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Raijinto

self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
10,091
Yeah that amount of blue is staggering when comparing to Skyward Sword. Even more so when one considers that popular consensus was that Japanese gamers had fell out of love with Zelda and the new formula incorporated in Botw was one that would not appeal to them either.

Very well deserved success IMO.
 
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Ishaan

Ishaan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,702
Grats, well deserved.

Tho those Phantom Hourglass sales make me wanna puke!

The DS games sold way better than Link Between Worlds... Japanese Market has horrible taste. So we should not put too much weight to their sales.

More interesting is that the awful Phantom Hourglass sold so well

One needs to understand that Phantom Hourglass, like Twilight Princess, was what Zelda needed at the time.

They had tried a ton of different ideas to get Zelda to click with a broader audience at a time sales were spiralling. Multiplayer, GBA connectivity, different art styles like Wind Waker etc.

It wasn't until Phantom Hourglass's touch controls that they actually succeeded in making Japan really care about Zelda again. It's an incredibly important game as far as Zelda's current health is concerned and it's honestly very easy to see why people liked it.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
That's incredible. Zelda has long been a series with heavily western-weighted success. It says a lot when Phantom Hourglass had better sales in Japan than Twilight Princess; what Japan wanted in Zelda and what the rest of the world wanted weren't the same. But that's not the case with Breath of the Wild.

The devs all deserve a round of applause for breaking yet another trend.
 

Velezcora

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 16, 2017
3,124
Why would you think that. Zelda's a western oriented franchise through and through.

I could maybe see that with BotW with it's open-world "skyrim-esque" design but Zelda has been pretty Japanese in it's approach to it's art design, storytelling and game design.
Even Twilight Princess which had the most western art style still felt pretty anime.
So I'm not sure what about this series doesn't appeal to the Japanese audiences?

Must be the lack of grinding. LOL.
 

Celine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,030
Interesting.

I feel as though the overall media attention that resulted from its critical acclaim is a potential overlooked factor too. I also think the article downplays the involvement of the Switch. Describing the Switch as 'something inbetween a handheld and a console' is doing the system a disservice, as it's clear that many consumers see the system as fulfilling both roles competently. Effectively generating a larger audience than either handheld, or home console would have alone.
Switch being popular is definitely a prerequisite for a game on Switch expressing its full sales potential but it's not strictly the reason why BotW already outperformed Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass cause the install base for the Wii and DS at the time were bigger than what is currently for Switch (which is still very popular and still sold out).

To give you an idea look at this graph which show the consoles sales in Japan launch aligned:
2018_01_24_22_17_14.jpg
 

Nabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,422
Like what though? TP is the only one i can think of from those three franchises, but that game already very directly ties in with OOT & MM.

When people talk about a potential BotW2 they usually aren't referring to a straight sequel that re-uses its world, but to a game that directly builds up on its tech and assets. Similar to Galaxy/Galaxy 2 and OoT/MM.

I definitely see it happening, in any case. Switch just launched, so the Zelda team's next game will definitely still target the platform. At the same time, they'll surely want avoid another 5 year development cycle, because it would put the next Zelda once again in the awkward transition period between consoles.

I remember someone from Nintendo, possibly Aonuma, mentioning that they're looking into ways to reuse assets/systems/engine from BotW to reduce development time and not having to start from stretch again. I'd say the chances of a new 3D-Zelda in 2020/2021 are extremely likely.

Thanks for your replies, all. I guess it is just the reuse of the world itself that I was so myopically focused on. I mean, in a sense all of the Zelda games are sequels to each other, and as you said, TP is a direct tie to OOT/MM. MM to me a more wildly different game from OOT than SMG2 is to SMG1, but maybe that is my memory failing me since I haven't played SMG2 since it came out in 2010 and I remember thinking at the time about that splendid entry that it was by no means a mere level pack expansion. I guess my only real concern about a straight sequel is that (a) I find the story of BOTW to be the least interesting console Zelda story to me and (b) I think using the same world would very possibly be a mistake. So, since we all seem to agree that it could be an OOT/MM situation where neither of those would be a concern, I will gladly agree since I do think the hard work put into BOTW will be reutilized as much as possible, and that a new 3D Zelda could come in 3-4 years.
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,471
Switch being popular is definitely a prerequisite for a game expressing its full sales potential but it's not strictly the reason why BotW already outperformed Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass cause the install base for the Wii and DS at the time were bigger than what is currrently for Switch (which is still very popular and still sold out).

To give you an idea look at this graph which show the consoles sales in Japan launch aligned:

That's interesting.

Though I still think it's a stretch to suggest that it's because of the open world design, there are so many other variables here. First, the comparison to Phantom Hourglass seems a little off, as I would expect the isometric and home console Zelda titles to have at least partially distinct audiences. Additionally, I would not be surprised if the demographic purchasing the Wii were not distinct from the Switch, and other Nintendo platforms, potentially with less overlap with Zelda's target audience.

It would be very difficult to suggest any individual component of Zelda's design was a predictor of these sales.
 

ArachosiA

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
818
Great to hear it's doing so well. I'm 115 hours in and more addicted than ever. I hate that the dungeons are basically gone as they were what I always loved about Zelda, but the game is sooo good even without them.

So BOTW 2 being basically a sure thing... that world is so huge, I only see 2 possibilities for making a sequel before Switch 2 or whatever. Either a) they reuse the map, but make it pre-apocalypse, or b) the sequel comes out in 4 or 5 years and is released on Switch 1 and 2 (just like TP and BOTW).

The problem with the first scenario is that all the shrines and korok seeds and whatnot are hidden in very intentional places in BOTW. If they reused the map, I don't think they could just keep everything in the same place, because discovering them was half the fun. But I'm not sure there are too many logical options for moving everything around on the same map.

I think the second scenario makes more sense, because they can maximize sales on the Switch at its peak install base while also jumpstarting sales for their next console.

I guess a 3rd possibility is making a smaller scale BOTW sequel. I think it will be quite a while before we know what Nintendo is planning on doing.
 

Revolsin

Usage of alt-account.
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,373
Really shows the effect of highly positive word-of-mouth. No other game, including the ones on high-selling consoles, were able to leg it out this well.
 

wrowa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,373
That's interesting.

Though I still think it's a stretch to suggest that it's because of the open world design, there are so many other variables here. First, the comparison to Phantom Hourglass seems a little off, as I would expect the isometric and home console Zelda titles to have at least partially distinct audiences. Additionally, I would not be surprised if the demographic purchasing the Wii were not distinct from the Switch, and other Nintendo platforms, potentially with less overlap with Zelda's target audience.

It would be very difficult to suggest any individual component of Zelda's design was a predictor of these sales.
Even under the assumption that BotW's sales worldwide are propelled by the popularity of Switch, it can't be understated that BotW literally was one of the main reasons for Switch's early popularity to begin with (in the international markets much more so than in Japan). People bought a Switch because they wanted to play BotW -- a lot of the other recent Zelda games didn't have that effect on their respective hardware. The reason for BotW's increased appeal definitely has to be searched in its game design. BotW redefining Zelda (incorporating a lot of modern game design sensibilities in the process) definitely is a key reason why it piqued people's curiosity more than its predecessors.
 

StormEagle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
673
One needs to understand that Phantom Hourglass, like Twilight Princess, was what Zelda needed at the time.

They had tried a ton of different ideas to get Zelda to click with a broader audience at a time sales were spiralling. Multiplayer, GBA connectivity, different art styles like Wind Waker etc.

It wasn't until Phantom Hourglass's touch controls that they actually succeeded in making Japan really care about Zelda again. It's an incredibly important game as far as Zelda's current health is concerned and it's honestly very easy to see why people liked it.
Firstly to distance myself from the other quoted posters: I never said the DS games are bad, 'cause they are not, I just like them the least.
To explain my post and standpoint:
Phantom Hourglass might have been the game that was needed, because it hit the taste of the Japanese Market, I won't dispute that. But the Japanese Market liking this style so much more than the superb Link Between Worlds proves to me that their taste is very different (and imo worse) than my taste. So I extrapolate that Japanese Sales do not match my perception of quality. Breath of the Wild on the other hand is a good Zelda game that sells well in Japan. So the Japanese Markets taste does not go counter to Zelda game Quality. It is just completely uncorrelated and thus meaningless.
 
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Ishaan

Ishaan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,702
That's interesting.

Though I still think it's a stretch to suggest that it's because of the open world design, there are so many other variables here. First, the comparison to Phantom Hourglass seems a little off, as I would expect the isometric and home console Zelda titles to have at least partially distinct audiences. Additionally, I would not be surprised if the demographic purchasing the Wii were not distinct from the Switch, and other Nintendo platforms, potentially with less overlap with Zelda's target audience.

It would be very difficult to suggest any individual component of Zelda's design was a predictor of these sales.

I don't think we're suggesting that it was solely or largely the open-world design. If you read the article it says that there are three factors that need to be taken into consideration:
  • The portable nature of the Switch
  • Promotional activities around Zelda's 25th anniversary (including re-releases on 3DS) in recent years
  • The fact that open-world games have historically managed to find success among a certain audience in Japan
Naturally, word-of-mouth and other factors play a role as well. In terms of these other factors, I'd say the following are also involved:
  • A "cool" Link that makes the game more appealing to women. (Ocarina's Adult Link was also designed with this in mind)
  • An appealing visual style that strikes a great balance between realistic (body proportions) and stylized (colour palette)
  • The increasing willingness of Japanese consumers to try Western-style games
  • Etc.
Ultimately, it's interesting because 3DS is also a portable platform and had a re-release of the last best-selling Zelda on it. Ocarina 3D has sold around 630,000 units. Meanwhile, Wii, which was their last major home console success, had the immensely popular Twilight Princess, which is also only at 560,000 units sold in Japan.

Both of those games are thought of as being more "suited" to the Japanese market because they're fairly linear in nature. Breath of the Wild was considered ill-suited to the market because it was a more open-ended game, and the kind of game that Nintendo felt was turning Japanese players off.

It's also why Super Mario Odyssey's success is a big deal.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
8,617
Wonder how much portability factored into it.

Wonder if BOtw2 will have multiplayer in some way. Seems like it would be smart for Japan
 

LegendofLex

Member
Nov 20, 2017
5,465
Wonder how much portability factored into it.

Wonder if BOtw2 will have multiplayer in some way. Seems like it would be smart for Japan

I was really surprised when the game we got didn't have Souls-like multiplayer + more "monster hunts" a la the large overworld bosses.

Those two things seem like they'd be good and natural additions to a follow-up game.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
46,990
Switch being popular is definitely a prerequisite for a game on Switch expressing its full sales potential but it's not strictly the reason why BotW already outperformed Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass cause the install base for the Wii and DS at the time were bigger than what is currently for Switch (which is still very popular and still sold out).

To give you an idea look at this graph which show the consoles sales in Japan launch aligned:
2018_01_24_22_17_14.jpg

the spike for that orange line is going to be SCARY if Japan gets Pokemon, Animal Crossing and Fire Emblem this year.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,367
BotW is going to sell millions and millions worldwide. Wouldn't surprise me if it set regional records everywhere.
 

LegendofLex

Member
Nov 20, 2017
5,465
Yeah. I don't want them to ruin the game's design to accommodate multiplayer, but hopefully they can integrate it.
I don't see why you couldn't have the exact same game that we got in BotW, just with multiple players in the same space, fighting the same monsters and using the same runes to work together on the same puzzles. There are so many instances in BotW where the puzzles would have been much easier with a second person to manage some aspect of the environment while the other focused on manipulating the object needed to solve the puzzle.
 

Rotimi

Banned
Dec 25, 2017
1,758
Jos , Nigeria
Congrats to Nintendo. Always thought Zelda was big in Japan, then i started reading Gaf. Hopefully it beats ocarina of time sales, it deserves it
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,297
I know this may sound weird, but I feel like the art style is probably really appealing in Japan and got a lot of interest for the game. It's the most beautiful and Japanese-inspired Zelda yet

Twilight Princess', on the other hand...
 

mute

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,073
Probably has a ways to go still. Hope they make the most of it.
 

amstradcpc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,768
I remember someone from Nintendo, possibly Aonuma, mentioning that they're looking into ways to reuse assets/systems/engine from BotW to reduce development time and not having to start from stretch again. I'd say the chances of a new 3D-Zelda in 2020/2021 are extremely likely.
They must use the same engine not only for Zelda but for their other projects. Is a technical marvel.
 

Deleted member 3017

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,653
It will eventually become the best selling Zelda game in the entire series, globally.

Not sure it will be able to outsell the original in Japan though.
 

RootPith

Member
Dec 21, 2017
261
From an earlier interview I felt like Eiji Aonuma felt pretty sad deep down because LoZ isn't doing great in his homeland. In Japan, 1 Million copies is something only few franchises can hope to achieve nowadays, its huge for Zelda. Aonuma-san and Fujibayashi-san must be proud and fulfilled.
 

phantomx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,801
I don't think we can say this with any certainty. The only 3D Zelda sequel we have seen is Majora's Mask, and that was so significantly different from OOT that it may as well not have been a sequel in terms of gameplay and world. (That's no knock on the game, it's one of my faves.) Given Nintendo's frequently stated wish (and Aonuma's, if I recall correctly) to make each new entry significantly fresh and unique, I think (and personally hope) the next game will be at least aesthetically and world-wise very different, and very possibly not a direct sequel to BOTW.

He also said he wanted to re use the BotW engine a lot....so like Majora's Mask being a new Zelda game based on OoT's engine/template, I expect some sort of Zelda game based on the BotW engine in the next 2 years.
 

Nabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,422
He also said he wanted to re use the BotW engine a lot....so like Majora's Mask being a new Zelda game based on OoT's engine/template, I expect some sort of Zelda game based on the BotW engine in the next 2 years.
Do you have a source for that? I think fit was discussed above and mentioned that he never said specifically that it would be reused for Zelda games, just for Nintendo development more generally. But, not that I would doubt that. I'm all for a MM take, especially with a smaller world.
 

phantomx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,801
Do you have a source for that? I think fit was discussed above and mentioned that he never said specifically that it would be reused for Zelda games, just for Nintendo development more generally. But, not that I would doubt that. I'm all for a MM take, especially with a smaller world.

No source on using the BotW engine for another Zelda game, no. Just in general.

But, there is no way they aren going to wait 6-10 years and re invent Zelda again with nothing in between

There are going to be 3D Zelda games using the BotW engine. I mean, there is no good arguement or precedent as to why they wouldn't
 
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Ishaan

Ishaan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,702
Regarding a multiplayer Zelda in the next few years: I think this is rather likely. Aonuma himself has said he'd like to do it, using everything they learnt from BOTW.

"Aonuma to IGN: I would like to take what I learned from Breath of the Wild and see if we can somehow fuse those learning points into another multiplayer Zelda. For example, with Triforce Heroes, which followed a similar format of Four Swords, there was a multiplayer involved in that game. That's definitely a possibility and we will continue to [experiment] throughout the Zelda franchise."

I do feel taking Zelda multiplayer in Japan to see what happens would be something worth trying. The question is, what kind of game would it need to be? The easy answer is "Monster Hunter" but I don't know if Nintendo would care to develop MH with a Zelda skin and call it a day. I'd imagine they would like it to be a little more interesting than that.
 

jman2050

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,795
I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually becomes the best-selling Zelda title of all time in Japan. It's a tall order though, it'll be interesting to track its progress over the next several years.
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,039
Pennsylvania
Regarding a multiplayer Zelda in the next few years: I think this is rather likely. Aonuma himself has said he'd like to do it, using everything they learnt from BOTW.



I do feel taking Zelda multiplayer in Japan to see what happens would be something worth trying. The question is, what kind of game would it need to be? The easy answer is "Monster Hunter" but I don't know if Nintendo would care to develop MH with a Zelda skin and call it a day. I'd imagine they would like it to be a little more interesting than that.

If I'm not mistaken the hooks are already in BOTW to play it with more than one person, the wiiu version on emulators is capable of doing it. So I wouldn't be surprised at all if 'BOTW2' has multiple players.


Good on Zelda for killing it, game is great.
 

Ryouji Gunblade

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
4,151
California
Very well deserved. It's an easy 10/10 and nearly a 100/100 game.

Just refine the formula to include more of what we missed from the old games. Enemies, memorable NPCs, themed dungeons, etc.