where it costs a lot) is overkill.
 

Transistor

The Walnut King
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,119
Washington, D.C.
Seems like if Sony didn't want PS+ collection games being shared, they should have done something on their back end without banning people.
Pretty much. They should have made them special PS5 skus or something.

They still probably could. Just redo the whole thing as a PS4 game in a PS5 container or something and nullify the keys for the old ones.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,958
Good, I hate bans like this, and also the lack of accountability and responsiveness of the platform is frustrating... If you're a user whose been banned oor something there's often little recourse. Removing a library or censuring a user is one thing, banning a console or locking out an entirely pre-purchased library for something that is *possible* to do on the console seems wrong. This isn't a beef I have with just Sony, but with most digital platforms, and we need some guidelines around it.

Also another good strike against bull shit TOS defenses. Putting some TOS statement in a 20-30 page TOS that is so obtuse legal experts can't even parse it, let alone a ... person activating their new console...
 

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,354
Good, I hate bans like this, and also the lack of accountability and responsiveness of the platform is frustrating... If you're a user whose been banned oor something there's often little recourse. Removing a library or censuring a user is one thing, banning a console or locking out an entirely pre-purchased library for something that is *possible* to do on the console seems wrong. This isn't a beef I have with just Sony, but with most digital platforms, and we need some guidelines around it.

Also another good strike against bull shit TOS defenses. Putting some TOS statement in a 20-30 page TOS that is so obtuse legal experts can't even parse it, let alone a ... person activating their new console...
Correct me if I am wrong but it seems like they lost this case because they didn't have this spelled out in their TOS.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,958
Correct me if I am wrong but it seems like they lost this case because they didn't have this spelled out in their TOS.

I think you're right, from the translation one of Sony's defenses is "[the reason the user was banned] is this is spelled out in a clear and crystalline way" in the ToS, which is always bull shit... There's nothing clear or crystalline about terms of service agreements, they're intentionally written in an impossible to understand way that puts maximum blame on users' behavior, and minimum liability for service for the provider.
 

Deleted member 81119

User-requested account closure
Banned
Sep 19, 2020
8,308
Yes!! Awesome. You shouldn't be allowed to ban a console. Hell you shouldn't even be allowed to ban someone from accessing their digital games. The more lawsuits like this that platform holders lose, the better.
 

Praedyth

Member
Feb 25, 2020
6,516
Brazil
Pretty much. They should have made them special PS5 skus or something.

They still probably could. Just redo the whole thing as a PS4 game in a PS5 container or something and nullify the keys for the old ones.
They did? I remember people saying that Plus Collection games were locked in their PS4 after getting the unlock via someone else's PS5.
 

Funky_Monkey

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,678
Correct me if I am wrong but it seems like they lost this case because they didn't have this spelled out in their TOS.
That was my first thought, but at the end of the judgement it seems to indicate that the punishment was deemed over the top in comparison to the offense (at least that's how I read it)
 

Praedyth

Member
Feb 25, 2020
6,516
Brazil
I don't know why Sony insisted on this ban, they should go after people that tried to sell the PS+ Collection. I think that is much more reasonable.
 

gifyku

Member
Aug 17, 2020
2,739
Pretty much. They should have made them special PS5 skus or something.

They still probably could. Just redo the whole thing as a PS4 game in a PS5 container or something and nullify the keys for the old ones.

Please. no more skus.

They just need to delete the entitlement from everyones library and remove the user's access to the psplus collection. That would be a fair punishment
 

The Artisan

"Angels are singing in monasteries..."
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
8,096
Google Translate:

In addition, the rapporteur clarified that, even though it is provided for in the PS Plus rules, the ban is abusive and goes against the Consumer Protection Code (CDC), as it "puts the consumer at an excessive disadvantage".
This is the key thing here for me. If I am understanding correctly that Sony forcefully bricked this person's Ps5, what the fuck were they thinking
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
Banning the console is a shit idea though. Consoles can be traded or sold.

Just ban the user.

If someone is using modified hardware then they just keep creating burner accounts every time they get banned. If you're using modified hardware to pirate or cheat in games then you deserve a ban. In this particular instance of the PS+ sharing a permanent ban is too harsh I agree but in general I'm all on board for banning people for using modified hardware. Its much harder to get a new console than it is to make a new user account.
 

Praedyth

Member
Feb 25, 2020
6,516
Brazil
Maybe it was the ones from the PS5s that let tons of people redeem or something. I doubt they're doing much to track the one-off stuff.
I think that's it.
I gave my login to a friend who traveled to Europe and got a ps5 at launch, he redeemed the games and I still have access to them on my pS4 pro.
It seems these friends unlocking is okay, but not in bulk. Also saw people in a forum relating the lock to the use of the QR code when signing in on PS5. Weird stuff.