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danowat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,783
They're trying the Brexit strategy. Why set up an actual party with "policies" if you can just vaguely rail against the status quo, then make up what the will of the people was after you win
Rail against it to what end?, what do they actually think they can do? what can they actually do?, seems a bit of a waste of time to me.

edit : ah, ok, they are planning on becoming a party, not really sure what they think they can do to restore some / any faith in the political system in this country though after all this recent mess.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,661
I've got one of those stupidly expensive "premier" insurance products. Covers basically everything you could think of. :)
 

Batatina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,262
Edinburgh, UK
I'm not sensing any momentum toward this independent group, but I live in Scotland where we already have the SNP to fill that gap. Wonder if this will take off in England.
 

CampFreddie

A King's Landing
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,950
Are any of these new independents even going to be re-elected without their red/blue rosettes?
I don't see the sort of grassroots support for these MPs that would allow them to beat a new Labour/Tory MP.

I mean, what is this group even for? Are they just trying to replace the DUP as a 'kingmaker' bloc?
Because people love the DUP and propping up a Tory government worked so well for the LibDems...
 

kadotsu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,504
I'm not sensing any momentum toward this independent group, but I live in Scotland where we already have the SNP to fill that gap. Wonder if this will take off in England.
I feel like the independent group is just a way for unpopular MPs to get out early. I bet that in a few months it will turn into a taxpayers alliance like think tank with the message of more privatisation and austerity.
 

Burai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,079
Are any of these new independents even going to be re-elected without their red/blue rosettes?
I don't see the sort of grassroots support for these MPs that would allow them to beat a new Labour/Tory MP.

I mean, what is this group even for? Are they just trying to replace the DUP as a 'kingmaker' bloc?
Because people love the DUP and propping up a Tory government worked so well for the LibDems...

UKIP are effectively running the country without a single sitting MP. It's all about momentum. If this group can start to pick up a decent share of the vote, you can bet the Tories and Labour will start to pivot back to the centre again.
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
15,205
I mean, what is this group even for? Are they just trying to replace the DUP as a 'kingmaker' bloc?
Because people love the DUP and propping up a Tory government worked so well for the LibDems...
Cross posted from the politics thread, but they're shy Tories. Also yes, absolutely no grassroots support. And no declaration of their backing 🤔🤔🤔

Nice of the centrist brain party to set out their Austerity was good actually stall early just so we know





EDIT: oh, and the sexual abusers welcome stall! But oh, best female MP ratio in history, yessss queen


 

Deleted member 18857

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,083
I mean, what is this group even for? Are they just trying to replace the DUP as a 'kingmaker' bloc?
Because people love the DUP and propping up a Tory government worked so well for the LibDems...
They stand for their own career. They know they won't be reelected soon, but in 10 years, they will be able to use the "we were in the anti Brexit party, we tried to stop it" card and aim for the top. That's why their plan involves propping the Tories in the short term.
Career over country.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,798
In his letter he does mention the impact on the "British and European defence industry". Not sure why he's so concered about the former, after next month and a likely no deal scenario, the British defense industry will be free to sell to all the dictators in the world, free of pesky European oversight.
 

Rassilon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,581
UK
With the Independent Group... What I'm curious about, and sorry if it has been been answered;

Are they running the group in total isolation? I wonder if they have an admin, social media person, PR etc.

I find the image of the MPs trying to share the duties that were once sorted out by their staff rather amusing.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
She's 100% right.
Feel abit jealous of Scotland for having a competent leader.

The Sinn Fein leader was doing the rounds of British media the other day, and even she sounds sensible compared to Corbyn and May. I suppose it's the benefit of not having to defend a bizarre position with all kinds of dodgy logic, but it still felt a bit weird.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
The Sinn Fein leader was doing the rounds of British media the other day, and even she sounds sensible compared to Corbyn and May. I suppose it's the benefit of not having to defend a bizarre position with all kinds of dodgy logic, but it still felt a bit weird.
They should take responsibility, they can drop the government by taking their position.
 

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,694
Joint statement on behalf of President Juncker and Prime Minister May

Brussels, 20 February 2019

President Juncker and Prime Minister May met today to take stock of their efforts to deliver the UK's orderly withdrawal from the EU, in line with the process launched by them on 7 February.

Their discussions covered:

  • which guarantees could be given with regard to the backstop that underlines once again its temporary nature and give the appropriate legal assurance to both sides. Both reconfirmed their commitment to avoiding a hard border on the island of Ireland and to respect the integrity of the EU's internal market and of the United Kingdom. The Prime Minister acknowledged the EU's position and notably the letter sent by President Tusk and President Juncker on 14 January. She welcomed the continued engagement of Task Force 50 with her team;
  • the role alternative arrangements could play in replacing the backstop in future, where they tasked the Commission's Chief Negotiator Michel Barnier and Secretary of State Stephen Barclay with considering the process the European Commission and the UK will follow; and
  • whether additions or changes to the Political Declaration can be made that are consistent with the EU and UK Government positions and increase confidence in the focus and ambition of both sides in delivering the future partnership envisaged as soon as possible. The Commission's Chief Negotiator and the Secretary of State will follow up.
The two leaders agreed that talks had been constructive, and they urged their respective teams to continue to explore the options in a positive spirit. They will review progress again in the coming days, seized of the tight timescale and the historic significance of setting the EU and the UK on a path to a deep and unique future partnership.

President Juncker and Prime Minister May agreed to talk again before the end of the month.
Same old, same old. They are basically struggling to tweak the political declaration, hoping it passes the UK's Parl.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
The hangover from all this is going to be a sight to behold, half the country wants the pain or doesn't believe it will come.

It's so obviously stupid to proceed but on we go.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
Still baffles me more politicians just can't come out and say it like that guy. When it goes to shit what are you going to say to your constituents then, I knew it would bad and I'm suppose to do what's right for the country and the best interests of the people as I am more informed etc. but I didn't........because.......yeah exactly you fucking tools.
 

iapetus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,078
If you guarantee the temporary nature of the backstop then it isn't a fucking backstop you cretins.

<sigh>
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,490
Cape Cod, MA
If you guarantee the temporary nature of the backstop then it isn't a fucking backstop you cretins.

<sigh>
I mean, it's temporary in that at some point it'll turn into something else. Short term, the backstop will take effect, because the UK don't even have any real suggestions of what else to do about the border. But, for example, if the tories regain a majority, you can imagine that they'd start doing border checks between NI and GB, because they wouldn't give a shit about what the DUP want and I can't imagine they'd remotely care what NI or Scotland wants without someone forcing their hand. Because, you know, history. And the referendum results.

But that's why it can't be unilaterally left by the UK, or have a time put on it.

The only assurances that you can realistically make are that it's not a desirable position for either group, and that both groups will continue to work together to replace it with something that works better for everyone. That's all they've been getting and that's all they'll get.

But like I said, there's no way it'll last forever. Political realities are going to change pretty quickly.
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
15,205
New remaniacs is out and going off the description my expectation that they'd fawn over the centrist party was well founded

EDIT: I've just checked their Twitter and noticed they've been fawning for days already, so not exactly a wild take haha

Might be the push over the edge to drop them out of the podcast rotation
 
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Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,661
Ugh, that would be pretty disappointing.

That said, they've been pretty desperate for anything resembling good news for some time now.

For me, this shit is just a sideshow. A complete irrelevance when you consider what's happing in just over a month's time.
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
15,205
Ugh, that would be pretty disappointing.

That said, they've been pretty desperate for anything resembling good news for some time now.

For me, this shit is just a sideshow. A complete irrelevance when you consider what's happing in just over a month's time.
Yeah, I mean check their Twitter for what I imagine is a preview.
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,856
Metro Detroit
New remaniacs is out and going off the description my expectation that they'd fawn over the centrist party was well founded

EDIT: I've just checked their Twitter and noticed they've been fawning for days already, so not exactly a wild take haha

Might be the push over the edge to drop them out of the podcast rotation
Honestly, looking purely through the prism of Brexit the new independent group cannot really be seen as a bad thing. Thusly I think it's perfectly reasonable to view it as positively as possible. Add to that the fact that it is totally screwing with the big parties I think it's fair game to cheer them on for now.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
Honestly, looking purely through the prism of Brexit the new independent group cannot really be seen as a bad thing. Thusly I think it's perfectly reasonable to view it as positively as possible. Add to that the fact that it is totally screwing with the big parties I think it's fair game to cheer them on for now.


Unless they add a lot of MPs quickly, emptying both major parties of a few pro Europeans is a bad thing in my eyes.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,027
I mean, it's temporary in that at some point it'll turn into something else. Short term, the backstop will take effect, because the UK don't even have any real suggestions of what else to do about the border. But, for example, if the tories regain a majority, you can imagine that they'd start doing border checks between NI and GB, because they wouldn't give a shit about what the DUP want and I can't imagine they'd remotely care what NI or Scotland wants without someone forcing their hand. Because, you know, history. And the referendum results.

But that's why it can't be unilaterally left by the UK, or have a time put on it.

The only assurances that you can realistically make are that it's not a desirable position for either group, and that both groups will continue to work together to replace it with something that works better for everyone. That's all they've been getting and that's all they'll get.

But like I said, there's no way it'll last forever. Political realities are going to change pretty quickly.

I don't think the UK government would care - even with a majority. They haven't cared about immigration to put any kind of controls on it, yet use it as part of the leave campaign and stoking up racists. They won't do anything about immigration after leaving either.

They probably want the backstop because it lets them just get on with stuff and not have to worry about finding a solution to anything. They just need pesky parliament to agree to it. And there is no way to guarantee it is temporary because the entire point is you can't guarantee yet what you're replacing it with. So no time limit is possible either. Maybe some 'best endeavours' language, or bollocks about 'when the UK and Irish governments have a workable plan in place, the backstop will be removed' so putting the onus on us (which we'll never deliver)


All this effort for such a fuck up is almost impressive in its idiocy. But we all know that.
 

danowat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,783
36 days to go, things are still looking pretty good?

Remember the days when Boris said we could have our cake and eat it?, the days when we were told the EU would come to us cap in hand wanting a deal because we are so big and powerful?, the days when we were told we'd be signing trade deals with countries the next morning after the referendum?

Great times.
 

Dougald

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,937
36 days to go, things are still looking pretty good?

Remember the days when Boris said we could have our cake and eat it?, the days when we were told the EU would come to us cap in hand wanting a deal because we are so big and powerful?, the days when we were told we'd be signing trade deals with countries the next morning after the referendum?

Great times.

Easiest Trade Deal in History, not a single job lost!
Small economic price to pay for long term payoff
We'll be better off in 50 years

There will be adequate food
 

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,694
Brexit | OT | Doomsday as a documentary

YwGYeMw.jpg
 

iapetus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,078
Unless they add a lot of MPs quickly, emptying both major parties of a few pro Europeans is a bad thing in my eyes.

The Labour party, sure. Emptying the Conservative party of a few might actually be a good thing, though, because it frees those MPs up from the whole party-over-country thing (or at least changes them over to a slightly more sane party), allowing them to vote against their former party more easily - and if it comes to it, that includes a vote of no confidence.
 
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