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BREXIT |OT| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Deleted member 31104

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null said:
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Labour are going to get so much shit for this.
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It's exactly the same logic as the Tory remainers were using during the votes last year. Unless you can win it why break your party? PV only has a shot as the very very last option, everything else has to fail first.

First rule of politics be able to count.
 

Ravensmash

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Oct 25, 2017
8,797
Blue Lou said:
Probably because it's going to lose and the timing isn't right. It's too far away from the deadline.
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And probably because they feel like the focus today should be on ensuring an extension
Zafir said:
Yeah it's frustrating that they've kind of undermined it a bit with their decision. Especially since it's not even just Labour, the peoples vote campaign in general doesn't really think it's the best time.

They'd be better off not pushing for the amendment today tbh, but I dunno, I feel like they're still gunna go through with it anyway, even though it's pretty clear it'll lose.
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Came here to post this, but yep.

Get a clear majority for the extension, and then table it at the next opportunity.
 
Uzzy

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
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Oct 25, 2017
27,078
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If the Benn amendment passes the Government will whip against the motion. Which is effectively whipping in favour of crashing out without a deal on the 29th.

Also, the PV is gonna get crushed tonight. Good job those who moved it, really great move.

 
ManixMiner

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Dec 17, 2017
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Goodlifr said:
Unless the DUP/ERG cave on MV3, I still recon this is going to end with May's vote passing on the condition it goes to the people for ratification.
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Edit: I am really torn it but read below.

Original post:

Whilst I use to believe this and I thought it was the best route and hopefully ending up remaining I think a referendum on May's deal is a horrible idea.

May's deal is only a Withdrawal Agreement, it sets the length and terms of our departure and transition period, the Irish backstop and moneys agreed between the EU and UK. There is nothing in there about our future trading relationship or if any powers are going to be left in Brussels after the transitional period. May's withdrawal agreement is only for 4 years, 5 at most so what happens after that? It took them 3 years just to get the txt of the WA together so I don't expect them to complete trade talks within 4 years and have the Irish boarder problem solved.

My biggest worry is that people would vote for it just to see Brexit it through, whilst May's deal sits in Parliament it has very little chance of passing, but in the hands of the people it might just do that and we end up with May's vassal state deal in a never ending transition.
 
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Psychotext

Psychotext

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Oct 30, 2017
16,678
Won't be s popular opinion, but I agree this wasn't the time for the second ref amendment. Losing today will set the movement back hugely.

Much better to have done it after the extension vote, ot try to get the EU to support it in allowing for extention
 
Funky Papa

Funky Papa

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Oct 28, 2017
4,694
It's kind of amazing that, even in defeat, ineptitude may inflict more damage than malice once everything is said and done.

Extraordinary, really.
 

Deleted member 862

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Oct 25, 2017
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So as best as I understand it there's 4 votes today

(H) - Sarah Wollaston, People's Vote
(I)- Hilary Benn, backbench control
(E) - Corbyn, A50 extension & consensus
(J) - Chris Bryant, block May holding meaningful vote 3

If (H) is passed (on extending talks to hold another ref) then (I) and (E) fall and they vote on (J)

if (I) is passed then (E) falls meaning parliament has control on what to do next.

So the reason you don't want a second vote (H) today is because it closes off all other options

The government are whipping against all of them

as far as I can tell you want (I) to pass tonight and if it doesn't then everyone would move on to back the Kyle/Wilson amendment which would mean a second ref on May's deal.

I think that's right anyway. It's pretty confusing.
 
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MrKlaw

MrKlaw

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Oct 25, 2017
33,038
ShironRedshift said:
Can't have no deal, can't have May's deal, can't get rid of May or have new elections, can't have a second referendum, can't have this, can't have that. Schrodinger's Brexit continues, I see. Nobody wants to own the ticking time bomb that is Brexit and actually say definitively what it is or isn't, so around and around we go.

All anyone seems to want right now is I guess an extension maybe, but with that the clock's just reset and everyone, no longer feeling the pressure of the clock, will just return to their original positions again is if nothing ever happened. The definition of a mess.
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Zafir

Zafir

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Oct 25, 2017
7,004
theaface said:
Our 'Remain' PM, ladies and gents. The same one who 3-line whipped for a no deal Brexit only yesterday and has placated the loony fringe Brexiteers in her party for over 2 years, despite how much they defy and brief against her.
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And the same one who is doing a "heavy" three-line whip today against every motion (unless the government motion goes through un-amended).
 
Faddy

Faddy

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Oct 25, 2017
9,132
This is the Galaxy Brain Parliament.

Everyone is voting against the outcomes they want yet expecting their solution to win the day.

Fucking madness.
 
FliX

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,863
Metro Detroit
null said:
Statement



Labour are going to get so much shit for this.
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W2DqgLb.gif
 
FliX

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
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Oct 25, 2017
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kmag said:
It's exactly the same logic as the Tory remainers were using during the votes last year. Unless you can win it why break your party? PV only has a shot as the very very last option, everything else has to fail first.

First rule of politics be able to count.
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That doesn't change public perception though.
 
Zafir

Zafir

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Oct 25, 2017
7,004
Jay Mcsaros said:
What's a 3-line whip? I get the general idea of a whip. Are there 1 or 2-line whips?
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I think the name comes from it being underlined three times to show importance... It generally means that there will be harsher punishments for going against it as far as I'm aware.

That said we're in a unique situation where May is struggling for support so it loses a bit of meaning lol.
 
Crispy75

Crispy75

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Oct 25, 2017
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Jay Mcsaros said:
What's a 3-line whip? I get the general idea of a whip. Are there 1 or 2-line whips?
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1 line = we'd like you to vote this way, if you're in the House
2 lines = we'd like you to vote this way, and you should attend the vote
3 lines = if you don't vote this way there will be trouble. expect to be shunned from promotion, influential committees etc.
 
31GhostsIV

31GhostsIV

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Oct 26, 2017
2,299
Time for Labour to abstain on the amendment like the spineless cowards they are.

Yep, all sat on their benches. Pathetic.
 

Deleted member 7462

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Oct 25, 2017
6,877
It seems like every time something happens to seemingly split the Tory party or its voters, Labour then does something almost immediately to do the same to their voters.

I plan to do some reading up on the history of party re-alignments in the UK because it's pretty clear that there needs to be one along, roughly, pro-European and pro-isolationist lines here.
 
Batatina

Batatina

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Oct 25, 2017
5,263
Edinburgh, UK
Why would people that support a referendum not vote on it now? They could still do another vote if that is their plan. I don't get all this game playing, just have principles and follow them...
Seeing this kind of sends a message that no one wants it which is definitely not true:

Edit: I read their explanation and I still feel like it's too much game playing. But hopefully they know better than I.
 
Stuart444

Stuart444

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Oct 25, 2017
9,068
The only ones who are allowed to do a second vote on anything is the Tories and May.

And a third vote

and a fourth

probably a fifth
 
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