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BREXIT |OT| A minister always pays his debts

Oct 25, 2017
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Brexit Barometer on Radio 5 Live winds me up every morning. This morning's caller - Lee - was explaining how there was going to be no fall in GDP because it was as made up as the Millennium Bug. He then proceeded to explain how he personally had disproved the Bug to 6 different people by setting his video recorder in to 15 minutes past midnight, 2000 in the summer of 1999.

He then called Mark Carny 'economically illiterate'.
It's amazing what sorts of crazy a mild platform can attract. I went to a science conference that was open to the public, and during the keynote Q&A a dude started asking an innocuous sounding question about the importance of maths. Which of course spiralled into his grand theorem that everything universe can be solved via the algorithm and thus all resources should go towards solving that. Even brought along a poster the mad sod. Apparently he crashed a couple other panels as well.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,375
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Manchester, UK
Brexit Barometer on Radio 5 Live winds me up every morning. This morning's caller - Lee - was explaining how there was going to be no fall in GDP because it was as made up as the Millennium Bug. He then proceeded to explain how he personally had disproved the Bug to 6 different people by setting his video recorder in to 15 minutes past midnight, 2000 in the summer of 1999.

He then called Mark Carny 'economically illiterate'.
Having the name "Lee" seems to make you much more susceptible to becoming a gammon - it seems like most of the time i see someone called Lee on Twitter, they're talking some absolute fucking bollocks about Brexit
 
Nov 6, 2017
405
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Sent Email to my MP....
She's Labour, so pretty sure she'll be voting it down, but wanted to get it off my chest.


"Just wanted to drop an email ahead of the crucial vote in the commons on the 11th around the PM's Brexit deal.

Firstly, I voted to Remain in the referendum. I am a very keen believer in the European Project and despite knowing it is far from perfect, I truly believe that we as a country should become as integrated to Europe as possible.
Over the summer holidays we took a 3 week camping holiday with our young kids across Europe, visiting 5 different countries seamlessly, each with their own unique and distinct culture and it was a real joy to see.
I am genuinely sad that my kids (7,6 and 4) might not have the opportunity to travel, live and love across Europe that previous generations have been able to.

But, I also know that there was a referendum and leave won. I understand the reasons (well, think I do) for this. At the time of the vote we were in the 6th year of austerity which was / is hurting the most vulnerable in society and people / politicians / the media started to blame immigration and the EU for our ills, rather than pointing the finger firmly at the Tory government. The Leave campaign promised things would change, Remain promised things would stay the same and those with nothing, or very little, understandably, wanted things to change.

However, they were sold lies. They were promised things would get better, any negative stories were classified as "Project Fear" and the MSM backed up those lies, day after day.
The Leave campaign was based on lies and likely funded in part by illegal donations.

It's a almost impossible situation that has now been created. Cameron gave people who felt disenfranchised a chance to make a change. People took that chance and I understand the anger that's going to be created if they then get ignored.

But any form of Brexit, May's deal, Corbyn's proposed deal, Norway++++ or a hard Brexit is going to have a massive impact on the vulnerable and poorest in our society and it's got to be up to Parliament to stop that happening and then, somehow, deal with the consequences of that, because they are going to be a lot less severe then Brexit will be.

So, I'm hoping you'll vote May's deal down on the 11th, along with the rest of the Labour party.

The question of what happens next is a hard one, if we offer another referendum, there is still a chance that Leave could win again... but at least voting down this deal is the first step on a long journey to sort this issue created by Cameron."
 
Oct 31, 2018
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Things are happening

Graham Brady (powerful MP) has told the BBC that May could delay the vote so they can explore the way of leaving the backstop, he would welcome such a move, unless she can convince him in the next few days of her idea of parliament blocking the back stop

EU is going to be very pissed off
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,361
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Norn Iron
Things are happening

Graham Brady (powerful MP) has told the BBC that May could delay the vote so they can explore the way of leaving the backstop, he would welcome such a move, unless she can convince him in the next few days of her idea of parliament blocking the back stop

EU is going to be very pissed off
One more kick of the can? I don't see how they can avoid having a proper backstop.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,718
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Chesire, UK
Sent Email to my MP....
She's Labour, so pretty sure she'll be voting it down, but wanted to get it off my chest.
Making sure your MP is aware of your strongly held views is an important part of our democracy, so good on you.

The following Labour (or former Labour) MPs have currently not given a public position on how they intend to vote on May's deal:

John Mann – Bassetlaw
Ian Austin – Dudley North
Sir Kevin Barron – Rother Valley
John Spellar – Warley
Jim Fitzpatrick – Poplar and Limehouse
Frank Field – Birkenhead
John Woodcock – Barrow and Furness
Kelvin Hopkins – Luton North

Anyone living in any of the above constituencies would be doing a service to democracy by writing to their MP and making their feelings clear.
 
Oct 25, 2017
282
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If we had a second referendum and remain won, we'd have a few weeks of noise and pushback before things died down and we moved on.

If leave won again we'd continue to have years of disorder and angst among the public.

So any MP or person that says we should leave to 'just get on with it' can go fuck themselves.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,270
0
Sheffield, UK
Making sure your MP is aware of your strongly held views is an important part of our democracy, so good on you.

The following Labour (or former Labour) MPs have currently not given a public position on how they intend to vote on May's deal:

John Mann – Bassetlaw
Ian Austin – Dudley North
Sir Kevin Barron – Rother Valley
John Spellar – Warley
Jim Fitzpatrick – Poplar and Limehouse
Frank Field – Birkenhead
John Woodcock – Barrow and Furness
Kelvin Hopkins – Luton North

Anyone living in any of the above constituencies would be doing a service to democracy by writing to their MP and making their feelings clear.
Thanks for this. I'm in Rother Valley so I'll let Kev know what's what.
 

plagiarize

Mighty Jagrafess
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,772
0
Cape Cod, MA
Brexit Barometer on Radio 5 Live winds me up every morning. This morning's caller - Lee - was explaining how there was going to be no fall in GDP because it was as made up as the Millennium Bug. He then proceeded to explain how he personally had disproved the Bug to 6 different people by setting his video recorder in to 15 minutes past midnight, 2000 in the summer of 1999.

He then called Mark Carny 'economically illiterate'.
I work in IT. Nothing frustrates me more than people pointing to a disaster my industry averted, as an example of a time when people freaked out about nothing.

We worked countless hours to fix that shit before it caused any problems.
 
This gammon motherfucker. Huw_Dawson what’s the odds on him being expelled from the party for this?

On the flip side I emailed my MP Alan Whitehead in Fremantle, Southampton and he told me he’s voting no. Good man!

Thank you for taking the time to contact me about the current situation surrounding Brexit. Everyone will know now that, less than four months from the end of the period allowed for it by the unwise and premature triggering of Article 50 notifying the EU of the UK’s intention to leave the EU, a ‘deal’ of sorts has been agreed upon by the Government and EU negotiators which sets out what the UK’s relationship will be with the EU after Brexit is complete.

The ‘deal’ however falls very far short of what could constitute a reasonable outcome for that future relationship: it fails to conclude any sort of arrangement whereby the UK remains in or close to the customs union or the single market, and it fails to provide a satisfactory solution to the problem of trade and the Northern Ireland border. It is such a sketchy agreement that most areas of concern about future arrangements on trade, border issues, security, movement and many other issues remain to be negotiated after the UK has left the EU. A ‘transitional period’ is envisaged while those negotiations take place during which the UK, even though it will have left the EU, will take whatever rules are imposed upon it by the EU without any say in the processes, and will be required to ‘negotiate’ on the basis of no position at all in relation to the EU. The government’s own estimates suggest that Britain would be substantially worse off if the deal was agreed.

This deal is so poor that I cannot seriously believe that many people, if they had known the outcome, would have voted for it as part of the referendum process. For that reason, I cannot support it and will vote against it when Parliament has the opportunity to consider it on 11th December.
 
This gammon motherfucker. Huw_Dawson what’s the odds on him being expelled from the party for this?
Not much of one. He's only voting for the Agreement because he pledged to do so if he was voted back in as MP in 2017. If we get a snap GE or something he'll probably stand as the LD candidate again.

The dude's not a gammon. His resignation letter was pretty clear that he thinks Brexit is a stupid idea.

It's a tricky one which would have been easily solved had he not made the pledge in the first place.

Fortunately his action is symbolic rather than anything else. The WA is toast and he'll vote No Confidence in the government when it comes to it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,361
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Norn Iron
Theresa May’s Team Has Discussed A Second Referendum Or A Softer Brexit If Her Deal Is Killed Next Week

Some of Theresa May’s Downing Street advisers have urged her to consider a second referendum while others have argued for a softer Brexit, BuzzFeed News has learned, as splits emerge in the prime minister’s top team on how to respond in the likely event that her deal is rejected by MPs next week.

Number 10 has insisted there is no plan B if May’s deal fails, but as Westminster counts down to Tuesday’s meaningful vote on the withdrawal agreement, conversations have taken place between the PM and her closest aides about how she could proceed if it is voted down.

BuzzFeed News understands that several of the PM’s senior allies have raised the prospect of another referendum, with voters offered a choice between her deal and remaining in the EU. Those sympathetic to the idea believe she could win by guaranteeing an end to free movement and have said it is the only way she will be able to secure a mandate for her exit plan.

A source familiar with the conversations said May’s chief of staff Gavin Barwell and chief whip Julian Smith have discussed the merits of a second referendum.

But the source said May has vociferously opposed the idea of another public vote whenever it has been raised, because she believes it is her duty to fulfil the result of the 2016 referendum and cannot risk Brexit being reversed. “It is the only time she loses her temper and raises her voice,” they said. Downing Street declined to comment on private conversations.

The other option being discussed by May’s allies is softening the deal so she could win the backing of Conservative Remainers and Labour MPs in a second vote. Several cabinet ministers are pushing for a Norway-style plan B, with the UK remaining inside the single market.

It has previously been assumed that May would never countenance a Norway-style deal because it would mean continuing freedom of movement, which has been seen as a red line she will not cross. One of May’s closest aides told BuzzFeed News earlier this year that both he and the PM would resign rather than accept free movement.

But May’s doubts about a second referendum have led colleagues to believe she could seek a softer Brexit rather than risk no Brexit at all, even though she believes it would be a worse outcome than her deal. “As bad as EEA is, at least it’s leaving,” said a Whitehall source, referring to membership of the European Economic Area.

May has previously publicly ruled out both a Norway-style Brexit and a second referendum, and the catch-22 scenario has led both Leave and Remain Tories to conclude the PM has run out of road.

A Remain-voting cabinet minister is planning for an imminent leadership contest and has made offers of jobs to both prominent Remainers and Brexiteers.

If May loses Tuesday’s vote by a significant margin, Tory MPs on both the Leave and Remain sides expect her to either resign or face a leadership challenge.

Tory Leavers told BuzzFeed News that if she lost by a small margin, they would demand she goes back to Brussels and attempt to renegotiate the backstop arrangement. They said she would be ousted if she attempted to hold a second referendum or soften the deal.

A former cabinet minister said: “Theresa and this government had one job: to deliver the will of the people by delivering Brexit. If they fail to deliver on that, it’s not just game over for Theresa, it’s game over for the Tories. She either has to go back to Brussels and say no to the backstop or it’s no deal. Or, if she’s unwilling to do that, we need someone that will. Anything less, and the Tory party is finished.”

A second former minister said: “I’m not sure she can or should stay on after she loses the meaningful vote. She’s lost all power and all control. For two years she hasn’t listened to her party and so now they no longer listen to her. The fundamental problem is no one trusts her. If she stays, she continues to split the party.”

The view in cabinet is that, if May’s deal is rejected but she does stay on, a second referendum and a softer Brexit are her only two realistic options. Ministers have concluded that any attempt by May to renegotiate the backstop would fail, that a no-deal Brexit would cause mass cabinet resignations and be blocked by parliament, and that Tory MPs would prevent her from calling a general election.

Both a second referendum and a softer Brexit are looked upon grimly by May’s aides, who now fear they won’t be able to deliver on their promises to voters. “It has come to the point where you feel like you are in that Mitchell and Webb sketch when one of the Nazis looks at the other and asks, ‘Are we the baddies?’” said a Number 10 aide.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/may-team-second-referendum-soft-brexit?bftwuk&utm_term=4ldqpgm
 
Oct 25, 2017
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I'm okay with Labour negotiating something that wouldn't be complete suicide just for the sake of it and then putting it to a second ref.

I've said before but if you have to "leave" let's at least do it in a way that just makes us look like arseholes not actually cripple people.

The bigger issue for Labour is they go and get a deal and then what? I don't think anyone is going to campaign for remain because why would you make the effort then say don't vote for it.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,720
0
London
The best way out of this mess is to let it collapse upon itself with the tories running the show, Corbyn being a bit deluded/playing daft helps in my opinion. I don't think he has a cunning plan or anything but he's not giving the Brexit mob any easy excuses for their failure.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,442
0
Burn it all down because you have to deliver the result. Isn't she nice. I don't think she will ever be unthroned while Brexit is still a thing, nobody wants that hanging around their neck and the party wouldn't put someone like Boris, Gov, Raab in charge. They are up shit creek.

I still don't understand why a 2nd Referendum is a bad thing other than a loss for either side. It's clearly a huge issue, we know more than we ever did two years ago, the reality isn't completely clear but clear enough. It's still the people's choice, you aren't forcing them to vote one way or another, you still have a say in the end. They either fear people will vote leave again or vote remain, I dunno, they could hypothetically wiggle out of this and remain without the need of a 2nd Referendum but is that what Tories want deep down, 4D chess? I wonder if they did a 60/40 threshold and if neither choice got 60 then remain is default.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,720
0
London
Burn it all down because you have to deliver the result. Isn't she nice. I don't think she will ever be unthroned while Brexit is still a thing, nobody wants that hanging around their neck and the party wouldn't put someone like Boris, Gov, Raab in charge. They are up shit creek.

I still don't understand why a 2nd Referendum is a bad thing other than a loss for either side. It's clearly a huge issue, we know more than we ever did two years ago, the reality isn't completely clear but clear enough. It's still the people's choice, you aren't forcing them to vote one way or another, you still have a say in the end. They either fear people will vote leave again or vote remain, I dunno, they could hypothetically wiggle out of this and remain without the need of a 2nd Referendum but is that what Tories want deep down, 4D chess? I wonder if they did a 60/40 threshold and if neither choice got 60 then remain is default.
I think she will back down, she likes being in number 10.
The national interest will suddenly be about her finding a way forward to unite the nation, or some other load of old bollocks.
She's just going to do it the hard way and suffer another humiliating vote first.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,718
0
Chesire, UK
Both a second referendum and a softer Brexit are looked upon grimly by May’s aides, who now fear they won’t be able to deliver on their promises to voters. “It has come to the point where you feel like you are in that Mitchell and Webb sketch when one of the Nazis looks at the other and asks, ‘Are we the baddies?’” said a Number 10 aide.
Oh my god, there is some self awareness inside Number 10.