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Brazilian Ex-president Lula Ordered Released From Jail

hrœrekr

Banned
May 3, 2019
370
Bolsonaro's been completely exposed already. He's done. He already has record disapproval ratings in only a few months in power, even surpassing two previous presidents who were impeached. Your roomate is wrong.

It's just a matter of time before the entire right-wing apparatus starts seeing him as a loose end.
He told me people voted for Bolsonaro in the first place because they were angry with Lula's party corruption.
Lula out of jail can spark this anger and fear of his return to politics.
The conjecture of negative emotions usually pushes people to far‐right and authoritarian populists. We see this happening everywhere.
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,987
But thats the difference between me and you, i don't see any evidence there and that makes him innocent. And the way you say it, it just seems arrest him I think he is guilty of anything, so dig dirt on him there must be some. They dug dirt on him before and the best they did is an arrest that didn't respect the law based on a case with a partial judge and very little evidence
I am not a judge, I dont have to be impartial, I believe he is involved and he should be prosecuted for that. If he gets a not guilty that is good, I just dont believe he is.
 

Linkark07

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,365
He is gonna be there for Fernandez inauguration a month from now.
It still baffles me Argentinians voted for Fernandez and Kichner. That woman should be locked behind bars the rest of her life.

I mean, I know Macri is a POS and another criminal, but between Macri and Kichner, the former is the lesser of two evils.
 

Brazil

The Dude of Prophecy
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
10,218
São Paulo, Brazil
He told me people voted for Bolsonaro in the first place because they were angry with Lula's party corruption.
Lula out of jail can spark this anger and fear of his return to politics.
The conjecture of negative emotions usually pushes people to far‐right and authoritarian populists. We see this happening everywhere.
Lula was on track to carry those elections until he was unlawfully arrested. Bolsonaro won because not enough people recognized Lula's substitute as such. In fact, projections showed that, had the elections happened just a few weeks later, Haddad would've probably caught up to Bolsonaro. They even unlawfully forbid Lula of giving an interview in support for Haddad while in jail because they knew that'd badly hurt Bolsonaro's chances.

Even if you ignore all that, though, Bolsonaro isn't opposition anymore. He's in power. And the country has turned for the worse in every single aspect since he took office. No one is gonna run to their side when their side is to blame for what's happening right now. Even centrists are starting to long for the days when Lula was in power.

I am not a judge, I dont have to be impartial, I believe he is involved and he should be prosecuted for that. If he gets a not guilty that is good, I just dont believe he is.
Good luck with that. Maybe one day you'll will his crimes into existence.

The fact that you still believe this dude is guilty of anything when the entire State had to collude to get him arrested on fake charges is pretty embarrassing, though. At some point you need to start thinking for yourself about these things.
 

ty_hot

Member
Dec 14, 2017
3,572
That is exactly what i said?
I hope he is arrested by legal and fair means, the people that should show the receipts are the prosecution not me.

Cmon, even if Lula is bad he isnt a facist piece of shit, this comparison makes no sense
So you are expecting Dalagnol to show the receipts? The guy that in private talked about how week his case was and in the same week called the whole press to show the infamous power point presentation where Lula was the supreme leader pf all corruption in the universe? yeah sure, good luck (this was shown by The Intercept)

The whole Lula case was built by the media, over 4 years beating him every single night for minutes and minutes, hiding any corruption from other parties, publishing only corruption the Worker’s Party (real or not), helping create a sentiment of generalized corruption (only in the worker’s party) that led to Bolsonaro being elected. Lula’s trial is political, not criminal, and the main prosecutor was the media. The whole judicial process, the judge, the prosecutor, are just there to try to give some legitimacy to the hunt. I am sure in a few years or decades Lula’s case will be stufied all over the world as a prime example of lawfare.

Anyone that followed the news in Brazil in the last years know how biased the media is against him, and by consequence a great part of the population was taught to hate him and anyone related to him. We now have Bolsonaro who is a real corrupt that might have ties to militia groups in Rio. The hate against Lula is so big that evne though he left office with 93% approval rating, some say he did a bad government lol
 

Madison

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
6,341
Lima, Peru
Lula was on track to carry those elections until he was unlawfully arrested. Bolsonaro won because not enough people recognized Lula's substitute as such. In fact, projections showed that, had the elections happened just a few weeks later, Haddad would've probably caught up to Bolsonaro.
Can you source this? I had no idea
 

NoName999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,012
The president who robbed the country, millions of unemployed people, broken economy, high crime ratio and the biggest corruption scandal in the WORLD came under his management.

Today this gentleman goes free to enjoy the money that he stole from us.

Today I am ashamed to be Brazilian.
And yet, you guys haven't learned anything from it apparently. :P
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,987
So you are expecting Dalagnol to show the receipts? The guy that in private talked about how week his case was and in the same week called the whole press to show the infamous power point presentation where Lula was the supreme leader pf all corruption in the universe? yeah sure, good luck (this was shown by The Intercept)

The whole Lula case was built by the media, over 4 years beating him every single night for minutes and minutes, hiding any corruption from other parties, publishing only corruption the Worker’s Party (real or not), helping create a sentiment of generalized corruption (only in the worker’s party) that led to Bolsonaro being elected. Lula’s trial is political, not criminal, and the main prosecutor was the media. The whole judicial process, the judge, the prosecutor, are just there to try to give some legitimacy to the hunt. I am sure in a few years or decades Lula’s case will be stufied all over the world as a prime example of lawfare.

Anyone that followed the news in Brazil in the last years know how biased the media is against him, and by consequence a great part of the population was taught to hate him and anyone related to him. We now have Bolsonaro who is a real corrupt that might have ties to militia groups in Rio. The hate against Lula is so big that evne though he left office with 93% approval rating, some say he did a bad government lol
I already said that I want him to be judged fairly, and like I said in the Brazil OT I am very mad with the way Lula was arrested.
Good luck with that. Maybe one day you'll will his crimes into existence.

The fact that you still believe this dude is guilty of anything when the entire State had to collude to get him arrested on fake charges is pretty embarrassing, though. At some point you need to start thinking for yourself about these things.
I just don't believe he wanst involved in the crimes the rest of his party and government were part of. If you believe that it is ok and your choice. But I want him to be judged fairly to finally know the truth
 
OP
OP
Eylos

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,593
It still baffles me Argentinians voted for Fernandez and Kichner. That woman should be locked behind bars the rest of her life.

I mean, I know Macri is a POS and another criminal, but between Macri and Kichner, the former is the lesser of two evils.
macri fucked up the argentina economy pretty badly 1/3 of argentina population is in poverty
 

Arcana Wiz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
66
As a brazilian what i have to say...

Yes his judgement was very dubious so he derseves to be free for this case

But its very reductionist to equal Lula=Left=Everything that its good
His party IS partly to blame of the many problems that the country is going through now including the poor economy
And the corruption in every project was humongous, remember the money drain that was the Olympics? (not that the right is any better)

And before someone acuses me, between Bolosonaro X Lula i choose Lula. (I`m gay man that makes the choise even easier)
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,987
Yes his judgement was very dubious so he derseves to be free for this case
It wasnt just dubious, it was a complete farce. Seriously as someone that was happy that they finally caught him it felt like a big betrayal. It complately dashed my hopes of the problem of the corruption ever being solved here.
 

Brazil

The Dude of Prophecy
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
10,218
São Paulo, Brazil
Can you source this? I had no idea
It was a Datafolha projection published in the week following the election. I'll look the link up later.

I just don't believe he wanst involved in the crimes the rest of his party and government were part of. If you believe that it is ok and your choice. But I want him to be judged fairly to finally know the truth
Your beliefs regarding what Lula did or didn't do are, quite frankly, meaningless. This isn't a matter of opinion. It's a matter of facts. And unfortunately for you and yours, those exact "beliefs", echoed by people like Dallagnol and Moro - people who literally committed crimes in order to chase those beliefs - have made sure that Lula will never be "judged fairly" in this country.
 

Nakho

Member
Nov 1, 2017
51
As a brazilian what i have to say...

Yes his judgement was very dubious so he derseves to be free for this case

But its very reductionist to equal Lula=Left=Everything that its good
His party IS partly to blame of the many problems that the country is going through now including the poor economy
And the corruption in every project was humongous, remember the money drain that was the Olympics? (not that the right is any better)

And before someone acuses me, between Bolosonaro X Lula i choose Lula. (I`m gay man that makes the choise even easier)
One and done. I don't think Lula is great at all, but between him and Bolsonaro, the choice is clear.
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,987
It was a Datafolha projection published in the week following the election. I'll look the link up later.


Your beliefs are, quite frankly, meaningless. And unfortunately for you and yours, those exact "beliefs", echoed by people like Dallagnol and Moro - people who literally committed crimes in order to chase those beliefs - have made sure that Lula will never be "judged fairly" in this country.
I never said that my beliefs meant anything(i admit I am partial about this) and so are the beliefs of anyone imo, to judge someone fairly beliefs should never have any influence.
 

Browser

Member
Apr 13, 2019
507
One and done. I don't think Lula is great at all, but between him and Bolsonaro, the choice is clear.
Yes, the choice is clear.
Neither.
We should champion for new politicians and new ideas. The parties in brazil are fighting against new leadership, we should not help them to continue with the status quo.
 

Arcana Wiz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
66
It wasnt just dubious, it was a complete farce. Seriously as someone that was happy that they finally caught him it felt like a big betrayal. It complately dashed my hopes of the problem of the corruption ever being solved here.
Yeah, and it was clear that the apartment case was grasping at the straws. I wanted a prosecution of the entire PT regarding the MANY cases of corruption in the last decade, but the chances of this happening are only decreasing....
 
OP
OP
Eylos

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,593
Noted. Just like that dictator-wannabe Piñera. And do you guys expect Fernandez to fix the economy having Kirchner as his vice?
honestly idk south america economies with some exceptions, are in a bad phase and in crisis, since the drop of the price of commodities of the last world economical crisis. personaly i think Keynesian policies would help the economy to recover.
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,987
Yes, the choice is clear.
Neither.
We should champion for new politicians and new ideas. The parties in brazil are fighting against new leadership, we should not help them to continue with the status quo.
Look, as much I dislike Lula, sometimes we need to face reality and understand that we should choose the lesser of 2 evils. Hell I wouldnt even call lula evil, I dont think he did what he did (assuming he is guilty) for evil objectives like Bolsonaro
 

Brazil

The Dude of Prophecy
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
10,218
São Paulo, Brazil
Yes, the choice is clear.
Neither.
We should champion for new politicians and new ideas. The parties in brazil are fighting against new leadership, we should not help them to continue with the status quo.
You're not wrong. But we can't conjure new political leaders out of thin air. Everything "new" that's come up in these last few years is a farce.
 

Browser

Member
Apr 13, 2019
507
You're not wrong. But we can't conjure new political leaders out of thin air. Everything "new" that's come up in these last few years is a farce.
You are right. I nulled my vote last year, Boksonaro is a menace and would never deserve my vote, but the PT's plan for Brazil didnt work either. The one positive thing that came out of last years election was the number of new politicians, highest in a long time. We should keep an eye on them, vot for more new plans next year, and stop thinking lula or bolsonaro are the answer to anything.

Look, as much I dislike Lula, sometimes we need to face reality and understand that we should choose the lesser of 2 evils. Hell I wouldnt even call lula evil, I dont think he did what he did (assuming he is guilty) for evil objectives like Bolsonaro
How can you be sure what lula's motives were, for anything? Dont you think its dangerous to put one person or side as 100% righteous (even of they do bad things)? That means anything and anyone against any ideias from that side in any level is evil, and life does not work that way.
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,987
How can you be sure what lula's motives were, for anything? Dont you think its dangerous to put one person or side as 100% righteous (even of they do bad things)? That means anything and anyone against any ideias from that side in any level is evil, and life does not work that way.
Because, like me thinking Lula is guilty, this is just my belief.
 

Melkr_

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,324
Pink wave gang we back!

Now, if only AMLO wasn't such an amateur and fake leftist we would be good.
 

Rosebud

Member
Apr 16, 2018
6,340
Yes, the choice is clear.
Neither.
We should champion for new politicians and new ideas. The parties in brazil are fighting against new leadership, we should not help them to continue with the status quo.
I agree that we need new politicians, but Lula doesn't threat my existence (and many others), I wasn't afraid of the government during PT years. The difference is huge.

I literally would vote for anyone against Bolsonaro: Aécio, Alckmin, Doria... any right-wing politician that isn't crazy.
 

Butch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,488
It still baffles me Argentinians voted for Fernandez and Kichner. That woman should be locked behind bars the rest of her life.

I mean, I know Macri is a POS and another criminal, but between Macri and Kichner, the former is the lesser of two evils.
She is in power again because clearly not everyone here thinks/agrees that she should be in Jail. And no thanks, Macri is way worse.
 

Browser

Member
Apr 13, 2019
507
I agree that we need new politicians, but Lula doesn't threat my existence (and many others), I wasn't afraid of the government during PT years. The difference is huge.

I literally would vote for anyone against Bolsonaro: Aécio, Alckmin, Doria... any right-wing politician that isn't crazy.
Yes I am not a minority so the experience for me is different, even tho the way Bolsonaro treats minorities is one of my top 3 reasons why he will never get my vote. I cant imagine how minorities are feeling, and it pisses me off.

Its too bad PT couldnt step aside this time. I would vote for virtually anyone other than bolsonaro and haddad. I assume there are many of us who nulled who feels this way.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,986
Brazil
Yes I am not a minority so the experience for me is different, even tho the way Bolsonaro treats minorities is one of my top 3 reasons why he will never get my vote. I cant imagine how minorities are feeling, and it pisses me off.

Its too bad PT couldnt step aside this time. I would vote for virtually anyone other than bolsonaro and haddad. I assume there are many of us who nulled who feels this way.
may i ask who you voted on the first round?
Feel free to not answer if you don't want
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,979
Bolsonaro having a fanbase here is way more surprising than there being potential Trump supporters here.
You should have seen the Brazil elections thread, it was drowning in Bolsonaro supporters until most of them got banned for homophobia, sexism, classicism, racism or rationalizing fascism. Of Latin America Era, Brazil and Mexico (for my shame) era have a lot of right wing supporters.
 

Fuu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,401
I love the resignification people are doing by turning the pathetic gun hand gesture Bolsonaro does to mean an L for Lula.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,986
Brazil
Bolsonaro's been completely exposed already. He's done. He already has record disapproval ratings in only a few months in power, even surpassing two previous presidents who were impeached. Your roomate is wrong.

It's just a matter of time before the entire right-wing apparatus starts seeing him as a loose end.
A good politician could use this as a way to reunite his broken party and the voters who lost faith in him ....

...bolsonaro is not a good politician
 

balgajo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
671
The president who robbed the country, millions of unemployed people, broken economy, high crime ratio and the biggest corruption scandal in the WORLD came under his management.

Today this gentleman goes free to enjoy the money that he stole from us.

Today I am ashamed to be Brazilian.
Was that a parody?
 

Lua

Member
Aug 9, 2018
731
Here's the thing. I dont really would want lula president now under normal and reasonable means, but these are not the times. To be able to run and win against the insanity that is far-right now you need to be someone who can speak and move people. And lula can do this, he always could. That's why they had to lock him before the elections and even stop him from talking. He couldn't even support haddad, because they knew how much weight he has.

At the very least, him out will make a big difference on how bolsonaro and his crew act. They will have to do their best to not bring attention to him, since he can do so much with his speaches. That's why i think they're doing the ignore game now.
 

AzorAhai

Member
Oct 29, 2017
950
Look, as much I dislike Lula, sometimes we need to face reality and understand that we should choose the lesser of 2 evils. Hell I wouldnt even call lula evil, I dont think he did what he did (assuming he is guilty) for evil objectives like Bolsonaro
I don't know much about Lula's deep objectives, but as someone following politics from many countries... what happened to him seems 200% lawfare. Other politicians from around the world are starting to unite against this strategy which is not a pleasing phenomenon to acknowledge but it's becoming more and more obvious lately.
 

Bosch

Member
May 15, 2019
586
The president who robbed the country, millions of unemployed people, broken economy, high crime ratio and the biggest corruption scandal in the WORLD came under his management.

Today this gentleman goes free to enjoy the money that he stole from us.

Today I am ashamed to be Brazilian.
What a joke post lol.

He left presidency with 5% unemployment rate. The economy had the best 8 years with him in the last 40 years.

His 8 years was the period with biggest improvement in poverty and inequality.

World Bank data.
 

Inuhanyou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,449
New Jersey
Lula should never have been jailed. It was all theatre. Glad progressive left leaders are coming back

You cant argue against the reality of what social welfare really means. It means success and growth


 
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