BREXIT |OT| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Joni

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Oct 27, 2017
3,721
The Sinn Fein leader was doing the rounds of British media the other day, and even she sounds sensible compared to Corbyn and May. I suppose it's the benefit of not having to defend a bizarre position with all kinds of dodgy logic, but it still felt a bit weird.
They should take responsibility, they can drop the government by taking their position.
 

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,093
Joint statement on behalf of President Juncker and Prime Minister May

Brussels, 20 February 2019

President Juncker and Prime Minister May met today to take stock of their efforts to deliver the UK's orderly withdrawal from the EU, in line with the process launched by them on 7 February.

Their discussions covered:

  • which guarantees could be given with regard to the backstop that underlines once again its temporary nature and give the appropriate legal assurance to both sides. Both reconfirmed their commitment to avoiding a hard border on the island of Ireland and to respect the integrity of the EU's internal market and of the United Kingdom. The Prime Minister acknowledged the EU's position and notably the letter sent by President Tusk and President Juncker on 14 January. She welcomed the continued engagement of Task Force 50 with her team;
  • the role alternative arrangements could play in replacing the backstop in future, where they tasked the Commission's Chief Negotiator Michel Barnier and Secretary of State Stephen Barclay with considering the process the European Commission and the UK will follow; and
  • whether additions or changes to the Political Declaration can be made that are consistent with the EU and UK Government positions and increase confidence in the focus and ambition of both sides in delivering the future partnership envisaged as soon as possible. The Commission's Chief Negotiator and the Secretary of State will follow up.
The two leaders agreed that talks had been constructive, and they urged their respective teams to continue to explore the options in a positive spirit. They will review progress again in the coming days, seized of the tight timescale and the historic significance of setting the EU and the UK on a path to a deep and unique future partnership.

President Juncker and Prime Minister May agreed to talk again before the end of the month.
Same old, same old. They are basically struggling to tweak the political declaration, hoping it passes the UK's Parl.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
London
The hangover from all this is going to be a sight to behold, half the country wants the pain or doesn't believe it will come.

It's so obviously stupid to proceed but on we go.
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,574
Still baffles me more politicians just can't come out and say it like that guy. When it goes to shit what are you going to say to your constituents then, I knew it would bad and I'm suppose to do what's right for the country and the best interests of the people as I am more informed etc. but I didn't........because.......yeah exactly you fucking tools.
 

iapetus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,087
If you guarantee the temporary nature of the backstop then it isn't a fucking backstop you cretins.

<sigh>
 

plagiarize

Untethered
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,963
Cape Cod, MA
If you guarantee the temporary nature of the backstop then it isn't a fucking backstop you cretins.

<sigh>
I mean, it's temporary in that at some point it'll turn into something else. Short term, the backstop will take effect, because the UK don't even have any real suggestions of what else to do about the border. But, for example, if the tories regain a majority, you can imagine that they'd start doing border checks between NI and GB, because they wouldn't give a shit about what the DUP want and I can't imagine they'd remotely care what NI or Scotland wants without someone forcing their hand. Because, you know, history. And the referendum results.

But that's why it can't be unilaterally left by the UK, or have a time put on it.

The only assurances that you can realistically make are that it's not a desirable position for either group, and that both groups will continue to work together to replace it with something that works better for everyone. That's all they've been getting and that's all they'll get.

But like I said, there's no way it'll last forever. Political realities are going to change pretty quickly.
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,039
New remaniacs is out and going off the description my expectation that they'd fawn over the centrist party was well founded

EDIT: I've just checked their Twitter and noticed they've been fawning for days already, so not exactly a wild take haha

Might be the push over the edge to drop them out of the podcast rotation
 
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Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,839
Ugh, that would be pretty disappointing.

That said, they've been pretty desperate for anything resembling good news for some time now.

For me, this shit is just a sideshow. A complete irrelevance when you consider what's happing in just over a month's time.
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,039
Ugh, that would be pretty disappointing.

That said, they've been pretty desperate for anything resembling good news for some time now.

For me, this shit is just a sideshow. A complete irrelevance when you consider what's happing in just over a month's time.
Yeah, I mean check their Twitter for what I imagine is a preview.
 

FliXFantatier

Master of the Reality Stone
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,180
Los Angeles
New remaniacs is out and going off the description my expectation that they'd fawn over the centrist party was well founded

EDIT: I've just checked their Twitter and noticed they've been fawning for days already, so not exactly a wild take haha

Might be the push over the edge to drop them out of the podcast rotation
Honestly, looking purely through the prism of Brexit the new independent group cannot really be seen as a bad thing. Thusly I think it’s perfectly reasonable to view it as positively as possible. Add to that the fact that it is totally screwing with the big parties I think it’s fair game to cheer them on for now.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
London
Honestly, looking purely through the prism of Brexit the new independent group cannot really be seen as a bad thing. Thusly I think it’s perfectly reasonable to view it as positively as possible. Add to that the fact that it is totally screwing with the big parties I think it’s fair game to cheer them on for now.

Unless they add a lot of MPs quickly, emptying both major parties of a few pro Europeans is a bad thing in my eyes.
 

Juicy Bob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,691
I have to admit, I misread the part about how the 'EU's Task Force 50 had engaged with Theresa May' and got excited for a second.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,621
I mean, it's temporary in that at some point it'll turn into something else. Short term, the backstop will take effect, because the UK don't even have any real suggestions of what else to do about the border. But, for example, if the tories regain a majority, you can imagine that they'd start doing border checks between NI and GB, because they wouldn't give a shit about what the DUP want and I can't imagine they'd remotely care what NI or Scotland wants without someone forcing their hand. Because, you know, history. And the referendum results.

But that's why it can't be unilaterally left by the UK, or have a time put on it.

The only assurances that you can realistically make are that it's not a desirable position for either group, and that both groups will continue to work together to replace it with something that works better for everyone. That's all they've been getting and that's all they'll get.

But like I said, there's no way it'll last forever. Political realities are going to change pretty quickly.
I don't think the UK government would care - even with a majority. They haven't cared about immigration to put any kind of controls on it, yet use it as part of the leave campaign and stoking up racists. They won't do anything about immigration after leaving either.

They probably want the backstop because it lets them just get on with stuff and not have to worry about finding a solution to anything. They just need pesky parliament to agree to it. And there is no way to guarantee it is temporary because the entire point is you can't guarantee yet what you're replacing it with. So no time limit is possible either. Maybe some 'best endeavours' language, or bollocks about 'when the UK and Irish governments have a workable plan in place, the backstop will be removed' so putting the onus on us (which we'll never deliver)


All this effort for such a fuck up is almost impressive in its idiocy. But we all know that.
 

danowat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,011
36 days to go, things are still looking pretty good?

Remember the days when Boris said we could have our cake and eat it?, the days when we were told the EU would come to us cap in hand wanting a deal because we are so big and powerful?, the days when we were told we'd be signing trade deals with countries the next morning after the referendum?

Great times.
 

Dougald

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,474
36 days to go, things are still looking pretty good?

Remember the days when Boris said we could have our cake and eat it?, the days when we were told the EU would come to us cap in hand wanting a deal because we are so big and powerful?, the days when we were told we'd be signing trade deals with countries the next morning after the referendum?

Great times.
Easiest Trade Deal in History, not a single job lost!
Small economic price to pay for long term payoff
We'll be better off in 50 years

There will be adequate food
 

iapetus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,087
Unless they add a lot of MPs quickly, emptying both major parties of a few pro Europeans is a bad thing in my eyes.
The Labour party, sure. Emptying the Conservative party of a few might actually be a good thing, though, because it frees those MPs up from the whole party-over-country thing (or at least changes them over to a slightly more sane party), allowing them to vote against their former party more easily - and if it comes to it, that includes a vote of no confidence.
 
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*Splinter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,508
The Labour party, sure. Emptying the Conservative party of a few might actually be a good thing, though, because it frees those MPs up from the whole party-over-country thing (or at least changes them over to a slightly more sane party), allowing them to vote against their former party more easily - and if it comes to it, that includes a vote of no confidence.
This has done the opposite though, where even the former Labour MPs won't vote no confidence
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
London
The Labour party, sure. Emptying the Conservative party of a few might actually be a good thing, though, because it frees those MPs up from the whole party-over-country thing (or at least changes them over to a slightly more sane party), allowing them to vote against their former party more easily - and if it comes to it, that includes a vote of no confidence.
Agreed, but I was also thinking of the party left behind, less of a support group for remaining people worried about no deal, and Soubry etc are no longer rebels but independent MPs she doesn't have to manage.
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,039
New remaniacs is out and going off the description my expectation that they'd fawn over the centrist party was well founded

EDIT: I've just checked their Twitter and noticed they've been fawning for days already, so not exactly a wild take haha

Might be the push over the edge to drop them out of the podcast rotation
just started listening to this and the phrase "some of our favourite Tories" should be in no-one's vocabulary if you even aspire to progressive values
Honestly, looking purely through the prism of Brexit the new independent group cannot really be seen as a bad thing. Thusly I think it’s perfectly reasonable to view it as positively as possible. Add to that the fact that it is totally screwing with the big parties I think it’s fair game to cheer them on for now.
I've yet to see any positive positions from them, the only notable positions they've set out are

- the class system is good actually
- austerity was good actually

so forgive me for not wanting to cheer that on. And that's even ignoring the party using anti semetism as a weapon to wield being racist on television within 2 hours of their announcement. And us having no idea where their funding is coming from. That a party this flimsy, with the days they've had already, is getting uncritically fawned over has me really down, to be blunt.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,558
London
Meanwhile the manufacturing sector in Germany contracted and inflation in the Eurozone is back to almost nothing so there’s no way in hell we don’t all enter a recession in March - right when I leave my job.

Yay.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,839
Excuse my American ignorance, but the fear of violence isn't from an imaginary EU army, but from NI militants, right?
Sure, but somewhat missing the point... who the fuck would deal with us on the world stage if we're not willing to stand by our commitments?

I swear these fucks still think its the 1700s and we're some sort of world power to be feared.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,449
Sure, but somewhat missing the point... who the fuck would deal with us on the world stage if we're not willing to stand by our commitments?

I swear these fucks still think its the 1700s and we're some sort of world power to be feared.
Oh, there will always be people willing to deal with us. They'll just demand increasingly lopsided deals as we make ourselves less palatable as a partner.

Thanks, now I understand the context here.
 

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,093
Excuse my American ignorance, but the fear of violence isn't from an imaginary EU army, but from NI militants, right?
It's important to understand that Conservative leaders and milieus are infinitely more concerned about imaginary EU armies than a return to the troubles.

They never really cared about Northern Ireland. The region being deep in shit again would be a return to the natural state of things.
 

FliXFantatier

Master of the Reality Stone
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,180
Los Angeles
just started listening to this and the phrase "some of our favourite Tories" should be in no-one's vocabulary if you even aspire to progressive values

I've yet to see any positive positions from them, the only notable positions they've set out are

- the class system is good actually
- austerity was good actually

so forgive me for not wanting to cheer that on. And that's even ignoring the party using anti semetism as a weapon to wield being racist on television within 2 hours of their announcement. And us having no idea where their funding is coming from. That a party this flimsy, with the days they've had already, is getting uncritically fawned over has me really down, to be blunt.
I'm not disagreeing with any of that, they are all to varying degrees terrible.
But not first and foremost brexit related.
Having a new group of MPs that can (and hopefully) will be even more vocally anti brexit and more importantly draw some media attention is a good thing.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
London
The prominent Greek MEP, Stelios Koulouglou, told the Guardian:

Everyone in the [EU] negotiating team is completely fed up with May. They feel she doesn’t have a clear plan, she changes constantly and instead of being serious, is playing cheap political games.

I didn't realise it was going so well.
I might have to order one of those Brexit freezers that are all the rage these days.
 
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