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SoundCheck

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,489
Do2S_QvXkAEAnzI.jpg

BRAZILIAN GENERAL ELECTION 2018 OT

When?
October 7 (First Round); October 28 (Second Round)
For which charges? President, National Congress, State Governors and State Assembly.
Can the Fascist win? Yes

Context
The 2014 Brazilian Presidential Election was the most fierce in history, with the incumbent Dilma Rousseff of the Worker's Party (PT) defeating Aécio Neves of the Brazilian Social Democratic Party (PSDB) by a narrow margin. In 2014, the country was crossing a economic recession, and the Operation Car Wash beginning to reveal a great scheme of corruption inside the giant state oil company Petrobras. After the re-election, Dilma broke many of its campaign promises, by applying austerity measures aimed at restoring economic growth and reducing the fiscal deficit of government accounts, that failed to achieve the desired results. Meanwhile, the Operation Car Wash revealed the biggest corruption scheme in Brazilian history, with values of financial movements estimated at R$ 8 trillion (U$ 2.05 trillion) implying many people of nearly all Brazilian political parties in the Legislative and Executive, including key-people in the government, and severely damaging the image of the Worker's Party. Widespread protests against the government occurred, supported and encouraged by employers syndicates, conservative social movements and opposition parties (which would later be affected by Car Wash). In 2016, Rousseff was impeached with the justification of having broken budgetary laws. The Impeachment was launched by the Chamber of Deputies President Eduardo Cunha (PMDB), after PT deputies voted against him in a corruption case. The removal of the President was supported by many former allied parties, including PMDB, the party of vice president Michel Temer. With Temer in the presidency the austerity measures were deepened, with a law that freezes investment in healthcare and education for the next 20 years, and the Legislative approved controversial laws like a withdraw of labour rights and a reform in the public High school system. In 2017, Temer was recorded in a private conversation, in which he discusses ways to kept Eduardo Cunha (arrested at the time for corruption) silent. Allies in the National Congress prevented the president from being investigated for obstruction of justice. In 2018 Lula (PT), a popular ex-president and leader in opinion polls for the upcoming election, was arrested for money laundering and corruption , in a process that his allies and some jurists consider illegal. Brazil reach the the most unpredictable election in history with a population in discredit for the politicians and institutions, with 13 million unemployed, 60,000 murders per year, and the most unpopular president in history, in a scenario that anything can happen. Oh and Aécio, the guy that almost won in 2014, was recorded asking for a tip of R$ 2 million and now is trying to gain a seat in the Congress to escape the police investigation.

Presidential Election
The President and the Vice President of Brazil are elected using the two-round system. Citizens may field their candidacies for the presidency, and participate in the general elections, which are held on the first Sunday in October (in this instance, 7 October 2018). If the most-voted candidate takes more than 50% of the overall vote, he or she is declared elected. If the 50% threshold is not met by any candidate, a second round of voting is held on the last Sunday in October (in this instance, 28 October 2018). In the second round, only the two most-voted candidates from the first round may participate. The winner of the second round is elected President of Brazil. The President selects his/her Vice President.
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CIRO GOMES (Democratic Labour Party-PDT)

Vice: Katia Chainsaw (PDT)

Supported by: Forward

Qualifications and Experience: Law Graduate (UFC), Visiting Scholar (Harvard Law School), Governor of Ceará (1991-1994), Minister of Finance (1994-1995), Minister of National Integration (2003-2006), Federal Deputy for Ceará (2007-2011).

Biography: The former governor of Ceará runs for president for the third time, having been defeated in 1998 and 2002. Former minister of Lula, Ciro tries to build itself as a centre-left alternative, with a programme focusing in the development of the national industry and resumption of works stopped during the economic crisis as a way to combat unemployment. Ciro is known for his explosive temperament and arrogance. His vice, Kátia Abreu, won the Golden Chainsaw Award offered by Greenpeace in 2011 for contributing to deforestation in the Amazon. Gomes polls high in his home state and northeast.

Proposals: Renegotiation of debts of 63 million defaulters, create a value added tax, create 2 million jobs on the first year of government, revoke the labour reform, revoke the sale of Embraer to Boening, repurchase oil fields sold abroad, create full-time vocational schools, create day care centers.

Accusations and Prosecutions: Accounts for 70 lawsuits for moral damages and 7 criminal complaints for slander, defamation and injury.
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FERNANDO HADDAD (Worker's Party –PT)

Vice: Manuela D'ávila (Communist Party of Brazil – PcdoB)

Supported by: Communist Party of Brazil (PCdoB), Republican Party of The Social Order (PROS), Worker's Struggle Party (PCO-Informal Support)

Q&E: Law Graduate, Master's Degree in Economics, Doctorate in Philosophy (USP); Minister of Education (2005- 2012); Mayor of São Paulo (2013-2017)

Bio: After Lula was banned from running again for presidency because of his conviction, PT indicated the former Mayor of São Paulo, Fernando Haddad as their substitute. The first indie mayor of Brazil (critical success, public failure), Haddad runs with a message of return to the good times of Lula, when the country reached strong economic growth and poverty reduction
through government investment in social programs. When was Minister of Education, Haddad oversaw the unification of college entrance exams and a funding program for students in private colleges. PT won every presidential election since 2002, boosted by Lula popularity, but the party is accused of siding with conservative parties to ensure governability. PT image was severely damaged by the corruption scandals that have hit their leaders, but the party still keeps a loyal electorate, especially among the poorest population and has in the northeast their stronghold.

Proposals: Revoke Temer Reforms; expand enrollment in higher education; create a national plan to reduce homicides; criminalize homophobia; boosting affirmative action in public services; resume paralyzed works, specially the My House, My Life program; tax dividends and large fortunes, resume integration policies in Latin America, write a new constitution.

A&P: Accused of using illegal money to fund his mayoral campaign (still in process).

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GERALDO ALCKMIN (Brazilian Social Democracy Party – PSDB)

Vice: Ana Amélia (Progressits – PP)

Supported by: Democrats (DEM); Progressists (PP); Party of the Republic (PR); Brazilian Republican Party (PRB); Solidarity (SD); Brazilian Labour Party (PTB); Social Democratic Party (PSD); Popular Socialist Party (PPS)

Q&E: Medic (UNITAU); Governor of São Paulo (2001-2006, 2011-2018), Federal Deputy for São Paulo (1987-1994)

Bio: After the humiliating defeat suffered in 2006, Alckmin runs for presidency again with a liberal, pro-business platform. His campaign is focused in a defense of the reforms applied by Michel Temer and and the need to reduce the country's bureaucracy. Alckmin allied himself with a group of parties known as "Big Centre" (little, pragmatic parties whose only ideology is align with the team that's winning), that assured him which secured the most media time and more resources. The Alckmin Government in São Paulo target of numerous suspicions of corruption, overbilling and the formation of cartels. Historically, PSDB's base of support is the middle and rich classes, especially in the south and southeast, but in this election his electorate migrated to Jair Bolsonaro.

Proposals: increase vacancies in day care centers, reopen 30,000 closed beds in the country, create a border police, reduce the number of homicides to 20 / 100,000; build 3 million homes, privatize state-owned enterprises, create a value-added tax, pension reform.

A&P: accused of receiving R$ 10 million for election campaign (still in process)
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JAIR BOLSONARO (Social Liberal Party –PSL)

Vice: General Mourão (Brazilian Labour Renew Party- PRTB)

Q&E: Army Captain (until 1988); Alderman from Rio de Janeiro (1989-1991); Federal deputy from Rio de Janeiro (since 1991).

Bio: Following the major global trend, the brazilian far-right presents their candidate for dictator. A federal deputy since 1991, Bolsonaro rose to fame for his comments attacking homosexuals, woman, blacks, indigenous, leftists, poor people and the Brazilian democratic system, and also for his firm stance against crime and corruption . He is also known for his support for the Brazilian Military Dictatorship (1964-1985). Bolsonaro and his vice said they could take various authoritarian measures if they win the election. Bolsonaro also said he will not accept the result if he does not win. Since the beginning of the campaign, Bolsonaro supporters attacked many political opponents using violence. In September, he was stabbed by a fanatical in a rally, boosting his support. The candidate polls high among the rich and young voters, and, since the beginning of the election, a fake news campaign boosted by WhattsApp made his support grown among the religious electorate .

Proposals: Stop "Marxist indoctrination and gender ideology" in schools, reduce the vacancies reserved for racial quotas, to increase the number of military schools, abolish the statute of disarmament, voluntary chemical castration for rapists, exclude unlawfulness for police officers on duty, create a new green and yellow labor portfolio (with less labor rights) , indicate at least 5 generals for ministries, leave the Paris agreement, leave the UN human rights committee.

A&P: Countless lawsuits for moral damages. Accused of racism (acquitted by the Supreme Court).Recently was revealed by Veja Magazine that, in the divorce proceedings, Bolsonaro's ex-wife accused him of steal a bank safe belonging to the couple and and hide assets in his statement of property.
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MARINA SILVA (Sustainability Network – REDE)

Vice: Eduardo Jorge (Green Party - PV)

Q&E: History graduate (UFAC), specialized in psychoanalysis and psychopedagogy, Senator for Acre (1995-2011), Ministry of the environment (2003-2008).

Bio: Disputing the presidency for the third time, Marina tries to build herself as a centrist and environmentalist option escaping the polarization present in the country today. Her platform focuses on sustainable development, civil liberties and reducing inequalities. Marina is strongly criticized for her lack of position on key issues, for appearing only in the election period, and for the influence of her religion (Evangelical Christian) on her decisions. In the beginning of the campaign, Marina polled high among woman, but her support sank since then.

Proposals: financial deposits for students as a way to combat school dropout, plebiscite on drug decriminalization, prepare a national public security plan, universal basic sanitation, plebiscite on abortion, simplify taxes, review tax waivers, review labour law reform, install 1.5 million small and medium-sized photovoltaic solar roofs by 2022.

A&P: none

Other candidates include: Minister of Economy Henrique Meirelles (PMDB); Senator for Paraná Álvaro Dias (PODEMOS); Homeless Workers Movement coodinator Guilherme Boulos (PSOL); liberal banker João Amoedo (NOVO); EY-EY-EY mael (DC); unionist Vera Lúcia (PSTU); Federal Deputy Cabo Daciolo (PATRIOTA); and philosopher João Goulart Filho (PPL)

Congressional Elections

Federal Senate elections
Two-thirds of the 81 members of the Federal Senate will be elected, the other third having been elected in 2014. Two candidates will be elected from each of the states and Federal District using majority block voting, with voters able to cast two votes each.

(CURRENT SEATS/ AT STAKE)
Government (43)


MDB (19/13)

PP (7/6)

DEM (4/1)

PR (4/3)

PSD (4/1)

PRB (2/2)

PTB (2/1)

PPS (1/1)

Opposition (17)


PT (9/7)

PSB (4/4)

PDT (3/1)

PCdoB (1/1)

REDE (1/1)

Independent (21)


PSDB (12/7)

PODE (3/1)

Independent (1/0)

PROS (1/0)

PTC (1/0)

Chamber of Deputies elections

All 513 members of the Chamber of Deputies (federal deputies) will be elected, with candidates elected from 27 multi-member constituencies corresponding to the states and Federal District, varying in size from eight to 70 seats. The Chamber elections are held using open list proportional representation, with seats allocated using the simple quotient.



PT 61

MDB 51

PP 50

PSDB 49

DEM 43

PR 40

PSD 37

PSB 26

PRB 21

PDT 19

PODE 17

PTB 16

PROS 11

SD 10

PCdoB 10

PSC 9

PSL 8

PPS 8

PSOL 6

AVANTE 5

PATRI 5

PHS 4

PV 3

REDE 2

PPL 1

OPINION POLLS
 
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SoundCheck

SoundCheck

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,489
RESULTS LIVE

Presidential Results

Bolsonaro 46,16% (Qualified for the second round
Haddad 29,09% (Qualified for the second round)
Ciro 12,49%
Geraldo 4,77%
Amoêdo 2,5%
Cabo Daciolo 1,26%
Meirelles 1,2%
Marina 1%
Urns Cleared: 99%
 
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SoundCheck

SoundCheck

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,489
Chamber of Deputies 2019
PT 56
PSL 52
PP 37
MDB 34
PSD 34
PR 33
PSB 32
PRB 30
DEM 29
PSDB 29
PDT 28
SD 13
PODE 11
PSOL 10
PTB 10
PCdoB 9
NOVO 8
PPS 8
PROS 8
PSC 7
AVANTE 7
PHS 6
PATRIOTAS 5
PRP 4
PV 4
PMN 3
PTC 2
DC 1
PPL 1
REDE 1
 
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Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,607
Brazil
TL:DR : The brazilian voting system for president is based on majority of voters and if nobody reachers 51% of voters in the first round, we get a second round with the 1st and 2nd place only. This means that everyone that voted for the weird politiciais that are awesome but have no chance (<3 Boulos) can vote against the fascist.
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
Wait, how is Haddad doing so well.

He had a 17% approval rating as... mayor and then lost an election two years ago.

Him being tied for the lead in the runoff is throwing me for a loop right now coming from US politics.

I mean, I hope he wins, of course. Bolsonaro is a horrible person.
 
OP
OP
SoundCheck

SoundCheck

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,489
Wait, how is Haddad doing so well.

He had a 17% approval rating as... mayor and then lost an election two years ago.

Him being tied for the lead in the runoff is throwing me for a loop right now coming from US politics.

I mean, I hope he wins, of course. Bolsonaro is a horrible person.

Lula is tranferring his votes to him
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,607
Brazil
Hey SoundCheck you forgot that the plans for Bolsonaro goverment mention Social Marxism

"Vice: Katia Chainsaw (PDT)"

Is that really her name?

No, it is Katia Abreu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kátia_Abreu

But she is famous for being super in favor of the political lobby of cutting the amazonian forest till there is nothing left.

Wait, how is Haddad doing so well.

He had a 17% approval rating as... mayor and then lost an election two years ago.

Him being tied for the lead in the runoff is throwing me for a loop right now coming from US politics.

I mean, I hope he wins, of course. Bolsonaro is a horrible person.

Half of the country is anti-PT and half loves PT because of lula. The election he lost was too close to Dilma's impeachment and part of his low approval rating is also because he did lots of awesome stuff that the rich people hated, like decreasing maximum speed on roads and creating bike lanes. Bad thing to make rich people hate you in the richest city in the country.

Also he is pretty radical

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I mean no he is not but the shit idea that there are 2 extremes is really sad because PT is nowhere near the extreme left.
 

Smurf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,484
Wait, how is Haddad doing so well.

He had a 17% approval rating as... mayor and then lost an election two years ago.

Him being tied for the lead in the runoff is throwing me for a loop right now coming from US politics.

I mean, I hope he wins, of course. Bolsonaro is a horrible person.
PT had a pretty smart strategy. They launched Lula as their candidate, even tho he is in jail and wouldn't be allowed to run, getting Haddad on the ticket to get some recognition. After Lula was prohibited from running, they just replaced him with Haddad and that was that.
 

Seyken

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5
When you see some people rooting for the guy who was appointed by someone that is in jail because of corruption, you know things are messed up.

I'm not saying Bolsonaro is a paragon of justice and good manners, but come on guys, you're better than that.
 

Bluelote

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,024
I don't see Bolsonaro losing this, almost everyone I know will vote for him, some love him, and are really enthusiastic, some say they are voting because he is the only option against PT...
it's sad.
all of them also have something else in common, WhatsApp is their main source of info, it's pretty crazy the amount of worshiping and false news going on.

the main question is if he is winning in the 1st or 2nd round
 

Bradbury

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,853
When you see some people rooting for the guy who was appointed by someone that is in jail because of corruption, you know things are messed up.

I'm not saying Bolsonaro is a paragon of justice and good manners, but come on guys, you're better than that.
Bolsonaro is a piece of shit and a terrible human being, he´s literally trash
I would prefer having Lula being president from inside jail than having Bolsonaro anywhere near being president. And I´m not even a great fan of PT or Lula.
Is just literally anything is better than an homophobic, racist, and torture lover that will throw humans right in the trash
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,607
Brazil
When you see some people rooting for the guy who was appointed by someone that is in jail because of corruption, you know things are messed up.

I'm not saying Bolsonaro is a paragon of justice and good manners, but come on guys, you're better than that.

Not only is he literally being compared to hittler by foreign magazines

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/0...l-latin-america-populism-argentina-venezuela/

The liberalism bible is saying his economic plans are a disaster

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/09/20/jair-bolsonaro-latin-americas-latest-menace

But of course I would love to vote for a third option but if the most corrupt politician in the world goes against the dude in the second round ... I have zero problems in not voting for the fascist.

Oh and he wants to put guns in the hands of everyone in the most violent country in the world that ALREADY kills women and LGBT people by the dozens without guns. And as both, I want people who hate me to be as far away as possible from guns
 

Smurf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,484
When you see some people rooting for the guy who was appointed by someone that is in jail because of corruption, you know things are messed up.

I'm not saying Bolsonaro is a paragon of justice and good manners, but come on guys, you're better than that.
Here they come..

Better a crook than a fascist.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,216
Brazil
Bolsonaro supporters actively ignore every single evidence against his alleges upstanding morals, no matter how substantial they are. They'll vehemently deny pretty much everything you show them. "That's fake news! That's edited! That's not what he meant! You need context! Where's the full video? He didn't say that!" At the same time, they'll embrace everything that discredits the opposition no matter how absurd it is.

Honestly though, it's pretty much useless to accuse Bolsonaro of being misogynistic, homophobic, racist and fascist to his supporters because most of them see those things as good traits. They are covertly racist, homophobic and misogynistic, and they feel validated and enabled when a politician openly gives voice to their views. Bolsonaro's high percentages in polls speak more about the average Brazilian than we think.

I'm going with Ciro in the first round because I honestly believe he's the most qualified guy to run things well while not shafting the poor nor letting corporations fuck workers in the ass. I'm going with Haddad in the second round for the simple fact that we can't let a Nazi win.

"We'll make a country for the majorities. The minorities must bow to the majorities. Our laws must protect the majorities. The minorities either conform or just disappear."
 

Madison

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,388
Lima, Peru
Well, hopefully Haddad wont fuck up Brasil because if he does Bolsonaro has a decent chance of getting the presidency next time
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,122
Bolsonaro seems like a disgusting human being and political fascist...It will be repulsive if Brazil's votes him in.
 

Bradbury

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,853
I just want to sit in my dark room and cry. Seeing people that I used to love like my father and friends just falling in love for a guy that wants me dead. I just can´t deal with this country anymore. And I used to believe it was getting better
 

Seyken

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5
User Banned (Permanent)- Defending Fascism
Do you people even know what fascism means?

The guy has gone on record SEVERAL times stating that the main takeaway that he wants people to have from his mandate is a more liberal economy, and to give less power to the state than we have right now, to decentralize things and to focus on basic education.

Plus, I'm guessing you all live in this fantasy land part of Brazil where everyday violence hasn't been a thing for the last 16 years that PT has been in charge. People have been crying out for harsher measures for the longest time, only to have those cries falling in deaf ears that only know how to say that "everything's fine", or that things "are being taken care of" but never are.

Everything is coming to a boiling point in this election. Bolsonaro is, for better or worse, the guy who is promising some very real changes. If those will turn out to be good or bad remains to be seen. I've decided to take this leap of faith because I know what the last 16 years and right now feel like, and it sucks.
 

Deleted member 9932

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,711
Every brazilian immigrant I've talked here in Portugal, but one, are in favor of Bolsonaro. Crazy shit is going to happen :/
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,216
Brazil
I just want to sit in my dark room and cry. Seeing people that I used to love like my father and friends just falling in love for a guy that wants me dead. I just can´t deal with this country anymore. And I used to believe it was getting better
Don't lose hope, my friend. If things go bad, let's all move to South America's Canada (Uruguay)! I want to believe many of our friends and relatives don't support Bolsonaro's views but instead (wrongly) believe he wants to change things and be a honest politician. Pretty much all of my uncles are supporting him, my dad is the only one that hates Bolsonaro.
 
OP
OP
SoundCheck

SoundCheck

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,489
Do you people even know what fascism means?

The guy has gone on record SEVERAL times stating that the main takeaway that he wants people to have from his mandate is a more liberal economy, and to give less power to the state than we have right now, to decentralize things and to focus on basic education.

Plus, I'm guessing you all live in this fantasy land part of Brazil where everyday violence hasn't been a thing for the last 16 years that PT has been in charge. People have been crying out for harsher measures for the longest time, only to have those cries falling in deaf ears that only know how to say that "everything's fine", or that things "are being taken care of" but never are.

Everything is coming to a boiling point in this election. Bolsonaro is, for better or worse, the guy who is promising some very real changes. If those will turn out to be good or bad remains to be seen. I've decided to take this leap of faith because I know what the last 16 years and right now feel like, and it sucks.
Stop. Bolsonaro is the definition of fascism.
 

Bradbury

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,853
Do you people even know what fascism means?

The guy has gone on record SEVERAL times stating that the main takeaway that he wants people to have from his mandate is a more liberal economy, and to give less power to the state than we have right now, to decentralize things and to focus on basic education.

Plus, I'm guessing you all live in this fantasy land part of Brazil where everyday violence hasn't been a thing for the last 16 years that PT has been in charge. People have been crying out for harsher measures for the longest time, only to have those cries falling in deaf ears that only know how to say that "everything's fine", or that things "are being taken care of" but never are.

Everything is coming to a boiling point in this election. Bolsonaro is, for better or worse, the guy who is promising some very real changes. If those will turn out to be good or bad remains to be seen. I've decided to take this leap of faith because I know what the last 16 years and right now feel like, and it sucks.
FUCK YOU
the guy literally said that people like me and some of my best friends have to be beat as kids so to be "normal"
He defended tortures in one of the darkest moments of our country.
My friends are crying and hopeless and afraid for their safety. And here you are saying that he´s a good option.
The guy is not the answer. If you want something new vote for Ciro.

I don´t even know why I´m losing my time talking with you. Be happy being a sheep for one of the worst human beings I ever had to hear talk.

You and anyone voting in him are just evil. So fuck you.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,607
Brazil
Do you people even know what fascism means?

How about german analysts ... do they know something about fascism?

https://www.dw.com/en/german-firms-...democracy-and-dictatorship-lightly/a-45249856

The Association of Ethical Shareholders Germany is expressing its concern about companies' silence on the far-right presidential candidate Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil.

The association — whose members use shares in companies registered on the German stock index to prod businesses toward responsible stances on human rights and environmental protection — has labeled the politician a "fascist."
 

Bluelote

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,024
Every brazilian immigrant I've talked here in Portugal, but one, are in favor of Bolsonaro. Crazy shit is going to happen :/

it's sad but all the other candidates (one of which is receiving my vote) failed to gain any momentum and PT is just a mess, extremely corrupt and unwilling to accept that they've made mistakes and completely reliant on "Saint Lula", it's just impossible to go that route for a lot of people... so... we just have to watch this mess unfold, and hope for the best, maybe things will be better in 2022...
 

Smurf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,484
Do you people even know what fascism means?
Oh yeah, the guy that praises torturers said that the biggest problem with the military dictatorship was it didn't kill enough people is not a fascist somehow..

Maybe in those new books he wants in the school curriculum, he won't be one.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,607
Brazil
Every brazilian immigrant I've talked here in Portugal, but one, are in favor of Bolsonaro. Crazy shit is going to happen :/

....why are they in portugal then?

Isn't the portugal goverment super leftist, with all drugs not criminalized and abortion legal ?

Oh yeah, the guy that praises torturers said that the biggest problem with the military dictatorship was it didn't kill enough people is not a fascist somehow..

Don't forget that he literally tryed to take VEJA out of circulation because he didn't like what he saw and mentioned more than once that he will not accept the results of the election and even if he came back from this, his vice president mentioned more than once that an "autocoup" might be done if necessary
 

Bluelote

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,024
....why are they in portugal then?

Isn't the portugal goverment super leftist, with all drugs not criminalized and abortion legal ?

some people who support Bolsonaro are conservatives/evangelicals who love all his opinions others just gave up hope and think he is the only solution to criminality and corruption, perhaps they are in the second group.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,216
Brazil
Plus, I'm guessing you all live in this fantasy land part of Brazil where everyday violence hasn't been a thing for the last 16 years that PT has been in charge.
I've been a correctional officer for 8 years now. Violence and crime are a daily thing in my life. I wouldn't vote for Bolsonaro if he were the last candidate alive, and I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire.
People have been crying out for harsher measures for the longest time, only to have those cries falling in deaf ears that only know how to say that "everything's fine", or that things "are being taken care of" but never are.
Because harsher measures don't do shit. The prison I work at has a maximum capacity of 760 inmates, and its current population is upwards of 2300. Arresting even more people and giving police officers carte blanche to kill people on the streets ain't the answer.
Bolsonaro is, for better or worse, the guy who is promising some very real changes.
You keep believing that, mate. In 28 years as a politician he didn't do shit. He ain't gonna change that far in the game.
I've decided to take this leap of faith because I know what the last 16 years and right now feel like, and it sucks.
It's gonna suck more with him on the helm. Prepare to have worker rights revoked, prepare to get accidentally shot by people not qualified for holding guns, prepare to be assaulted by hate groups and authorities dismissing it, prepare to see corruption investigations being swept under the rug, prepare to say goodbye to our Constitution.
How about german analysts ... do they know something about fascism?
I like you.
 

Jordan117

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,989
Alabammy
Every brazilian immigrant I've talked here in Portugal, but one, are in favor of Bolsonaro. Crazy shit is going to happen :/

Why the hell do so many immigrants to Western Europe support fascism back home? Same damn thing with Turkish expats overwhelmingly backing Erdogan. I figured living abroad would make people more worldly and tolerant, but OTOH I guess it's easy to downplay the dangers of authoritarian racism when you don't have to suffer the consequences.
 

Deleted member 9932

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,711
....why are they in portugal then?

Isn't the portugal goverment super leftist, with all drugs not criminalized and abortion legal ?



Don't forget that he literally tryed to take VEJA out of circulation because he didn't like what he saw and mentioned more than once that he will not accept the results of the election and even if he came back from this, his vice president mentioned more than once that an "autocoup" might be done if necessary

Very much so. Our government is supported in the parliament by communists and trotskyists. Hardcore left. They are not evangelists and they are not even traditional right wing supporters (as far as I know). Most of their arguments to support him are based on the reasons they left the country: crime, corruption, a decayed society. They think he is crazy enough to try to change something.
 

Deleted member 2328

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,354
Do you people even know what fascism means?
You must be one of those who thinks fascism started with the gas chambers. smh
it's sad but all the other candidates (one of which is receiving my vote) failed to gain any momentum and PT is just a mess, extremely corrupt and unwilling to accept that they've made mistakes and completely reliant on "Saint Lula", it's just impossible to go that route for a lot of people... so... we just have to watch this mess unfold, and hope for the best, maybe things will be better in 2022...
Yeap, from what I've talked to my Brazilian friends it just really boils down to: everyone is shit, for PT militants criticizing PT is basically heresy so they learned nothing, at least Bolsonaro is promising security.
 

Rodderick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,667
Do you people even know what fascism means?

The guy has gone on record SEVERAL times stating that the main takeaway that he wants people to have from his mandate is a more liberal economy, and to give less power to the state than we have right now, to decentralize things and to focus on basic education.

Plus, I'm guessing you all live in this fantasy land part of Brazil where everyday violence hasn't been a thing for the last 16 years that PT has been in charge. People have been crying out for harsher measures for the longest time, only to have those cries falling in deaf ears that only know how to say that "everything's fine", or that things "are being taken care of" but never are.

Everything is coming to a boiling point in this election. Bolsonaro is, for better or worse, the guy who is promising some very real changes. If those will turn out to be good or bad remains to be seen. I've decided to take this leap of faith because I know what the last 16 years and right now feel like, and it sucks.

This would be very moving if it weren't for the fact that the majority of Bolsonaro's base is composed by the richest brazilians, AKA people who don't have to live with every day violence, and who wouldn't be directly affected by arming the populace and giving the police immunity from prosecution for shooting to kill. The left is absolutely at fault for not providing concrete measures to combat violence aside from "education, job opportunities and social programs", which understandably sound very hollow to a country where lawlessness rules, but you have a center-right alternative in Geraldo Alckmin who by all accounts did a very good job as the governor of São Paulo, dramatically reducing the state's homicide and violent crime rates. Why not him as the "law and order candidate"? I think you know why.

You have decided to take this leap of faith as a general lashing out against the system. I just want to make very clear that you are responsible for the people you help elect. You can't pick apart Bolsonaro and choose only the parts of him that are more palatable while ignoring all the rest. He absolutely is homophobic. He has absolutely made racist statements. He absolutely is mysoginistic. He has defended torture. He has said that "torturing and not killing" was the military's dictatorship's biggest mistake. He has openly advocated for a coup in his first day in office. He has proposed packing the Supreme Court with 10 extra justices so "we can have a majority in there". He has already said he won't accept the results of this year's elections if he isn't the winner. He has, as mentioned above, claimed that the majority should rule over the minority, and minorities should either acquiesce to that or disappear. There is widely available video and audio evidence of every one of these assertions, so don't even bother with the "fake news" bullshit.

It's also a fact that in his 30 years in Congress he made absolutely no effort to put forth legislations to open up Brazil's markets, deregulate the economy and create a more favorable business enviroment. On the contrary, the only actual evidence we have of Bolsonaro's economic policies before his presidential bid, show a highly nationalist view, basically Ciro Gomes on steroids. Reindustrialization, public ownership of "strategic" resources and enterprises, closure of the Brazilian market to foreign goods in order to forcefully develop certain industrial sectors. That's what he always believed in. Coincidentally, that's what the PT also believes in, so it comes as absolutely no surprise that he now attempts to paint himself as a "liberal" in order to establish yet another counterpoint to the PT and make himself more palatable to the Brazilian middle class and foreign investors. His economic advisor Paulo Guedes is a Chicago Boy, but that's where his accolades start and end. He's irrelevant in academic circles and has never held public office. He's absolutely unaware of the difficulties of governing, as shown by his ludicrous proposal to sell every single state owned enteprise and Union lands in order to erase the public deficit in a single year. To anyone with a modicum of understanding of the actual value of those companies, the measures needed to their sale to be authorized, and the market interest in aquiring former government lands and buildings, this sounds brazenly fallacious. But Guedes doesn't care, because he wants to be Friedman to Bolsonaro's Pinochet.

That's the reality of your candidate. And I'm by no means a leftist. I belive in capitalism, I believe a free market system is the best way to allocate resources and reduce global poverty. I have zero love for the PT, the corruption they brought or the failed economic policies that lead to this deep recession. But I think our democracy is at stake, and I take Bolsonaro at his word. I have zero reason to believe he'll exercise any kind of self containment if elected, and I absolutely do not want to plunge blindly into the abyss in order to find out.

As for the "do you know what constitutes fascism" question, Bolsonaro is a military nationalist, believes in the use of state sponsored violence to solve confrontations, has repeatedly repudiated democratic institutions, treats his opposition as enemies of the state, believes minorities shouldn't be part of the political process, if not downright extinct. If that's not fascism, what is? He is the caricature of a modern day fascist, he's Trump at his most vile and hateful, but with absolutely no shame of completely disregarding the institutions that are in place. Every time he opens his mouth he threatens this country in some way, and I have zero reason not to believe he intends to do precisely as he says. This is (still) a representative democracy, so you're well within your rights to vote for whoever you feel presents the best alternative for your country. Just know who you're voting for, don't be intelectually dishonest in order to make it easier for you to sleep at night.
 

StrayDog

Avenger
Jul 14, 2018
2,599
This only confirm that this fucking country has no hope.

I just want to sit in my dark room and cry. Seeing people that I used to love like my father and friends just falling in love for a guy that wants me dead. I just can´t deal with this country anymore. And I used to believe it was getting better
They lack empathy...
Just make sure to make a mental note to never fully trust them.
 
Last edited:

psilocybe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,401
I just want to sit in my dark room and cry. Seeing people that I used to love like my father and friends just falling in love for a guy that wants me dead. I just can´t deal with this country anymore. And I used to believe it was getting better

It is pretty sad indeed. I cant' believe my parents and brothers are voting for him.
There is a mixture of a hate for PT (and that all parties are PT except for Bolsonaro) and some dark inner violence inside people as well.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,216
Brazil
A coup has been in the making for quite a while:

The press has been painting judge Sergio Moro as and incorruptible man and the country's salvation for years now.
- Moro illegally bugs president Dima Roussef's phone, but it's okay because he's morally incorruptible and only has the country's best interests at heart.
- Moro has Lula arrested and sent to prison without anything but questionable evidence, but it's okay becayse he's morally incorruptible and only has the country's best interests at heart.
- Good Guy Moro arrested Lula, so Lula is bad.

Later, one week before the election's first round, Moro releases a bunch of accusations against PT. Such accusations were dismissed by the Federal Public Ministry eight months before since there was no evidence to support them. Since they were dismissed, they shouldn't be made public according to Brazilian Laws. So Good Guy Moro has broken the law again, but it's okay because yadda yadda yadda.

Meanwhile, Bolsonaro avoids presidential debates on grounds of not being fully recovered from being stabbed last month, but he's completely fine to give a 45-minute long interview in which he gets to promote himself, shit on his adversaries, do damage control on whichever controversy he's got himself into the last few weeks, all while avoiding confrontation and letting his adversaries fight each other. Also, Edir Macedo, the biggest protestant leader in Brazil, leader of the Universal Church, known for resorting to abominable means of extorting money from his congregation, declares support for Bolsonaro, lets Bolsonaro do an extremely scripted 35-minute interview on his TV channel. Also, Universal Churches all across Brazil use sunday worship service to covert support Bolsonaro, making his percentages in polls skyrocket in the following monday.

Lula is kept in a black hole, fordlbidden to do interviews, while most press vehicles in the country go whatever lengths necessary to discredit the left and support Bolsonaro.
 

Memento

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,129
I am going with Ciro 12 because there is no way I can see Haddad winning over Bolsonaro on the 2nd round.

I am pretty sad tbh.

As a gay dude, it is really fucked up that I am going to have to live in a country in which the president thinks I should have been beaten by my parents for being gay.

And he is going to win.

Pretty scary.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,216
Brazil
This would be very moving if it weren't for the fact that the majority of Bolsonaro's base is composed by the richest brazilians, AKA people who don't have to live with every day violence, and who wouldn't be directly affected by arming the populace and giving the police immunity from prosecution for shooting to kill. The left is absolutely at fault for not providing concrete measures to combat violence aside from "education, job opportunities and social programs", which understandably sound very hollow to a country where lawlessness rules, but you have a center-right alternative in Geraldo Alckmin who by all accounts did a very good job as the governor of São Paulo, dramatically reducing the state's homicide and violent crime rates. Why not him as the "law and order candidate"? I think you know why.

You have decided to take this leap of faith as a general lashing out against the system. I just want to make very clear that you are responsible for the people you help elect. You can't pick apart Bolsonaro and choose only the parts of him that are more palatable while ignoring all the rest. He absolutely is homophobic. He has absolutely made racist statements. He absolutely is mysoginistic. He has defended torture. He has said that "torturing and not killing" was the military's dictatorship's biggest mistake. He has openly advocated for a coup in his first day in office. He has proposed packing the Supreme Court with 10 extra justices so "we can have a majority in there". He has already said he won't accept the results of this year's elections if he isn't the winner. He has, as mentioned above, claimed that the majority should rule over the minority, and minorities should either acquiesce to that or disappear. There is widely available video and audio evidence of every one of these assertions, so don't even bother with the "fake news" bullshit.

It's also a fact that in his 30 years in Congress he made absolutely no effort to put forth legislations to open up Brazil's markets, deregulate the economy and create a more favorable business enviroment. On the contrary, the only actual evidence we have of Bolsonaro's economic policies before his presidential bid, show a highly nationalist view, basically Ciro Gomes on steroids. Reindustrialization, public ownership of "strategic" resources and enterprises, closure of the Brazilian market to foreign goods in order to forcefully develop certain industrial sectors. That's what he always believed in. Coincidentally, that's what the PT also believes in, so it comes as absolutely no surprise that he now attempts to paint himself as a "liberal" in order to establish yet another counterpoint to the PT and make himself more palatable to the Brazilian middle class and foreign investors. His economic advisor Paulo Guedes is a Chicago Boy, but that's where his accolades start and end. He's irrelevant in academic circles and has never held public office. He's absolutely unaware of the difficulties of governing, as shown by his ludicrous proposal to sell every single state owned enteprise and Union lands in order to erase the public deficit in a single year. To anyone with a modicum of understanding of the actual value of those companies, the measures needed to their sale to be authorized, and the market interest in aquiring former government lands and buildings, this sounds brazenly fallacious. But Guedes doesn't care, because he wants to be Friedman to Bolsonaro's Pinochet.

That's the reality of your candidate. And I'm by no means a leftist. I belive in capitalism, I believe a free market system is the best way to allocate resources and reduce global poverty. I have zero love for the PT, the corruption they brought or the failed economic policies that lead to this deep recession. But I think our democracy is at stake, and I take Bolsonaro at his word. I have zero reason to believe he'll exercise any kind of self containment if elected, and I absolutely do not want to plunge blindly into the abyss in order to find out.

As for the "do you know what constitutes fascism" question, Bolsonaro is a military nationalist, believes in the use of state sponsored violence to solve confrontations, has repeatedly repudiated democratic institutions, treats his opposition as enemies of the state, believes minorities shouldn't be part of the political process, if not downright extinct. If that's not fascism, what is? He is the caricature of a modern day fascist, he's Trump at his most vile and hateful, but with absolutely no shame of completely disregarding the institutions that are in place. Every time he opens his mouth he threatens this country in some way, and I have zero reason not to believe he intends to do precisely as he says. This is (still) a representative democracy, so you're well within your rights to vote for whoever you feel presents the best alternative for your country. Just know who you're voting for, don't be intelectually dishonest in order to make it easier for you to sleep at night.
This might be the most important post and in this whole thread and everyone should read it. Please, everyone.
 

Dracon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
348
No matter who you wants to win, we can be sure that we can go civil war that the world wont do shit for us, just look at Venezuela and world reaction.

If left or right ideologies take us to that level of chaos, we will be on our own, but we sort of deserve it :(
 

Ashton

Member
Nov 6, 2017
13
A coup has been in the making for quite a while:

The press has been painting judge Sergio Moro as and incorruptible man and the country's salvation for years now.
- Moro illegally bugs president Dima Roussef's phone, but it's okay because he's morally incorruptible and only has the country's best interests at heart.
- Moro has Lula arrested and sent to prison without anything but questionable evidence, but it's okay becayse he's morally incorruptible and only has the country's best interests at heart.
- Good Guy Moro arrested Lula, so Lula is bad.
Drop it. He bugged Lula's phone, not hers.
His sentence has been confirmed by every single court above him, they even increased the prison time.
 

StrayDog

Avenger
Jul 14, 2018
2,599
No matter who you wants to win, we can be sure that we can go civil war that the world wont do shit for us, just look at Venezuela and world reaction.

If left or right ideologies take us to that level of chaos, we will be on our own, but we sort of deserve it :(

We had 12 years of PT...
Economic chaos we can deal with but.... Bolsonaro is another level of danger.
https://poenaroda.com.br/diversidad...rto-por-assassino-que-exclama-viva-bolsonaro/