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Brazilian Ex-president Lula Ordered Released From Jail

OmegaX

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,185
Ya quisieramos haber tenido a un presidente como Lula, los programas sociales impulsados durante su gobierno sacaron a millones de la pobreza extrema. Estuvo encarcelado sin evidencia, y ahora tocará esperar a ver si encuentran pruebas (lo que no han podido hacer hasta ahora).
Tampoco hemos podido encontrar pruebas para encarcelar a Humala y Nadine pero no me vas a decir que crees que son inocentes. Estoy seguro que hasta Keiko va a terminar saliendo libre por alguna jugada legal y jueces amigos. Lula es otro político corrupto de la red de Odebretch.
Ojo que no niego que sus programas sociales no hayan sido buenos pero si vamos a perdonar la corrupción seguiremos con lo mismo de "roba pero hace obra".
 

Rosebud

Member
Apr 16, 2018
6,340

Bronx-Man

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,260
Bolsonaro having a fanbase here is way more surprising than there being potential Trump supporters here.
 

red13th

Member
Oct 25, 2017
443
Not a fan of Lula but he shouldn't even have gone to jail in the first place, the judge who sentenced him is scum and was covertly working with the prosecution. It's apalling.
 

Seattle6418

Member
Oct 25, 2017
145
Brasília Brazil
This sounds like a very odd justice system. How many times can you appeal and how long does i take? Does it ever expire if it takes too long?
Looks like a system that benefits rich people that keep paying good lawyers to make new appeals and never go to jail.

Here in Canada you go to jail after the first sentence. I believe other developed countries are the same.
It is odd.

After the sentence and the appeal on the state court, you can appeal to the Superior Court of Justice (where i work), and then to the Supreme Court. Inside of those courts you can have multiple appeals depending on the situation. Think of the Steve Avery case, but more cumbersome.

I highlighted developed countries when you gave the example because unfortunately Brazil is not one of them. Our justice system is just a complete mess, mixing Norway style concepts of dignity to the prisoners in the written law with Guantanamo Bay conditions for those imprisoned.

The president who robbed the country, millions of unemployed people, broken economy, high crime ratio and the biggest corruption scandal in the WORLD came under his management.

Today this gentleman goes free to enjoy the money that he stole from us.

Today I am ashamed to be Brazilian.
I do sense some bolsominion on this, but i get your frustration. Lula is far from an angel or a saint, only problem was this process was just weak from the start. One thing i will say after having worked in the government is that Car Wash is FAR from the worst corruption scandal in Brazil. What happens in the financial sector is 1000x worse.

Hopefully he rises to power again within Brazil.
Hell no!

We know Bolsonaro is a monumental scumbag and a worthless POS, but electing Lula and the workers party would solve zero problems. I don´t want their centrism and neoliberal policies again. This time he would win in much different conditions. Lula without the high prices for commodities equals Dilma. His third term would be a disaster.

I´m a Ciro Gomes supporter, so my take on this is biased, but anyways... the campaign for 2022 started today, and i fear that this polarization will only help Bolsonaro.
 
OP
OP
Eylos

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,593
It is odd.

After the sentence and the appeal on the state court, you can appeal to the Superior Court of Justice (where i work), and then to the Supreme Court. Inside of those courts you can have multiple appeals depending on the situation. Think of the Steve Avery case, but more cumbersome.

I highlighted developed countries when you gave the example because unfortunately Brazil is not one of them. Our justice system is just a complete mess, mixing Norway style concepts of dignity to the prisoners in the written law with Guantanamo Bay conditions for those imprisoned.



I do sense some bolsominion on this, but i get your frustration. Lula is far from an angel or a saint, only problem was this process was just weak from the start. One thing i will say after having worked in the government is that Car Wash is FAR from the worst corruption scandal in Brazil. What happens in the financial sector is 1000x worse.



Hell no!

We know Bolsonaro is a monumental scumbag and a worthless POS, but electing Lula and the workers party would solve zero problems. I don´t want their centrism and neoliberal policies again. This time he would win in much different conditions. Lula without the high prices for commodities equals Dilma. His third term would be a disaster.

I´m a Ciro Gomes supporter, so my take on this is biased, but anyways... the campaign for 2022 started today, and i fear that this polarization will only help Bolsonaro.
i also do not want lula 2022 (we need new leaderships), but i think he has a power to mobilize the unions and people that no other politician has and could help the left to fight bolsonaro and the right
 

Seattle6418

Member
Oct 25, 2017
145
Brasília Brazil
Any cliffs on this guy? Was he actually involved in the oil company scandal? Or is there more to the story? I keep hearing different things.
Think of a guy with loose moral values. I´m not saying he actually stole a bunch of money for him, but he has his hands dirty in a lot of things, like appointing scumbags to important positions knowing they were only going to steal and do shady business.

Lula is a very smart guy, so his corruption is more refined. He got a payout doing speeches all over the world after his term was over, but that´s technically not corruption... he´s all over on those grey area issues.

I would say his biggest problem is that he says he´s from the left, people think he represents the left, but his government was neoliberal from start to finish, including the social programs to fight poverty.
 

Serpens007

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,118
La Derecha va a caer en toda Latinoamerica.

His trial was always fishy, so this is good. I always think that every politician must be watched by their people, power corrupts them all, but when you have so much force going against a politician, specially from a fascist fuck, there must be something there.

Oh sorry, bolsonaro is not a fascist. He's just a nationalistic, anti-intelectual, conservative, pro military rule, moderate right wing pro market guy right?
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,986
Brazil
Dude deserves a fair trial

It is hilarious how little proof they had to arrest him .. like right now bolsonaro have like 10 times the reason to be in jail than lula had =P

i m far from being a fan, he is full of shit and not so good as president, but president lula is no better then him
De direita
 

inguef

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
12,699

Linkark07

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,365
Tampoco hemos podido encontrar pruebas para encarcelar a Humala y Nadine pero no me vas a decir que crees que son inocentes. Estoy seguro que hasta Keiko va a terminar saliendo libre por alguna jugada legal y jueces amigos. Lula es otro político corrupto de la red de Odebretch.
Ojo que no niego que sus programas sociales no hayan sido buenos pero si vamos a perdonar la corrupción seguiremos con lo mismo de "roba pero hace obra".
Todos los corruptos deben ir presos, irrelevantemente si hicieron obras buenas o no. Aunque con Bolsonaro me conformo con cadena perpetua. En el caso de Brasil, ese Sergio Moro también debe ir a la chirola. Por su culpa todo este proceso contra Lula quedó viciado y ahora Lula va a utilizar la excusa de persecución política para que sus seguidores lo defiendan.
 

Memento

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,891
This whole Supreme Court judgement was pretty straightforward really.

The Constitution literally says that you will only go to prison after the "trânsito em julgado" (no more appeals).

That was always the case in Brazil, but then RIGHT BEFORE 2018's Presidential Elections, Lula went to jail even though there were still appeals because reasons (a new view on the "innocent until proven guilty" right). It was obviously a political prison in that sense.

But then now, the proble. arrived in the Supreme Court that decided yesterday that YES YOU WILL ONLY GO TO JAIL AFTER THE TRANSITO EM JULGADO which is literally what the Constitution says so they basically read it.

Also it is important to note that people that commited crimes with violence can go to jail even if there are still appeals with the so called "prisão preventiva", so it is not like rapists and murderes will all be free like bolsominions were spreading with fake news
 

BonneMort

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
139
This whole Supreme Court judgement was pretty straightforward really.

The Constitution literally says that you will only go to prison after the "trânsito em julgado" (no more appeals).

That was always the case in Brazil, but then RIGHT BEFORE 2018's Presidential Elections, Lula went to jail even though there were still appeals because reasons (a new view on the "innocent until proven guilty" right). It was obviously a political prison in that sense.

But then now, the proble. arrived in the Supreme Court that decided yesterday that YES YOU WILL ONLY GO TO JAIL AFTER THE TRANSITO EM JULGADO which is literally what the Constitution says so they basically read it.

Also it is important to note that people that commited crimes with violence can go to jail even if there are still appeals with the so called "prisão preventiva", so it is not like rapists and murderes will all be free like bolsominions were spreading with fake news
A very good lawyer and law teacher called Lênio Streck says something in the lines of “If you see a plane, it can be a jet fighter or a cargo plane or a small jet, but you can’t say it’s a boat.”

That is basically what was happening. There is no way you can interpret the Constitution or article 283 of the Penal Procedure Law in other way than “you can’t be arrested if you can appeal.”

As a former lawyer and a disappointed law study enthusiast, the former decision was something out of this world, bizarre and ridiculous. It’s really not about Lula, to me. It’s about respecting the law and the constitution.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,986
Brazil
ok for the rest of the site

he said "Lula is a thief ! ... he stole my heart" and I posted a famous time when one of bolsonaro's son liked a picture of lula shirtless on instagram

I will not explain the context of the tweet I posted because it is basically impossible if you are not brazilian
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,987
As someone that dislikes Lula, this is fine because the way he was arrested wasnt legal to begin with
I hope he is arrested by legal means now.
 

lmog

Member
Jun 17, 2019
42
Think of a guy with loose moral values. I´m not saying he actually stole a bunch of money for him, but he has his hands dirty in a lot of things, like appointing scumbags to important positions knowing they were only going to steal and do shady business.

Lula is a very smart guy, so his corruption is more refined. He got a payout doing speeches all over the world after his term was over, but that´s technically not corruption... he´s all over on those grey area issues.

I would say his biggest problem is that he says he´s from the left, people think he represents the left, but his government was neoliberal from start to finish, including the social programs to fight poverty.
I do have some criticism about Lula, but calling him a neoliberal is an exaggeration. He was more left-wing than most of center-left leaders around the world, not to mention that there is a huge difference between his policies and Temer/Bolsonaro's neoliberal policies. I also doubt that we are going to have a more left-wing president than him.

The big issue I have is that him and the PT always want to be the leader of the left, instead of working with others. Really wish the left would unite against Bolsonaro.
 

radiotoxic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
551
I almost never step into this side of the forums, but this is a different kind of day.

LULA LIVRE, PORRA!!!

Un gran abrazo desde Argentina!
 

ty_hot

Member
Dec 14, 2017
3,572
I almost never step into this side of the forums, but this is a different kind of day.

LULA LIVRE, PORRA!!!

Un gran abrazo desde Argentina!
He is gonna be there for Fernandez inauguration a month from now.

Think of a guy with loose moral values. I´m not saying he actually stole a bunch of money for him, but he has his hands dirty in a lot of things, like appointing scumbags to important positions knowing they were only going to steal and do shady business.

Lula is a very smart guy, so his corruption is more refined. He got a payout doing speeches all over the world after his term was over, but that´s technically not corruption... he´s all over on those grey area issues.

I would say his biggest problem is that he says he´s from the left, people think he represents the left, but his government was neoliberal from start to finish, including the social programs to fight poverty.
An ex-president of one of the biggest countries, biggest populations and biggest economies in the world that left office with 93% approval rating giving speeches... wow, sounds like only corruption could explain that. Weirdly enough even Globo (biggest media group in Brazil, that hates him) hired him once for a speech. Not to say the countless free speeches he gave after his presidency.
 

hrœrekr

Banned
May 3, 2019
370
It is odd.

After the sentence and the appeal on the state court, you can appeal to the Superior Court of Justice (where i work), and then to the Supreme Court. Inside of those courts you can have multiple appeals depending on the situation. Think of the Steve Avery case, but more cumbersome.

I highlighted developed countries when you gave the example because unfortunately Brazil is not one of them. Our justice system is just a complete mess, mixing Norway style concepts of dignity to the prisoners in the written law with Guantanamo Bay conditions for those imprisoned.
Not surprised with all the levels of criminality and corruption in this system. My roommate is from Brazil, and we often talk about what is going on in the south.
He told me this will make the far-right president even more popular as the opposite force against corruption and the broken system. It's crazy to think how unstable the institutions are at the moment. Things don't look good for Brazil, unfortunately.
 

Brazil

The Dude of Prophecy
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
10,218
São Paulo, Brazil
He told me this will make the far-right president even more popular as the opposite force against corruption and the broken system.
Bolsonaro's been completely exposed already. He's done. He already has record disapproval ratings in only a few months in power, even surpassing two previous presidents who were impeached. Your roomate is wrong.

It's just a matter of time before the entire right-wing apparatus starts seeing him as a loose end.
 

Tugatrix

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,939
Lula is ready to rumble

this one is amazing


translation

"I'm a very young man. From biological stand point i have 74 years, but 30 of energy and 20 of Bonner"

As someone that dislikes Lula, this is fine because the way he was arrested wasnt legal to begin with
I hope he is arrested by legal means now.
Based on what exactly?


A case that stinks? yeah there was corrupt people around Lula but the evidence that he did anything is a bit tainted and anchored on just believing or not on the allegations because facts are very thin, barely none
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,987
Based on what exactly?

A case that stinks? yeah there was corrupt people around Lula but the evidence that he did anything is a bit tainted and anchored on just believing or not on the allegations because facts are very thin, barely none
If you believe he innocent good for you, I doubt he is because that would require him to be completely in the blind of what was happening within his party and government, so for he was at minimum conniving.
Also the case he was arrested for isnt the only one that he was prosecuted for.
Just because Moro wasnt impartial doesnt mean Lula is innocent of all cases. Hoping for him to be arrested by legal means isnt wrong.
 

Tugatrix

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,939
If you believe he innocent good for you, I doubt he is.
Also the case he was arested for isnt the only one that he was prosecuted for.
Just because Moro was impartial doesnt mean Lula is innocent of all cases.
Then show me receipts, I'll be the first to criticize him then, but let him be judged based on real evidence and with an impartial judge
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,987
Then show me receipts, I'll be the first to criticize him then, but let him be judged based on real evidence and with an impartial judge
That is exactly what i said?
I hope he is arrested by legal and fair means, the people that should show the receipts are the prosecution not me.
Our choices are Lula and Bolsonaro. Kill me.
Cmon, even if Lula is bad he isnt a facist piece of shit, this comparison makes no sense
 

Tugatrix

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,939
That is exactly what i said?
I hope he is arrested by legal and fair means.
But thats the difference between me and you, i don't see any evidence there and that makes him innocent. And the way you say it, it just seems arrest him I think he is guilty of anything, so dig dirt on him there must be some. They dug dirt on him before and the best they did is an arrest that didn't respect the law based on a case with a partial judge and very little evidence