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BREXIT |OT| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Thread starter theaface
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In her position, with her desires, wouldn't you? I half jokingly said it was going to take place on 28th March.
If Labour can't change anything, why are they voting on making no-deal more unlikely? Only the Government can initiate the other option: Revoking article 50.
Labour can't revoke Article 50, so what are they voting for?
The outcomes are:
1. vote on May's deal. If labour want to negate no-deal they have to vote on it.
2. no-deal if May's deal doesn't get a majority and the government doesn't revoke A50
3. Revoking A50, can only be done through the government
well, technically they could beg the EU to get an extension, but why should the EU do that? It also needs an agreement of all 27 states. So again, why should the EU do that. They can point at the court ruling and tell the UK to revoke A50 if they are unable to vote Brexit into law.
I do love the narrative how Labour can't do anything but on the other hand has everything in their hands.
Who thinks that?
It's all about the Tories that will rebel in the right direction as far as I can see.
And yet, unless Europe agrees to an extension, or agrees to common market 2.0 (since they've already said no tweaks to the deal on the table), it's still going to be no deal come the end of March no matter how any of these votes go.
They've got to work with Europe. The only thing the UK can unilaterally choose at this point other than May's deal, is no deal.
I sure as shit hope they're backchanneling any and all plans they've got. Because if they aren't, this is just causing more uncertainty.
I can't help but feel these two votes will just push those on the fence to vote for May's deal. I still feel May won't get the vote passed on Tuesday, but it will be tighter than it would have been.
You'd hope that there's talking going on under the table right now.
Because if not, we're about to see a car crash.
The EU has said this is the final deal based on Theresa May's red lines. If the red lines are gone, the agreement can change.
They're playing the no change card publicly to help May now but if you look at past statements they've always said that the agreement is based on what the UK (May) has told them are the conditions of the talks.
We can choose to revoke Article 50 and end this madness.
I have my fingers crossed that A: There is a plan beyond this and B: Europe are onboard with that plan.
But I'm incredibly pessimistic that those things are true.
I've seen nothing to suggest that will be put to vote, or that it'd pass if it was.
Of course that's precisely what should happen, and politicians should make the case to the country as to why it's the best thing for them, and put their own fears and ambitions second... but I don't see Labour or the Conservatives doing that. Do you?
Watch the reaction when Ken Clarke suggested extending article 50, it does not have a majority, I also don't see Labour voting for it, as Corbyn will say only if a GE is called
The Withdrawal agreement isn't going to change come what may. It's actually rather future relationship agnostic.
Labour won't call to revoke A50 (even if they did I don't think it would pass).
It'll be a second ref if it isn't a GE but a second ref on what is still unknown. If May's deal doesn't pass and there's no support for no deal it's remain or ????
It'll be a second ref if it isn't a GE but a second ref on what is still unknown. If May's deal doesn't pass and there's no support for no deal it's remain or ????
At least the satire industry is in a boom phase, got a chuckle from this:
Jeremy Corbyn to be told about Brexit
Jeremy Corbyn to be told about Brexit
Just caught up. Can't help but feel like the votes from just before the end of last year have ensured there's a confidence among the Rebels now - they know they can win and so they go for it.
We still don't know what their targeted end point is though... There will probably be dozens of different desired end points and things will start to fray when these differences get put to paper in amendment form. There are currently only majorities against things not for anything.
This is such an important point. I hope enough people are paying attention.
This is true - their united front may only last so long as it is able to piss off May.
What needs to happen is a series of votes to find out what commands a majority, the problem at the moment everyone is against everything as it is not what 'they want' so we have got factions all over the place
But then the problem is people can not behave like adults, let's say a 2nd referendum is defeated , those MPs will then stamp their feet and block other ideas, similarly with those who want to leave...
Of fuck what we have here is a full on deadlock, GE election does not solve it, 2nd referendum does not solve it (unless you make it legally binding)
I think we need Guy Fawkes
But then the problem is people can not behave like adults, let's say a 2nd referendum is defeated , those MPs will then stamp their feet and block other ideas, similarly with those who want to leave...
Of fuck what we have here is a full on deadlock, GE election does not solve it, 2nd referendum does not solve it (unless you make it legally binding)
I think we need Guy Fawkes
What we need is leadership from the leader of the opposition.
I would not be surprised if a peoples vote does not get a majority. Then what do we pin our hopes on? Revoking article 50 seems even more unlikely to pass.
He can apparently stop no-deal but is powerless to revoke A50. Which makes voting Yes on May's deal the default outcome with this thinking.
Need a leader that speaks the truth with some gravitas or something. There is just too much bollocks and not enough truth, take people's issues head on and explain the fucking reality, truth and consequences, beg for forgiveness, admit you fucked up and ignored people etc. We can't get by with just leave versus remain like a football match, we need to lay out how it all it works, what the positives and negatives are, people are just pissed off instead of engaged and while I think remain is the best option, you need to get down to details and discuss it like grown ups with everyone, educate people like a school class.
Still think 2nd Ref will end up happening because nobody can decide but yeah, how do you get there, ballot question, is there two choices or whatever. What a mess.
Somehow we will get to the end, I doubt it's May's deal or No deal.
Still think 2nd Ref will end up happening because nobody can decide but yeah, how do you get there, ballot question, is there two choices or whatever. What a mess.
Somehow we will get to the end, I doubt it's May's deal or No deal.
What is the leader of the opposition supposed to do when the government and prime minister go out of their way to show contempt for parliament?
He could, you know, oppose? Rally support against a hard brexit, like Cooper and Grieve are trying to do? Basically anything other than nothing, which he won't do, because he is a brexiter.
You do realise that there's absolutely nothing in his name that the Tories or DUP will vote for, right? Like, if he says the sun rises in the east and sets in the West, the Tories will vote against it.
Ah, I've always seen the Tories being in power at least until Brexit so the only chance I have thought he had was a second referendum.
If it ends up being May's deal that is down to the tories, at least there are the votes to do something else if they can agree. The only plus side of May is her love of the office, so I can see her hanging on to implement whatever Parliament manages to agree on(if anything)
clearly there are enough tory loyalists to get may's deal with the votes of labour?
Would be a massive shame if Bercow was forced out, in my opinion. Just look at the "criticisms", beyond the bullying accusations it basically comes down to allowing the house more say. Anyone outside of the government would be mad to vote against him if it were to come to that.
Yeah I was more on about Bercow not allowing shit to be allowed again. I looked up the dude that wrote the article though and yeeeeaaaahhh
Anyone pointing at Bercow flouting convention needs to take a long hard look at the current political and social climate. Hardcore Tories have hated him for years and look for any opportunity to try and land a jab. Remember this? https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-hagues-attempt-to-unseat-speaker-john-bercow
Fun game: whenever a total weapon starts speaking in a debate, look up their voting record. For example: https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25431/andrea_jenkyns/morley_and_outwood/votes
Pretty much. And it was always going to be this way, it was visible for miles ahead.
Dragging this back up from the Guardian, February 2016!
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Corbyn has what is being pegged as a major Brexit speech tomorrow, and it's sounding like an extension might end up being Labour policy before too long.
An extension is basically his best bet of avoiding a second referendum that risks stopping Brexit and forcing a GE instead.
anyone watching the sky news coverage? you can hear "out means out" and "we want brexit now" chants in the background, sounds like they're from some 50-something year old racists
it's been referred to on this channel as the "brexit crisis", which is definitely what this chapter will be called in future history textbooks. "Explain some of the contributing factors leading to the Brexit Crisis of 2019"
it's been referred to on this channel as the "brexit crisis", which is definitely what this chapter will be called in future history textbooks. "Explain some of the contributing factors leading to the Brexit Crisis of 2019"
An extension has to happen, so I'm happy if he acknowledges the need for the timetable to extend regardless of what his plan is.
If he starts talking about how many unicorns he'll demand in re-negotiations though...
It'll change nothing though. May's deal will still be unpalatable to most, and no deal will still be catastrophic.
The EU and May aren't going to suddenly be able to come up with anything better (especially she'll hold onto freedom of movement until her fingernails come off).
I suppose the extension is useful if May doesn't deliver a plan anyone agrees to once her deal is voted down and parliment takes over if I'm understanding that but on the other hand, it means more months of going around in circles wondering what cake to eat and probably the worst MEPs getting another term as leavers stamp their feet in the EU elections to stick it to the EU but falling once again for giving their manipulators a gravy train job of doing nothing. I still think there is enough track left before March 30th to get something in motion and the EU coming up with some temporary fudge to allow a 2nd Ref. Who knows, maybe there isn't enough time and push comes to shove, the UK government aren't fucking idiots and set a vote to revoke article 50 in the last week or two, no deal doesn't have to happen unless you let it.
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