https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/may-team-second-referendum-soft-brexit?bftwuk&utm_term=4ldqpgmTheresa May's Team Has Discussed A Second Referendum Or A Softer Brexit If Her Deal Is Killed Next Week
Some of Theresa May's Downing Street advisers have urged her to consider a second referendum while others have argued for a softer Brexit, BuzzFeed News has learned, as splits emerge in the prime minister's top team on how to respond in the likely event that her deal is rejected by MPs next week.
Number 10 has insisted there is no plan B if May's deal fails, but as Westminster counts down to Tuesday's meaningful vote on the withdrawal agreement, conversations have taken place between the PM and her closest aides about how she could proceed if it is voted down.
BuzzFeed News understands that several of the PM's senior allies have raised the prospect of another referendum, with voters offered a choice between her deal and remaining in the EU. Those sympathetic to the idea believe she could win by guaranteeing an end to free movement and have said it is the only way she will be able to secure a mandate for her exit plan.
A source familiar with the conversations said May's chief of staff Gavin Barwell and chief whip Julian Smith have discussed the merits of a second referendum.
But the source said May has vociferously opposed the idea of another public vote whenever it has been raised, because she believes it is her duty to fulfil the result of the 2016 referendum and cannot risk Brexit being reversed. "It is the only time she loses her temper and raises her voice," they said. Downing Street declined to comment on private conversations.
The other option being discussed by May's allies is softening the deal so she could win the backing of Conservative Remainers and Labour MPs in a second vote. Several cabinet ministers are pushing for a Norway-style plan B, with the UK remaining inside the single market.
It has previously been assumed that May would never countenance a Norway-style deal because it would mean continuing freedom of movement, which has been seen as a red line she will not cross. One of May's closest aides told BuzzFeed News earlier this year that both he and the PM would resign rather than accept free movement.
But May's doubts about a second referendum have led colleagues to believe she could seek a softer Brexit rather than risk no Brexit at all, even though she believes it would be a worse outcome than her deal. "As bad as EEA is, at least it's leaving," said a Whitehall source, referring to membership of the European Economic Area.
May has previously publicly ruled out both a Norway-style Brexit and a second referendum, and the catch-22 scenario has led both Leave and Remain Tories to conclude the PM has run out of road.
A Remain-voting cabinet minister is planning for an imminent leadership contest and has made offers of jobs to both prominent Remainers and Brexiteers.
If May loses Tuesday's vote by a significant margin, Tory MPs on both the Leave and Remain sides expect her to either resign or face a leadership challenge.
Tory Leavers told BuzzFeed News that if she lost by a small margin, they would demand she goes back to Brussels and attempt to renegotiate the backstop arrangement. They said she would be ousted if she attempted to hold a second referendum or soften the deal.
A former cabinet minister said: "Theresa and this government had one job: to deliver the will of the people by delivering Brexit. If they fail to deliver on that, it's not just game over for Theresa, it's game over for the Tories. She either has to go back to Brussels and say no to the backstop or it's no deal. Or, if she's unwilling to do that, we need someone that will. Anything less, and the Tory party is finished."
A second former minister said: "I'm not sure she can or should stay on after she loses the meaningful vote. She's lost all power and all control. For two years she hasn't listened to her party and so now they no longer listen to her. The fundamental problem is no one trusts her. If she stays, she continues to split the party."
The view in cabinet is that, if May's deal is rejected but she does stay on, a second referendum and a softer Brexit are her only two realistic options. Ministers have concluded that any attempt by May to renegotiate the backstop would fail, that a no-deal Brexit would cause mass cabinet resignations and be blocked by parliament, and that Tory MPs would prevent her from calling a general election.
Both a second referendum and a softer Brexit are looked upon grimly by May's aides, who now fear they won't be able to deliver on their promises to voters. "It has come to the point where you feel like you are in that Mitchell and Webb sketch when one of the Nazis looks at the other and asks, 'Are we the baddies?'" said a Number 10 aide.
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BREXIT |OT| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Would you like some red velvet cake?
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...yn-general-election-brexit-labour-theresa-may
No, you can't have any you idiot because it's not possible.
Why can't they be bloody honest, Brexit is shit, let's not do it because we have the best deal already......if we must, ask the question.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...yn-general-election-brexit-labour-theresa-may
No, you can't have any you idiot because it's not possible.
Why can't they be bloody honest, Brexit is shit, let's not do it because we have the best deal already......if we must, ask the question.
I'm okay with Labour negotiating something that wouldn't be complete suicide just for the sake of it and then putting it to a second ref.
I've said before but if you have to "leave" let's at least do it in a way that just makes us look like arseholes not actually cripple people.
The bigger issue for Labour is they go and get a deal and then what? I don't think anyone is going to campaign for remain because why would you make the effort then say don't vote for it.
I've said before but if you have to "leave" let's at least do it in a way that just makes us look like arseholes not actually cripple people.
The bigger issue for Labour is they go and get a deal and then what? I don't think anyone is going to campaign for remain because why would you make the effort then say don't vote for it.
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The best way out of this mess is to let it collapse upon itself with the tories running the show, Corbyn being a bit deluded/playing daft helps in my opinion. I don't think he has a cunning plan or anything but he's not giving the Brexit mob any easy excuses for their failure.
Burn it all down because you have to deliver the result. Isn't she nice. I don't think she will ever be unthroned while Brexit is still a thing, nobody wants that hanging around their neck and the party wouldn't put someone like Boris, Gov, Raab in charge. They are up shit creek.
I still don't understand why a 2nd Referendum is a bad thing other than a loss for either side. It's clearly a huge issue, we know more than we ever did two years ago, the reality isn't completely clear but clear enough. It's still the people's choice, you aren't forcing them to vote one way or another, you still have a say in the end. They either fear people will vote leave again or vote remain, I dunno, they could hypothetically wiggle out of this and remain without the need of a 2nd Referendum but is that what Tories want deep down, 4D chess? I wonder if they did a 60/40 threshold and if neither choice got 60 then remain is default.
I think she will back down, she likes being in number 10.
The national interest will suddenly be about her finding a way forward to unite the nation, or some other load of old bollocks.
She's just going to do it the hard way and suffer another humiliating vote first.
If you didn't hear the show, he also thinks IT people simply used it to scam the taxpayer out of millions.
Save people from drowning, "see there was no need to save me, I'm fine.".
The idea that IT companies would need to make up stories to get millions from the government for doing nothing is surprisingly even funnier than him thinking the millennium bug was fake news.
Tory rebels seem to have rejected May's "compromise" anyway.
I'm slightly worried though, the number of times theses rebellions have turned to nothing in the hours before a vote is crazy, when push comes to shove the Tories just want to save their own skin... But this one does seem different though... Even if she convinces a few, she should still be facing a heavy defeat.
The stupid part of it is is that this was all predicted the morning after the last GE, when she lost her majority, but being the "bloody difficult woman" she is, she has wasted 18 months getting here
I'm slightly worried though, the number of times theses rebellions have turned to nothing in the hours before a vote is crazy, when push comes to shove the Tories just want to save their own skin... But this one does seem different though... Even if she convinces a few, she should still be facing a heavy defeat.
The stupid part of it is is that this was all predicted the morning after the last GE, when she lost her majority, but being the "bloody difficult woman" she is, she has wasted 18 months getting here
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...o-deal-brexit-by-shifting-13bn-to-netherlands
thingsarelookinggood.gif
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This is the kind of Orwellian nanny state shit which should have the Tories shitting bricks, but somehow I think they'll find a way to ignore it.
Warning of food shortages in Ireland.
That's right, we're at the 'lets threaten Ireland with starvation to get a better deal' stage of proceedings. What a wonderful thing.
That's right, we're at the 'lets threaten Ireland with starvation to get a better deal' stage of proceedings. What a wonderful thing.
As well as being an absolutely despicable threat, it's also apparently totally empty as Ireland is much more food secure than the UK. But trust the Brexiteers to look at the Irish famine and think, hmm, we did it once before we can do it again, without any thought that maybe the world has changed. Terrible people one and all, but so goddamn stupid as well.
Yes I saw that story on Reddit this morning. We'll be fine over here, thanks.
The UK, Ireland and "food shortages" should never be uttered by British politicians in any negotiation.
The UK, Ireland and "food shortages" should never be uttered by British politicians in any negotiation.
So the first tinker with WA had been rejected by brexiteers, today May will see if they would be happy with an annual vote of going into back stop or extending the status quo (sshh nobody tell the EU)
As I have said previously, May will be trying to cut the size of the defeat, this is now her sole purpose, she will then go back to the EU to get them to tinker as well, the idea being a second vote gets through...
As I have said previously, May will be trying to cut the size of the defeat, this is now her sole purpose, she will then go back to the EU to get them to tinker as well, the idea being a second vote gets through...
Yep, very real according reports...she is trying to find a way to get brexiteers onside. So is trying to give them a say
It's been obvious medicines are going to be a problem since discussions began, but it's been ignored and now someone like Anna Soubry gets to decide whether or not the proles are worthy of their treatments when a limited supply could go to a rich patient instead. Amazing.
A new fucking low for British-Irish relations.
Top marks for anyone who can point out how disgusting the British government threatening Irish food supply is in a historical context.....
Top marks for anyone who can point out how disgusting the British government threatening Irish food supply is in a historical context.....
This is like watching idiotic inception:
The idea that the UK in a no deal brexit scenario can cause famine in Ireland (I'm assuming that is the republic of Ireland, not northern Ireland) instead of basically being the other way around giving UK inability to function with the rest of the world in a no deal brexit.
The idea that using such a thing in negotiations with the EU would see the EU capitulate instead of turning aggressive and absolutely level the UK into submission by causing untold damage to the UK in a variety of ways.
The idea that given England Irish relationships it is smart to say such stupid fucking shit (also DUP coalition lol).
The idea that such massive instability at the only land border the UK has (main territory) would in any way shape or form not screw the UK.
Each time you pull a layer of stupid, you just find another one below it, the Tory party truly is a machine of perpetual stupidity.
The idea that the UK in a no deal brexit scenario can cause famine in Ireland (I'm assuming that is the republic of Ireland, not northern Ireland) instead of basically being the other way around giving UK inability to function with the rest of the world in a no deal brexit.
The idea that using such a thing in negotiations with the EU would see the EU capitulate instead of turning aggressive and absolutely level the UK into submission by causing untold damage to the UK in a variety of ways.
The idea that given England Irish relationships it is smart to say such stupid fucking shit (also DUP coalition lol).
The idea that such massive instability at the only land border the UK has (main territory) would in any way shape or form not screw the UK.
Each time you pull a layer of stupid, you just find another one below it, the Tory party truly is a machine of perpetual stupidity.
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It's the level of intelligent response I'd expect from my Year 9s. We were actually discussing Brexit today and the difficulty of solving the UK/Irish border issue and one student said 'Why can't we give Europe the whole of Ireland and simply move all the people who want to live in the UK to the Midlands?'
I explained why that might not be the best solution to the problem whilst internally banging my head on the desk.
I explained why that might not be the best solution to the problem whilst internally banging my head on the desk.
Have the Irish considered selling their children to alleviate food shortages in post-Brexit Britain?
I can't believe people keep comparing the millennium bug to Brexit lol that shit was real and IT technicians worked long and hard solving it.
Fucking Dave Cameron has really opened Pandora's box here with his stupid referendum, I'm not even sure a second referendum is the right move right atm tensions are rising.
Fucking Dave Cameron has really opened Pandora's box here with his stupid referendum, I'm not even sure a second referendum is the right move right atm tensions are rising.
Even Norway and probably others don't want the UK to join their club, lol. UK has the stink unless they wash themselves of Brexit.
Staggering that people are still ignorant and doubling down. I would like them to see reality in real life but I really don't want to go through with it just so they get to experience it, will be a lost decade or two, they may even support it afterwards just because. The government and media have done a number on the population of the UK, a land of ignorant delusional etc. parrots.
Staggering that people are still ignorant and doubling down. I would like them to see reality in real life but I really don't want to go through with it just so they get to experience it, will be a lost decade or two, they may even support it afterwards just because. The government and media have done a number on the population of the UK, a land of ignorant delusional etc. parrots.
I'd expect that sort of solution proposed by someone like Fabricant.
I think she's actually started to believe her own bullshit about will of the people, and expects some kind of uprising to save her. She's mental.
Since the 2017 Election tbh. She's acted as if she has a majority of 100 and a Tory party united behind her, rather than deal with the reality of the parliamentary situation since the election.
Its been impossible for her since then, there would always have to be a reckoning at some point and all May's managed to do is delay it till the last moment. If the vote goes ahead it's going to be a monumental defeat, one for the history books.
"Or delay - but delay to do what next? People been staring at same set of issues for 2 years "
...maybe the problem is Theresa May 🤔
...maybe the problem is Theresa May 🤔
this thread is bad enough (in a good way). I occasionally go on twitter and see what some journalists are up to but that's it, it's just too much noise until something actually happens.
I hope so. I want her legacy to just be glaring incompetence. She deserves nothing more, evil shite.
I wish the Guardian would stop picking up every tweet from Laura Kuessenberg. Most of her supposed "scoops" from the tories, read like what the tories want Laura to say, rather anything genuine she dug up. And she is all too happy to be their voice.
Was just reading the comments on the latest government warnings. Seems even government research / planning now treated as project fear.
I really need to stop going near those fucking things, because every time I read them I just want to shut down my spending, move my money to Europe and watch as these fucking idiots burn.
I really need to stop going near those fucking things, because every time I read them I just want to shut down my spending, move my money to Europe and watch as these fucking idiots burn.
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