When you consider that ~60 Tory MPs recently voted against the government to make a point this probably isn't what they hoped for.
May will not budge off her deal for anyone. We are rapidly approaching decision time because there's nothing else.
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BREXIT |OT| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Thread starter theaface
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When you consider that ~60 Tory MPs recently voted against the government to make a point this probably isn't what they hoped for.
May will not budge off her deal for anyone. We are rapidly approaching decision time because there's nothing else.
I would buy the argument for "the poor Leave voters who got deceived" if the majority of them were still not insisting on their original vote, many of them clamouring for No Deal even. These are all adults and at some point individual responsibility kicks in. The truth of the matter is that they haven't changed their mind because no rational argument will cure their xenophobia and superiority complex over the rest of Europe.
And this i entirely agree with. People that after all this time still advocate leaving, especially with no deal are idiotic and completely brainwashed. But i would hope people could see the distinction between myself who saw the light ages ago and someone spouting "letsgoWTO!!" like an indoctrinated ISIS convert.
I think it's admirable that you have realized that the Leave vote was wrong, but I just have a small issue with the bolded because I see it back in the US as well, with people claiming that racism/xenophobia was fed to them at home and that media is at fault. Anti-EU sentiments being the result of media and politicians I can totally understand, but racism and xenophobia isn't learned through the media or politicians. That's simply a morality issue. People don't watch conservative media and "learn" to hate minorities, they hate minorities and then watch conservative media that supports, inflames, and justifies that hatred.
People need to accept if their family or even themselves have racist and xenophobic beliefs and confront them, instead of blaming them on the amorphous media and politicians as a way to skirt blame and responsibility. Without that there's not really going to be change regarding these kinds of beliefs.
I grew up with grandparents who were racist and multiple uncles who were racist, who had no compunction to make racist statements right in front of me. I didn't just adopt those beliefs. I knew exactly when statements being made were racist and pointed them out as that. Plenty of people do this. Plenty of people know better.
Again, people need to stop rejecting responsibility. If someone tells you a certain type of people is always this way or just straight out bad in some way, and you just fall into line with that, that's on you as much as it is the person saying it.
I admit I had xenophobic tendencies which has been learned from the environment I grew up in. It was normal. But I must say, it's like I've had an epiphany and can see how stupid being irrationally scared of the other is. It's like a built in fear or excuse you fall back on just to deflect blame or to make yourself feel superior and when you realise you are afflicted with it it's quite eye opening. In fact it's damn pathetic.
Leave was a racist bigoted campaign lead by racist bigots. That is a fact. Everyone, absolutely fucking everyone in this country knew this. Everyone knows what Nigel and Boris are about, its not a secret. Those two haven't shut up for 1 minute of their life.
I don't buy they were mislead. I mean, obviously on many things they were. But the core of what leave was about, was not a secret. The media is openly racist, bigoted, and sensational. No one forces you to read the Daily Mail or the Sun. You don't get to bury your head in hate papers than blame them when you lose your jobs.
If you voted leave, this is on you. You sided with an openly ugly campaign of hatred and racism. Not saying this to anyone in this thread. Britain is a conservative, deprived, working class nation. And we are also a bigoted racist nation, that is proudly ignorant. Brexit is 100% a by product of the backwards culture of the country.
I don't buy they were mislead. I mean, obviously on many things they were. But the core of what leave was about, was not a secret. The media is openly racist, bigoted, and sensational. No one forces you to read the Daily Mail or the Sun. You don't get to bury your head in hate papers than blame them when you lose your jobs.
If you voted leave, this is on you. You sided with an openly ugly campaign of hatred and racism. Not saying this to anyone in this thread. Britain is a conservative, deprived, working class nation. And we are also a bigoted racist nation, that is proudly ignorant. Brexit is 100% a by product of the backwards culture of the country.
As someone who actually campaigned in the referendum, I can attest to leave voters being by and large one or a mix of: thick, racist, uneducated, pig headed, willfully ignorant and in a tiny sliver of cases hopelessly naive.
However I do not want anyone to suffer brexit. Even in its most timid form it is going to be the ruin of many a livelihood, and it will affect the children and grandchildren of voters more than those who cast the vote.
The ones who really deserve to suffer are those who went from remain to brexit because it became politically convenient to do so.
However I do not want anyone to suffer brexit. Even in its most timid form it is going to be the ruin of many a livelihood, and it will affect the children and grandchildren of voters more than those who cast the vote.
The ones who really deserve to suffer are those who went from remain to brexit because it became politically convenient to do so.
It needs Mogg replying that she should sign up for xbox live and Sony will cave in to her demands.
Thinking about how much blame should be assigned to voters for a decision like Brexit has me quickly devolving into thought spirals about the nature of free will. However, from a pragmatic perspective, the environments within which we exist massively affect the kind of persons we are. It's why the welfare state exists.
A majority people voted leave at the previous referendum, but blaming voters isn't going to change that or make it any easier to stop the catastrophe that is Brexit. The truth is, sources of information that they trusted did lie to them on an unbelievable level. I also think David Cameron is massively to blame, because it meant that when people did start saying how bad Brexit would be, a natural response would be surely if it's that bad, it wouldn't have been put up to a vote. I voted remain, but I have very limited knowledge about the complex interactions and inter-dependencies of EU member states, at the time even less so. I thought that Brexit was overall worse than Remain, but never conceived it could possibly be this bad because I never would have imagined that such a thing would have been put to a referendum if that was the case. Furthermore, 'Project Fear' at the time was just 'Project Understatement', because even Remainers massively underestimated how important the UKs relationship to the EU was.
The one place where 'blame' is useful is when it comes to identifying what got us into this mess, reflecting on that, and then digging ourselves out of it. MPs who actively lied need to be held accountable for a start.
A majority people voted leave at the previous referendum, but blaming voters isn't going to change that or make it any easier to stop the catastrophe that is Brexit. The truth is, sources of information that they trusted did lie to them on an unbelievable level. I also think David Cameron is massively to blame, because it meant that when people did start saying how bad Brexit would be, a natural response would be surely if it's that bad, it wouldn't have been put up to a vote. I voted remain, but I have very limited knowledge about the complex interactions and inter-dependencies of EU member states, at the time even less so. I thought that Brexit was overall worse than Remain, but never conceived it could possibly be this bad because I never would have imagined that such a thing would have been put to a referendum if that was the case. Furthermore, 'Project Fear' at the time was just 'Project Understatement', because even Remainers massively underestimated how important the UKs relationship to the EU was.
The one place where 'blame' is useful is when it comes to identifying what got us into this mess, reflecting on that, and then digging ourselves out of it. MPs who actively lied need to be held accountable for a start.
If I'm honest, the reason I voted remain was because when I weighed up the two options I felt like me and my family would be better off in the EU. It was a very selfish vote on my part, and I had very little reason to consider the wider consequences of there being a vote in the first place.
It takes 6 months or something to pass EU inspection, so yeah not good.
Also I find it funny to see him reading out a list of terror, he should have listened to the experts.
Meanwhile, Euronews commissioned Populus to do an EU wide poll on Brexit, and as per Independent:
What's the name of that yellow duck pokemon again. The one that constantly has a headache. I think I'm gonna make it my spirit animal.
I... I just... hrm...
What's the name of that yellow duck pokemon again. The one that constantly has a headache. I think I'm gonna make it my spirit animal.
We kind of have in a way, we only turn up to meetings to be humiliated, we don't go to the proper ones with the adults anymore.
Looks like we have a new word... Brexodus!
THINGS.ARE.LOOKING.PRETTY.GOOD
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-idUKKCN1Q81YW
THINGS.ARE.LOOKING.PRETTY.GOOD
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-idUKKCN1Q81YW
Yep. Lying bastards. Said it would be easy, would improve things yet here we are now being told we could be paying loads extra for things by the same people. We really are in what feels like a banana republic. It's telling this isn't being called out on the mainstream channels except 4...
So, some Brexit/travel advice. I'm flying with my family to Hong Kong (my partner and I used to live there) on the 1st April. I've obviously got insurance with quite a hefty amount that I can claim through cancellation. I don't think it will be affected by Brexit but you never know, I've got a friend to watch my house in case looting kicks off big style (I'm joking, we watch each others' houses every time we go away).
Is there anything else I should/could do? We're only going for 10 days.
Is there anything else I should/could do? We're only going for 10 days.
As you are travelling outside of the EU, you don't need to do anything 'special'
Is this from before the referendum and a pro remain speech /s
O_o
I suspect this is what they want, leading to asset stripping because companies, smaller land owners are screwed and the richest, biggest opportunists feed on them. It's basically a sell off for people that can afford it and losing more control, these politicians are complicit for crumbs or just idiots.
What is the latest status with regards to flights anyway? Last I saw we'd worked out EU travel in the event of a no deal, but I don't know about the rest of the world (apparently most of the issues are to do with insurances / safety certification).
Huh. So it might actually be more than just a Labour splinter after all
At the very least, it also means this 'Independent' party has already got about as many MPs as the Lib Dems do.
If I were ex-Labour and wanted to build a reputation, I'd run in the opposite direction of Soubry.
I believe there is an agreement in place for flights, driving is a different matter though.
In the event of a no deal you'll need an insurance green card, which could be problematic if you're already out there,.
Well unless mad max brexit happens and UK drops out of all the flight agreements, in which case who knows what happens.
Personally, I'd try and avoid being out of the country on the 29th, we're coming back from NL early, just to avoid an issues.
Some of the Tory rebels actually went through with it? Shocking. I wonder if this movement will gain any momentum? If anything, a pipe dream would be the destruction of party politics, with a focus on candidates over party... Alternatively, a push for proportional representation over this broken two party FPTP bollocks.
Brexit is doing a number on both parties for sure.
Brexit is doing a number on both parties for sure.
McLaren, clearly!
She'd be well advised to keep her mouth shut I'd think.
Didn't they all just vote against a parliamentary motion of no confidence in their own government though?
They're trying the Brexit strategy. Why set up an actual party with "policies" if you can just vaguely rail against the status quo, then make up what the will of the people was after you win
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