BREXIT |OT| A minister always pays his debts

Oct 31, 2018
526
That's a good thing when your influence has been as toxic as Britain's has been for some time now. The UK can always re-join as a full member when May's generation is cold in the ground and sane millennials have taken over.
Yep, and there are some good things the EU can do, if I recall they wanted to put a 1p tax on all share dealings, but back then the UK blocked it

Yep here it was

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/09/david-cameron-blocks-eu-treaty
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,652
London
Leadsom knows best. She is a mother after all. Just gloss over the fact that she's bat-shit-crazy.
She's joining in the Grieve amendment doesn't mean anything group, it's a bit worrying, she's nuts but she's a minister.
Only legislation can prevent a no deal seems to be the argument. i assumed legislation would follow a future decision, but May just needs to show nerve(hide in number 10) and face parliament down.
 
Oct 31, 2018
526
Yep.
FOM and in Customs Union, so no need for any checks.
Don’t forget though The EU is not so keen on Norway for the UK, and neither is Norway, as the UK is considered to big for a efta type deal

And crucially it would require the acceptance from the four countries in the efta deal at present, so this is not over, people thinking we will just rock up Jan 1st and order a Norway please, are in for a rude awakening
 
Oct 27, 2017
182
Wales
Norway is NOT part of the customs union. Formal import and export declarations and procedures currently need to be done if someone in an EU member state buys or sells goods to Norway.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,453
This is all such a huge waste of money, time, resources and sanity.
The biggest issue is not even the money, but the untold damage being done to the democratic system and how the lack of real statespeople is going to make it rot and stink for many, many years to come. Generations, even.

I only use Brexit lulz as a escape valve. As somebody from a country currently undergoing its own constitutional crisis of sorts due to nationalist pulsions and amateur politicians I feel for all of you.
 
Oct 31, 2018
526
Liam Fox continuing the rhetoric that Parliament may be about to destroy democracy


International Trade Secretary Liam Fox suggested the PM's deal was the only way of guaranteeing the UK leaves the EU, as scheduled, on 29 March 2019.
"When you are in prison and someone offers you a key, you take it," he told a committee of MPs.
While a no-deal exit would be "disorderly", he suggested the UK being kept in the EU against the will of the British people would be even more damaging.
"I think that there is a real danger that the House of Commons which has a natural remain majority may attempt to steal Brexit from British people which would be a democratic affront."
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,580
The Ocean
Liam Fox continuing the rhetoric that Parliament may be about to destroy democracy


International Trade Secretary Liam Fox suggested the PM's deal was the only way of guaranteeing the UK leaves the EU, as scheduled, on 29 March 2019.
"When you are in prison and someone offers you a key, you take it," he told a committee of MPs.
While a no-deal exit would be "disorderly", he suggested the UK being kept in the EU against the will of the British people would be even more damaging.
"I think that there is a real danger that the House of Commons which has a natural remain majority may attempt to steal Brexit from British people which would be a democratic affront."
“Line my pockets” Fox strikes again
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,453
A disorderly no deal Brexit probably means people dying from lack of medicines, vastly reduced supplies of fresh food across the country and power generators and water purification systems being flown in in extremis to avoid (if not reduce) an humanitarian catastrophe. Also, a return to bloody sectarian violence in NI and the rise of smuggling crime lords across the borders. From ciggies to fuel, everything and anything will become a profitable business for the worst kind of people.

No deal Brexit advocates cannot go unchallenged like that.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,424
Leadsom "Going forward, not only will government ministers be very careful about what they ask law officers to give advice on, but law officers themselves will be very reluctant to give any advice to government that they might then see published on the front pages of the newspapers, so it’s the principle of the thing.
And frankly I think any parliamentarian who wants at some point in the future to be in government is going to live to regret their vote last night."

Imagine her in a dictatorship. Yikes. What a lunatic.

Fox "There is a risk MPs could "steal Brexit from the British people" if Theresa May's proposed deal is rejected, a senior cabinet minister has warned.
Liam Fox said there was "natural Remain majority" in Parliament and any attempt to overturn the 2016 referendum vote would be a "democratic affront".

In reality, you're making it hard for me to be filthy rich by selling out you plebs.

Raab "We should go back to the EU, stop being blackmailed and bullied, make our best final offer, the terms that would be palatable to this country, that would give effect to the Referendum." He added that if that failed, Britain should be prepared to walk away without a deal.

Why is he even in the contention for leadership in any role.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,158
Chesire, UK
Well, at least now it's obvious why they didn't want this published.


Paragraph 16! The Protocol will "endure indefinitely"
Hit!


Paragraph 33! There is a legal risk that UK could become stuck in "protracted and repeating rounds of negotiations"
Hit!

You sunk the Government's argument!
 
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null

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,177
Hahaha they only got legal advice because they had to produce something and then the lawyers are like "in my professional opinion, y'all fucked it up"
 
OP
OP
theaface
Oct 25, 2017
1,735
This morning we’ve already had rhetoric about prisons, stealing and living to regret things. Sounds statesmanlike. Can’t see that escalating, no sir.
 
Oct 31, 2018
526
At least there is one politician in UK who understand what an agreement is and that it involves two parties who need to agree.

Lol

The agreement means if an agreement is not reached the backstop happens, if parliament can say no,then The agreement is null and void

EU will never allow that
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,191
Yeah, I still really don't understand why people are struggling to understand the concept of a fucking backstop.

If nothing else can be agreed... that's what happens. If there's a way out of it by one side then it's completely pointless.

It's like a safety net that some fucker can take away at will.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
9,171
London
Yep.
FOM and in Customs Union, so no need for any checks.
Norway is not in the customs union and is able to negotiate its own trade agreements as I understand it. It just cannot participate in any EU decision making and the ECJ is the final arbiter in any disputes.

All in all not a bad deal, but there's FOM and the ECJ which are both brexiteer red lines.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,299
Glasgow, Scotland
Yeah, I still really don't understand why people are struggling to understand the concept of a fucking backstop.

If nothing else can be agreed... that's what happens. If there's a way out of it by one side then it's completely pointless.

It's like a safety net that some fucker can take away at will.
I mean it's consistent at least, this is the same government that thought putting a backdoor into encrypted communication was feasible.
 

BeerMan

Using an alt account to circumvent a ban
Aug 4, 2018
221
Apparently JC really pulled his punches during PMQ, even though the legal advice has been released.

Did anyone watch PMQ?
JC has never engaged in forensic questioning. He doesn't do it on purpose, that's just his skillset and ability. It's why he's never been effective in PMQs. No different than any other PMQs. At times he makes a devastating point, but has no ability to follow up on Mays response and press the issue. And he never will. And he was more interested in poverty rather than talking about the released legal advice. That's what he's good at anyway.

We're lucky there is no debate this Sunday. Watching these two debate is fucking excruciating.
 
Nov 6, 2017
680
JC has never engaged in forensic questioning. He doesn't do it on purpose, that's just his skillset and ability. It's why he's never been effective in PMQs. No different than any other PMQs. At times he makes a devastating point, but has no ability to follow up on Mays response and press the issue. And he never will. And he was more interested in poverty rather than talking about the released legal advice. That's what he's good at anyway.

We're lucky there is no debate this Sunday. Watching these two debate is fucking excruciating.
He's after the soundbites for twitter / facebook.
He doesn't really care what May comes back with as it won't be included in the 40 second video
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,652
London
Apparently JC really pulled his punches during PMQ, even though the legal advice has been released.

Did anyone watch PMQ?
The tories are doing the damage to themselves so he doesn't need to do much anyway, i'm not sure what else you could do after a car crash like this except gloat.
 
Feb 19, 2018
345
London
Apparently JC really pulled his punches during PMQ, even though the legal advice has been released.

Did anyone watch PMQ?
Apparently he asked about poverty, the shambles that is Universal Credit, and those dickhead Tory MPs using food banks as a feel good photo op instead of a source of national shame.

Depending on your point of view this was either a wasted opportunity to sink the knife in over Brexit, or a good example of him talking about the Real Issues happening outside the Westminster bubble.

I'm in two minds myself.
 

BeerMan

Using an alt account to circumvent a ban
Aug 4, 2018
221
Parliament is completely gridlocked. There is no deal that would get enough votes. There is a chance we will get another referendum, because thats the only way out. There are also strong rumors that May could resign next week after the vote is lost.
 
Feb 19, 2018
345
London
I mean, we're about to spend literal days debating Brexit, and have been for 2 years
While in general I do agree that the ongoing never ending cluster fuck that is Brexit shouldn't be the only thing PMQs is about, and certainly have in the past thought the criticism of Corbyn for asking about something else was unfair, it's hard not to feel that today of all days he should have hammered May about it. Yesterday was a disaster for her and the government, her arrogance and deceit around Brexit finally biting her in the arse, and he should have capitalised on that.
 

null

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,177
Parliament is completely gridlocked. There is no deal that would get enough votes. There is a chance we will get another referendum, because thats the only way out. There are also strong rumors that May could resign next week after the vote is lost.
If we absolutely have to have some sort of deal, even if it's only to have a second ref, then something that is basically EEA with SM and CU access would get through.

The reason May's deal has failed is because she only concerned herself with appeasing different factions of the Tory party and there isn't enough in any camp. Had she reached out to work with Labour and everyone else instead of trying to wipe them out with an election she might have been okay.
 
Oct 26, 2017
712
So is Norway basically full EU membership (IE, free movement etc), but without any say in the rules?

It's shit compared to what we have now, but I could live with it.
In case we went for the Norway option, would the rebate still be there or would we end up losing the rebate so paying more for a worse option?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,292
In case we went for the Norway option, would the rebate still be there or would we end up losing the rebate so paying more for a worse option?
It would go. Norway isn't in CAP and the whole reasoning for the rebate is that we get a disproportionately low amount of the subsidies.

Although we probably wouldn't pay as much as we do now. It's a complicated question because it would have to be negotiated.