BREXIT |OT| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,178
London
To be fair both Corbyn and May are both scraping the bottom of the barrel in votes. Neither are popular or are offering anything different from the opposition on Brexit. This new party will possibly just give us another decade of Tory rule just like it did with Thatcher and the SDP/Labour split following Michael Foots election loss.
As it stands I don't think it will have the same impact, none of these people are Roy Jenkins calibre.
 

ManixMiner

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
1,117
The Un-united Kingdom
^ lol perhaps you should have figured which direction you throwing that grenade before pulling the pin?

As it stands I don't think it will have the same impact, none of these people are Roy Jenkins calibre.
True none of them of any character, Chukka is just a red Tory and lets be honest it's way too late in the day for setting up a new party, should have just stuck it out with Labour.
 

Batatina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,408
Edinburgh, UK
I think Labour has really failed Brexit. I agree with their views on most other subjects, and I think the country would be better off with a Labour government, but that's inside the EU. Any party that wants to end freedom of movement is inherently pandering to xenophobia (as there's no benefit to losing the close relationship with the EU, and migration could be controlled with it still in place) and thus Labour has failed to be the inclusive and progressive party it wants to be portrayed as. For me that trumps all the other promises they may make, and I would not vote for them. I don't think these MP's are helping by leaving the party however, they were move helpful as influencers within the party to get the Brexit policy fixed.
 

plagiarize

Untethered once more
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
7,792
Cape Cod, MA
To be fair both Corbyn and May are both scraping the bottom of the barrel in votes. Neither are popular or are offering anything different from the opposition on Brexit. This new party will possibly just give us another decade of Tory rule just like it did with Thatcher and the SDP/Labour split following Michael Foots election loss.
I'm certainly not predicting specifically good outcomes when I say this, but there's no way the Tories go unpunished in the next ten years for the Brexit mess. This is just the start of a big shift to the political landscape in the UK I would wager. Where itll end up is anyone's guess but the Tories as we know them holding on to power as the UK suffers the ill effects of Brexit seems the easiest option to bet against.
 

null

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,459
I'm not sure they disproves what I said. Are you saying he was projected to lose and did, and that proves the public want him as leader?
Everyone lost if you want to play that game, that's a what a hung parliament is. It's why Brexit is stuck in the mud because there isn't enough voices in any one camp to answer a binary question.
 

plagiarize

Untethered once more
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
7,792
Cape Cod, MA
Everyone lost if you want to play that game, that's a what a hung parliament is. It's why Brexit is stuck in the mud because there isn't enough voices in any one camp to answer a binary question.
That and Britain is leaderless. Neither May nor Corbyn can get their party or people on board with their ideas. And those are ideas they designed to be popular. Imagine either of them trying to sell scrapping the whole thing.
 

Humidex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
898
Sky News reporting that Honda is preparing to shutter its Swindon plant with the loss of 3,500 jobs.

More workers thrown on the sacrificial pile for blue passports it seems...
 

danowat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,501
Sky News reporting that Honda is preparing to shutter its Swindon plant with the loss of 3,500 jobs.

More workers thrown on the sacrificial pile for blue passports it seems...
I'm sure it will be followed by a chorus of "It would have happened without Brexit / Project fear" from the right wing mentalists.
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,128
Welp they've done it. Will any of them have the spine to call a byelection though? It should be mandatory IMO
 

FliXFantatier

Master of the Reality Stone
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,577
Los Angeles
The Independent Group's values according to Gavin Shuker:
- Britain is a great country
- Government should keep people safe
- "Not every problem in the world is created by the West"
- Work with other countries to solve shared problems
- Good public services come from strong economy
- Government is custodian of money from the public
- "Believe in the innate creativity of individuals"
- Government should remove barriers
- Strong democratic institutions of press, police, etc
Shat the Fuck is that?
Not even a hint at Brexit being shit.


Last weeks remainiacs was quite sobering. There really is no Reversing course on Brexit.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,768
The Independent Group's values according to Gavin Shuker:
- Britain is a great country
- Government should keep people safe
- "Not every problem in the world is created by the West"
- Work with other countries to solve shared problems
- Good public services come from strong economy
- Government is custodian of money from the public
- "Believe in the innate creativity of individuals"
- Government should remove barriers
- Strong democratic institutions of press, police, etc
Yet you will have people cheering them regardless of the fact they are so far a private company, looking for outside investment, acting like a political party with no actual policies.

All while ignoring the main issue people are cheering them on for leaving Labour for.
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,128
Angela Smith talking about combating racism for black people or "people of a funny tinge". Yep. This new party is a hoot.

 

Lo-Volt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,465
New Yawk City!
So, it’s a group of people who were already unhappy in Labour for reasons well-publicized. Apparently no surprise defections from Team Red to shock observers, and no Conservatives willing to make the jump with them as yet. So now the story is about Labour and not a bigger story about a “new centrism”.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,689
is that 3500 jobs from Honda or including suppliers etc? Or could the number be much higher once that is factored in?

I suppose we need to see if they are planning to move production elsewhere in the EU - or its possible the EU/JPN FTA means they can ship from Japan economically enough to not need local production?


Doesn't matter anyway - those that voted leave will put their fingers in their ears because as we've learned, people don't like admitting they're wrong, they want an easy way to save face.
 

Corporal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
663
Well that new party gig is going about as well as everyone had predicted... (¬‿¬)


Slightly offtopic, but once the explosions stop around the beginning of April, what do you all think is better, pay the ~9 GBP per NHL prescription and month using cold hard cash (GBP may or may not be worthless), or rely on "it's not really money lol" prepaid certificates? Let's be honest: it's unknown if those are honoured in an emergency situation, and they can't be changed back to real money, but hey, a prescription flatrate in case of unforeseen events seems nice, especially if there's uncertainty about fees and service levels?
(A hundred quid for a year seems OK if you have a prescription anyway... )
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,307
It's their only factory in the EU, if they announce a new factory on the continent then I'd like to see Boris or Mogg explain that one away.
They won't, they'll produce in Japan. Honda doesn't sell that well in Europe. Brexit simply destroys any profitability the plant had in those circumstances.
 

Fiocca

Member
Feb 1, 2019
47
Yep, and i was one of those leave voters in Swindon. I'm trying my best to convince people that changing their mind is fine but people are just blinkered. People even today arguing the toss and now i'm being sent abuse on facebook for it.

The MP's still lying to us are to blame not the people at the time of voting but anyone still advocating for leave is now just deluded in my opinion. Will hurt this town pretty badly.
 
Oct 31, 2017
143
Yeah but but diesel engines and Japan FTA means this would happen anyway, something something, PrOjeCt fEaR!!
In the Japanese car industries case in the long term I expect all EU plants to close, as there's no incentive to manufacture locally now with the new FTA. To be honest I'm really suprised they signed up to it as its going to cost a lot of automotive industry jobs going forward, as it now makes no sense not to consolidate production in Japan. Why have lots of smaller plants producing models in Europe when you can have the efficiencies of scale by having the whole supply chain in one location?
 
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Fiocca

Member
Feb 1, 2019
47
In the Japanese car industries case in the long term I expect all EU plants to close, as there's no incentive to manufacture locally now with the new FTA. To be honest I'm really suprised they signed up to it as its going to cost a lot of automotive industry jobs going forward, as it now makes no sense not to consolidate production in Japan. Why have lots of smaller plants producing models in Europe when you can have the efficiencies of scale by having the whole supply chain in one location?
You may be right and that is logical but, i am pretty sure that brexit is the straw that broke the camels back. If this wasn't happening then i would guess the plant wouldn't have shut or wouldn't have shut until much later.

It's quite logical to think that if any company is looking to make changes then any UK based location is suddenly low hanging fruit due to brexit, especially if the UK isn't the largest market you sell to.
 

Murderopolis

Using an alt account to circumvent a ban
Banned
Jan 12, 2019
105
Yep, and i was one of those leave voters in Swindon. I'm trying my best to convince people that changing their mind is fine but people are just blinkered. People even today arguing the toss and now i'm being sent abuse on facebook for it.

The MP's still lying to us are to blame not the people at the time of voting but anyone still advocating for leave is now just deluded in my opinion. Will hurt this town pretty badly.
Of course people are blinkered. Thats kinda the problem with British culture. Its a culture of ignorance and extremes. Culture of extreme media partisanship.

UK is the only major country in the world where all three of the biggest read news sources are tabloids. The culture of Britain is to be ignorant and sensational. This is nothing new. Expecting anything else is setting yourself up for disappointment.
 

Kyougar

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,899
In the Japanese car industries case in the long term I expect all EU plants to close, as there's no incentive to manufacture locally now with the new FTA. To be honest I'm really suprised they signed up to it as its going to cost a lot of automotive industry jobs going forward, as it now makes no sense not to consolidate production in Japan. Why have lots of smaller plants producing models in Europe when you can have the efficiencies of scale by having the whole supply chain in one location?
Why produce in Japan with an aging populace and not enough young engineers?
they could produce cheaper in Poland and EXPORT to Japan.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,178
London
I can see the value in shipping cars that don't sell in huge amounts, but surely the cost of shipping the big sellers makes a local factory worthwhile.
 

Camoxide

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
298
UK
In the Japanese car industries case in the long term I expect all EU plants to close, as there's no incentive to manufacture locally now with the new FTA. To be honest I'm really suprised they signed up to it as its going to cost a lot of automotive industry jobs going forward, as it now makes no sense not to consolidate production in Japan. Why have lots of smaller plants producing models in Europe when you can have the efficiencies of scale by having the whole supply chain in one location?
You don't have to pay to ship the cars across the world if they've produced in the market you're selling to. If you're doing high volumes it doesn't make sense to stick that many cars on boats.

However, Honda doesn't sell well in Europe, with fairly small sales figures it's not too surprising they're closing the factory down.
 

Kaitos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,952
American here: can anyone explain to me the thought process behind The Independent Group? Reading their ideology, they don't seem that different than what I understand as the LibDems's ideology? Especially in regards to Brexit? I'm also a little confused at why you'd start another centrist party in a FPTP system?
 
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