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theaface

theaface

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,149
Yeah I just turned it on as that happened and was a bit bewildered that it was such a big deal.

It's Tory 101 - fake indignation by a bunch of nasty individuals who are usually the worst offenders of speaking ill of others. For other more recent examples of fake Tory indignation, see Corbyn's alleged "stupid woman" comment or Peter Bone getting his knickers in a twist over Tusk's "special place in hell" comment. In the case of the latter, at least Bercow had the good sense to mock Bone over his newly-acquired sensitive disposition.
 

Spaghetti

Member
Dec 2, 2017
2,740
Got a photo from a friend, No Deal propaganda ads are being put up in Birmingham city centre.

"No Deal is Ideal". Wonder which coked up advertising chimp thought that banger up?
 

Zafir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,038
It's Tory 101 - fake indignation by a bunch of nasty individuals who are usually the worst offenders of speaking ill of others. For other more recent examples of fake Tory indignation, see Corbyn's alleged "stupid woman" comment or Peter Bone getting his knickers in a twist over Tusk's "special place in hell" comment. In the case of the latter, at least Bercow had the good sense to mock Bone over his newly-acquired sensitive disposition.
Oh I know, I saw both of those too. It's just that I was surprised Bercow even told him to revoke it to be honest. As if it's really that bad.
 

Rosur

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,502
Okay, no deal it is, because the EU isn't going to give the U.K. an extension when there's no possibility they'll accept the backstop.

There is always a chance that we'll revoke Article 50 (and have no brexit) but wirth the Tory party issues I have a feeling No deal is more likely.
 

excowboy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
692
Her speech was entirely useless drivel. She actually said 'as expected the EU did not agree to further negotiations of the Withdrawal Agreement' i.e. 'I went to ask them for something I knew I couldn't have, and they said I couldn't have it'. But also, 'we're continuing negotiations' over something that she has just publicly stated she expects not to change.

All her answers were a flavour of 'if you want to avoid no deal, vote for my deal'. It should be crystal clear that the overriding motive is to shift any upcoming blame away from her and the party. Its pure self-preservation and its completely abhorrent.
 
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theaface

theaface

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,149
Oh I know, I saw both of those too. It's just that I was surprised Bercow even told him to revoke it to be honest. As if it's really that bad.

It's yet another archaic facet of our parliamentary procedure that you're not allowed to call someone a liar in the HoC, irrespective of how accurate the label is. I don't blame Bercow for doing his job today, but it's another stark reminder of how utterly broken our politics are.
 
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theaface

theaface

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,149
Ed Miliband, the former Labour leader, says May must say what she would do if faced with a choice between no deal and extending article 50.

May says Labour MPs should back her deal.

I honestly don't think I can follow much more of this, for the good of my blood pressure. She has no shame. None.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,086
It's yet another archaic facet of our parliamentary procedure that you're not allowed to call someone a liar in the HoC, irrespective of how accurate the label is. I don't blame Bercow for doing his job today, but it's another stark reminder of how utterly broken our politics are.

It's not anochristic, it's a pretty vital rule for debating full stop. Allowing people to call each other liars just means that's literally all anyone does in the chamber. They can do it everywhere else in the world - parliament is bad as it is without also allowing insults.
 

Celine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,030
After two years of negotiation and a deal agreeded by both UK prime minister and EU that won't pass the UK parliament due to how it is composed at what purpose would serve an extension of article 50?
 

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,694
After two years of negotiation and a deal agreeded by both UK prime minister and EU that won't pass the UK parliament due to how it is composed at what purpose would serve an extension of article 50?
As I've said before, some member states may need some extra time to cope with a Bad Brexit. It's such a complex subject that you could probably use another couple of years just for planning.

But at this point some folks may just go "aw, fuck it" and slam the door shut.
 

Deleted member 18502

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,562
May just says the same few things over and over: my deal is the only way to avoid crashing out of the EU, and progress is being made with the EU. She literally has nothing else to say.
 

Spaghetti

Member
Dec 2, 2017
2,740
The SNP's Steward McDonald said, in Dante's Divine Comedy, the eighth circle of hell was reserved for fraudsters. He suggests that that is where the leaders of the leave campaign will end up.
Tusk was onto something with that "special place in Hell" jibe.
 

Deleted member 862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,646
speaking of UKIP I only found out yesterday that Farage has a new party literally called The Brexit Party.

wonder where he got the money for that 🤔
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
speaking of UKIP I only found out yesterday that Farage has a new party literally called The Brexit Party.

wonder where he got the money for that 🤔

Yeah. Farage is probably desperate for Brexit to not happen so he can lead his hateful ignorant fools to vote him into an MEP job again like all those other useless sack of shits that got those MEP gigs and do sod all, probably with a nice EU pension to boot. Makes my blood boil.
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,874
Metro Detroit

pEOE65h.png
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,874
Metro Detroit
My money is on it working.
MP's will vote for anything but no deal Brexit when they are out of other options.

Conveniently taking Labour down the we did it together road of May's deal Brexit...
 

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,694
I think the ERG will split between the hardcore ideologues and those who are in strictly for political profit and see no good outcomes from No Deal. No idea which subgroup is larger.

What is the arithmetic required to make it pass?
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
I expect MPs to vote for May's deal in the end. It's inevitable compared to no deal. How she keeps kicking the can for 50 days will be something to behold and how business etc. react during that time. I suspect if things get really bad, she may feel confident in putting her deal up again sooner and MPs might vote for it or maybe they'll call her bluff leaving a few weeks to get us out of this shit show. Losing the vote twice and asking a third time without changes will look fucking stupid, not that the 2nd time won't either but surely that shows she has no leg to stand on. I still can't believe she is basically using ultimate fear to get her way.
 

kadotsu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,505
What were the economic projections on May's deal again? The last weeks of no deal coverage deleted those from my memory.
 

Zafir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,038
I've had little hope of anything besides May's deal happening for quite some time now. It's truly a sad time to behold.

Can't wait for more fun and games when they actually start having to negotiate all the trade deals and relationships.
 

danowat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,783
Parliament, and the country as a whole are completely neutered, there is nothing anyone can do to stop her kicking that can until the day.
 

Deleted member 34788

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 29, 2017
3,545
My money is on it working.
MP's will vote for anything but no deal Brexit when they are out of other options.

Conveniently taking Labour down the we did it together road of May's deal Brexit...


Yep, parliament fucked it up last month when MPs decided to fuck off the cross party agreement cooper laid out.

She'll get her deal passed in the end, everyone has missed the giant open goals her incompetence has laid out of them since 2016.

She'll fuck off the erg and dup to get the deal through, labour moderates will fold in the dozens to avoid a no deal. Then she'll piss off and let someone else deal with the Tory fallout.
 

plagiarize

It's not a loop. It's a spiral.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,544
Cape Cod, MA
Are Labour really going to force no deal to happen, when the withdrawal agreement still has huge amounts of room to maneuver towards a specific type of Brexit? It seems unlikely to me. I mean, no deal is still a very real possibility right now, but it's a lot harder to wash their hands of a no deal than the WA, I'd imagine. Voting for the WA you can argue you did it under duress with a gun held to your head. Voting against it when that means no deal... good look abdicating responsibility for that.

Parliament, and the country as a whole are completely neutered, there is nothing anyone can do to stop her kicking that can until the day.

Parliament have exposed themselves as powerless here and it still boggles my mind how that happened.
 

Spaghetti

Member
Dec 2, 2017
2,740
Cooper Amendment Part II: Amend Harder just announced.

Looks like more Tories are getting behind it this time, so might possibly have a chance?
 

avaya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,140
London
The Cooper amendment did not pass because the fucking Labour front bench and nearly 2 dozen Labour MPs either voted against or abstained. All the Tory rebels that needed to sign all ALL TURNED UP. The Tory's are lost, that is beyond doubt, but the group of rebels that needed to turn up to out vote the government didn't disappoint.

The fact that so many Labour MPs voted against or abstained including front benchers without a single one of them being sacked is appalling.

Labour's front bench are actively facilitating Brexit because 1. Corbyn is a conspiracy theorist and cretin (beyond doubt now) 2. They somehow think they can profit from the disaster that will result.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
I could see the Cooper bill passing for the simple reason, UK in no way is prepared for anything and they'll lean on that crutch to somehow get time to do something, anything. However it may just out the ultra Brexiters who want Brexit at any cost when they vote it down, Labour especially.
 

Spaghetti

Member
Dec 2, 2017
2,740
The Cooper amendment did not pass because the fucking Labour front bench and nearly 2 dozen Labour MPs either voted against or abstained. All the Tory rebels that needed to sign all ALL TURNED UP. The Tory's are lost, that is beyond doubt, but the group of rebels that needed to turn up to out vote the government didn't disappoint.

The fact that so many Labour MPs voted against or abstained including front benchers without a single one of them being sacked is appalling.

Labour's front bench are actively facilitating Brexit because 1. Corbyn is a conspiracy theorist and cretin (beyond doubt now) 2. They somehow think they can profit from the disaster that will result.
I think this discussion was played out when the Cooper Amendment came up the first time, but it's ignorant to pin the blame solely on Labour and the leadership as if somehow they'd be immune to the societal divisions of Brexit, when it's possibly the most fractious issue this country has ever seen and doesn't exist on traditional party lines.

When even the Liberal Democrats, who stand heavily on a pro-Europe platform and barely have enough MPs to enter double digits, have someone resigning the whip because his constituency voted Leave, do you really believe Labour would (or should) be able to put on a unified front to support what the right wing tabloids tried to portray as them killing Brexit? Do you also think they should willingly tender themselves to a spate of front bench resignations and sackings at the worst possible time?

Call it self interest of MPs and the party, or maybe even simply respecting the view of their constituents, but Labour aren't some magic cavalry who can ride in to save the day. I don't know why they're expected to be the party with zero conflicts of interest on Brexit when they hold seats in some of the strongest Leave voting areas of the country, it simply ignores reality.

Getting the Cooper amendment through is going to need more than an unrealistic vision of Labour having a totally rock solid position on Brexit, it's going to need the remaining Labour and Conservative MPs on the fence to get the fuck off it. The votes against will probably remain that way, and the abstentions could go in either direction, but as it gets down to the wire - things will change. Caroline Spelman throwing herself behind the resurrected Cooper amendment is just one example of things changing:

Caroline Spelman, the Conservative MP who tabled the non-binding amendment rejecting a no-deal Brexit that was passed by MPs two weeks ago, has said she will back the bill. She did not vote for the Cooper amendment two weeks ago and her endorsement is significant because it suggests Cooper's new amendment will get more Tory support than her previous one, which was backed by 17 Tories.

Don't bang on about the Tory rebels showing up when it's clear the mine of opinions sympathetic to the Cooper amendment has not been exhausted yet.

That Tory rebellion will happen any moment now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RaGLtJaZjs
We live in hope.

Terrible, depressing hope.
 

avaya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,140
London
Sorry but the Labour are treading a "fine line" spiel simply does not wash anymore. I already consider the Tory party to be vermin. That is default expectation. However the Tory rebels have turned up and were let down by the Labour front bench who are looking to push through disaster. This is not defensible and they can not be excused for this disgraceful behaviour.

It is irrefutable that Brexit is a hugely damaging exercise to every single Labour constituency in the country.
It is irrefutable that there is no part of the Labour manifesto (including the fantasy shit) that is prevented by being in the EU.
It is irrefutable that Brexit is a right wing project, a marginal victory on a fraudulent and utterly discredited referendum.
It is irrefutable that Corbyn Rasputin (Milne) and McCunty are are over riding the Labour party conference motion.
It is irrefutable that the Labour front bench tried to get conference to eliminate the prospect of Brexit/Ref being discussed, the GMB union was the driving force to override this despicable display.

Corybn is 1. A liar. 2. A charlatan. 3. A conspiracy theorist and 4. Will NEVER EVER be PM. He is beyond a disgrace.

Say what you want about Blair but domestically that government did more for poor and working people in this country than Corbyn and his band of cunts and cultists will achieve in 100 lifetimes. We will all have to pay for this bullshit.

This whole exercise has led me to never vote Labour ever again if they facilitate this racist, fraudulent, corrupt, disgrace. This country deserves fucking everything it gets. Suez II style humiliation approaches (quelle surprise the cunt who is Defence Sec spouting off delusional nonsense about global leadership).

I hope people have private health insurance and none of your friends and family die.

Fuck the Labour party.
 
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