Based on fucking what? A long history of making up reasons to go to war in the middle east or something?
err... nm.
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Breaking: Oil tankers torpedoed in the Persian gulf.
- Thread starter Muad'dib
- Start date
Based on fucking what? A long history of making up reasons to go to war in the middle east or something?
err... nm.
Sadam was an idiot, but our government outright fabricated justifications, directly contradicting our own intellegence. Also planted stories in the media while citing those same stories to coroborate their fake intellegence. One of our own covert agents was outed over all this.
BTW, inspections were ongoing finding almost nothing during that time, and inspectors withdrew the day before our invasion. Hans Blix said they had not found evidence of any WMD program.
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Yes based on (very recent) U.S. history. I also don't particularly trust the steady and calm-headed leadership of the Trump administration when it comes to Iran. This is mostly based on John Bolton being a long time advocate for exactly this scenario. And Trump discarding the nuclear agreement. Then more recently there was the story that he wanted to send a hundred thousand troops to Iran if they accelerated on developing nuclear technology - exactly the sort of thing the agreement he threw out would have diplomatically resolved.
There's also quite a number of tweets of Trump saying Obama was going to start a war with Iran to get re-elected. I think he's been angling for this or Venezuela for some time.
From what I've read, Bolton really wants to go to war with Iran (which is well established). The Pentagon though really does not, and is more worried about China. My feelings on Trump is that he doesn't really want an actual war, but wants to threaten and bully his way to some sort of new agreement. Thinks he's some sort of master negotiator as usual.
As for the attack, I think it's unlikely to be a direct U.S. false flag. My guess would be a rougue/independently acting element of Iran's military, or someone else (like Saudi Arabia) trying to fan the flames.
As for Bolton's claims, he already lied about having evidence last time. Said he'd present evidence to the U.N. but never did.
This is spot on. In this kind of situation, the United States and the Trump administration will not proceed with any military response unless directly attacked.
Don't forget that there are quite a few actors in the region (both state and non-state) who'd love to see Iran diminished and feel frustrated by the US not going harder and the rest of the world trading as normal with Teheran.
If it's an action meant to provoke, it doesn't follow that the US is behind it, that's a huge leap if you look at the lineup of suspects.
If it's an action meant to provoke, it doesn't follow that the US is behind it, that's a huge leap if you look at the lineup of suspects.
In general(regardless of this specific situation)
Why does North Korea do half the shit they do for example?
They even torpedoed a South Korean Navy ship and killed nearly 50 people onboard in 2010.
How exactly does that help them?
The guy orchestrating war crimes in Yemen and funding the butchery that's happening in Sudan would do such a thing like that? I don't believe it.
They are two countries at war. North Korea attacking a SK navy ship is not that surprising, they can claim the south was in their waters of trying to intimidate them thinking they would not attack or whatever. NK trying to stand up to SK's military is "normal".
Here it's an oil tanker. Not the same thing.
If there's video, it won't be long until I'm sure it will be passed along to all interested countries to verify.
What's strange is that there were US ships nearby, planes in the air, etc... If Iran planted the mines initially and removed this one to try to cover it up they'd surely realize that they'd be detected. It's baffling, particularly with them not really mentioning that either.
Do we usually watch oil tankers and other ships in that area? Also aren't they more likely to get caught pulling unexploded mines then just leaving them there?
Many countries have ships patrolling that area. If it's direct possible evidence, best to remove it. Nothing in the video says 100% it's Iranians so they say it's not them. Blame it on others, possibly Israel, UAE, Saudis and/or etc. At worst, they can say they want to "investigate" the "evidence" and find out who's trying to frame them.
Regardless of who is the culprit at the hand, Iran is not the most unlikely and not a good guy, it is interesting what already happened in context to other elements like Saudi Arabia.
There are shitton of videos and reports of Saudi Arabias goverment committing crimes. None of these videos, reports and other evidence will ever be watched under the pretext of "Does this justify a war against Saudi Arabia?" Not even sanctions are under consideration.
They also often get under the table deals to make them shut up for a while. They know this works so the keep rattling their cage periodically.
not to mention their alarming connection to the 9/11 hijackers
The EU member states wouldn't make that much distinction between Norway, an historic ally with strong economic ties compared to another member. There is no European level military to get into action, it is the mindset of 27 states that would need to be impacted. And the ones like the UK wouldn't care more about Estonia let's say than Norway.
Read this for an idea of Iran's supposed provocations. It doesn't make any sense.
I would go with Israel being the agent provocateur.
OP
OP
Interesting, but the Iranian navy was the closest to the tankers and provided assistance to the crew, does the video show that the Iranian navy is responsible or merely removing an exploded mine for safety measures. If it's the latter it doesn't implicate Iran in doing anything malicious.
I hope they will find a peaceful solution for the conflict.
UN Weapons inspectors said at the time there was no evidence for WMD in Iraq. The 'intelligence' that UKUSA had for WMD was a taxi driver from Baghdad who claimed to be a weapons scientist who wanted to defect. The description he gave of the WMD was totally fictitious, and he got it from watching the Michael Bay film The Rock.
Iran's Revolutionary Guards wanted to demonstrate that they could do serious damage in case of an escalation.
The Strait of Hormuz is the world's single most important oil passageway, it is the only route to the open ocean for one-third of the world's liquified natural gas. More attacks on oil tankers would spur a major oil price breakout.
There it is the war hawks even know they need to draft youngsters
as for the video of the supposed mine removal, I can't see any of that, did anyone saw a thing this big being removed by just that one guy pulling the rope? Also who would pull a mine to his ship? if they were insane I could see that happen
People like John Bolton are only interested in the war against Iran, not their political future. So I think they won't care about the backlash. Their biggest fear is that Trump will lose the election next year and then the window of opportunity is closed.
Haha my god this is all too obvious. Be prepared for everyone falling for it and into another pointless war again.
There it is the war hawks even know they need to draft youngsters
as for the video of the supposed mine removal, I can't see any of that, did anyone saw a thing this big being removed by just that one guy pulling the rope? Also who would pull a mine to his ship? if they were insane I could see that happen
Those aren't limpet mines. Which are small devices that a single diver can carry that are attached with magnets.
He should care about the backlash I think they are underestimating the power of the individual at this moment in time. Its much greater than it was in the 60s, which is what is about to go down. (ish)
My fucking god. We have an Iraq war defense force here. HOLY SHIT. People actually argue that Iraq was invaded in good faith. Here on Era! I can't even begin to imagine what is going on in your random average American party where people gather around and political topics come up.
They are probably blaming Bush for not attacking Iraq sooner and hoping Trump doesn't' make the same mistake with Iran and start the war yesterday.
They are probably blaming Bush for not attacking Iraq sooner and hoping Trump doesn't' make the same mistake with Iran and start the war yesterday.
From Reddit regarding false flags, interesting.
I'm so glad Spain pulled that frigate from the US-led combat group in the Persian Gulf a few weeks ago. Probably with the knowledge it would get dragged into something like this.
Those aren't limpet mines. Which are small devices that a single diver can carry that are attached with magnets.
That the kind of device that requires a frogman to install it, I don't know if Iran have people able to pull such thing and still I can't see shit from the video
He can feel however he wants, he doesnt have the power to make the impossible happen. Those who do absolutely care about their political future. The war talk is bad enough, we dont have to go over board with draft talk.
Since we're speculating wildly… Wouldn't this kind of operation (manual anonymous placement of mines), be something that a private entity could pull off? How hard would it be to get a hold of limpet mines and competent personnel for an operation like this? If an event or series of these events can drive up oil prices more or less over night, couldn't people with considerable oil investments be set to gain a lot by funding some black market mercenary types to do this? I can't figure out what the ROI would be, but I imagine price fluctuations at that level could clear a lot of cash for someone with a sizable stake in the game (either through ownership of stocks or in terms of being a rival oil producer).
I realise I'm into "plot of Die Hard 7"-territory, but what the hell.
Or wait, it's Greenpeace. Of course it is.
I realise I'm into "plot of Die Hard 7"-territory, but what the hell.
Or wait, it's Greenpeace. Of course it is.
Get some ex-frogman, seals or russian mercs, enough funding on black market you might find some old soviet stuff, for the dive material that's pretty common everywhere
