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BREXIT |OT| A minister always pays his debts

Oct 31, 2018
418
There is a lot of love for the speaker in here today, I am not a fan of what he done, as we seem to be heading in a very downhill direction in politics where all conventions are now just ignored. Mays gov should of fallen months ago, and they ignore all these defeats, where before it would of collapsed them...and now it seems the speaker is now dropping the level required of his office

But of course let’s not forget a lot of people feel the Speaker started all this by allowing an amendment to the queens speech all those years ago
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,145
If anything I think this whole process has shown the benefits of a written constitution over a convoluted mess of obscure conventions and precedents. We shouldn't be going into situations like we have been recently, where the genuine answer from constitutional experts to what happens next on matters of law and the process of government is a shrug and "nobody knows".

Things have happened recently that would previously have provoked resignations, if not the collapse of the government, and they're routinely ignored because it wasn't the most stupid thing to have happened in Westminster that day.
 
Oct 26, 2017
882
I don't like the precedent Bercow has set. I think it's damaging to a system that has been in place for a long time for a good reason. The fact that it brings about potentially good things doesn't make it a good thing in and of itself.

However, it was entirely necessary because of the way the government (and most specifically May) is going about things. They're abusing the rules to stifle debate of the most important act of government in decades, and he's breaking the rules to redress the balance.

Any Brexiteer who complains about this can go fuck themselves with a holly bush. Because it's not about xenophobia, it's not about the economy, apparently it's all about sovereignty and how unfair it is for a Europe that we didn't vote for to ride roughshod over our parliament. That' what they keep telling me, anyway. So they have no right to complain when someone acts to prevent an unelected Prime Minister riding roughshod over our parliament.
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,975
I don't like the precedent Bercow has set. I think it's damaging to a system that has been in place for a long time for a good reason. The fact that it brings about potentially good things doesn't make it a good thing in and of itself.

However, it was entirely necessary because of the way the government (and most specifically May) is going about things. They're abusing the rules to stifle debate of the most important act of government in decades, and he's breaking the rules to redress the balance.

Any Brexiteer who complains about this can go fuck themselves with a holly bush. Because it's not about xenophobia, it's not about the economy, apparently it's all about sovereignty and how unfair it is for a Europe that we didn't vote for to ride roughshod over our parliament. That' what they keep telling me, anyway. So they have no right to complain when someone acts to prevent an unelected Prime Minister riding roughshod over our parliament.
This is pretty much how I feel on the subject.

You can't flout all of the conventions to your own advantage and then complain when someone does it to your disadvantage.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,940
I don't like the precedent Bercow has set. I think it's damaging to a system that has been in place for a long time for a good reason. The fact that it brings about potentially good things doesn't make it a good thing in and of itself.

However, it was entirely necessary because of the way the government (and most specifically May) is going about things. They're abusing the rules to stifle debate of the most important act of government in decades, and he's breaking the rules to redress the balance.

Any Brexiteer who complains about this can go fuck themselves with a holly bush. Because it's not about xenophobia, it's not about the economy, apparently it's all about sovereignty and how unfair it is for a Europe that we didn't vote for to ride roughshod over our parliament. That' what they keep telling me, anyway. So they have no right to complain when someone acts to prevent an unelected Prime Minister riding roughshod over our parliament.
Thing is, Bercrow isn't really breaking the rules because as we've learned in the past few months, there aren't any rules. There are traditions and conventions, but those aren't rules in any enforceable sense. And that's the problem.
 
Oct 31, 2018
418
I don't like the precedent Bercow has set. I think it's damaging to a system that has been in place for a long time for a good reason. The fact that it brings about potentially good things doesn't make it a good thing in and of itself.

However, it was entirely necessary because of the way the government (and most specifically May) is going about things. They're abusing the rules to stifle debate of the most important act of government in decades, and he's breaking the rules to redress the balance.

Any Brexiteer who complains about this can go fuck themselves with a holly bush. Because it's not about xenophobia, it's not about the economy, apparently it's all about sovereignty and how unfair it is for a Europe that we didn't vote for to ride roughshod over our parliament. That' what they keep telling me, anyway. So they have no right to complain when someone acts to prevent an unelected Prime Minister riding roughshod over our parliament.
Listening to a late night show last night, the exclusive consensus was he done it because of May pissing him off before Xmas over pulling the vote and ignoring him about having a vote to pull the vote...

Of course if he did that is damaging as he is suppose to be neutral, it was also agreed as he does not have long left, he may be going out with a bang

Of course I just don’t like it as you learn quite quickly that when one thing goes your way, that very thing will be used at some point against you as well.... I would of much preferred it if he had stayed with convention
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,145
I think if anything the last two years has really taught me just how much of our government is run on a Gentleman's agreement which is completely unenforceable if someone decides to flout convention
The same thing's happening in the States. I think once the dust settles on both sides of the Atlantic a lot of conventions and processes that were taken for granted are going to have to be given teeth.
 
Oct 31, 2018
418
JLR are laying off 5000 staff here, if anyone wants a classic example how the Orange Turd over the pond can fuck us with his trade wars, The Chinese market is JLR biggest money maker and sales have dropped 50% which is largely attributed to trade tensions....Diesel sales collapsing have also not helped as I believe most of their vehicles are diesel
 
Oct 28, 2017
570
JLR are laying off 5000 staff here, if anyone wants a classic example how the Orange Turd over the pond can fuck us with his trade wars, The Chinese market is JLR biggest money maker and sales have dropped 50% which is largely attributed to trade tensions....Diesel sales collapsing have also not helped as I believe most of their vehicles are diesel
90% of their output is diesel, though they are working to diversify to electric and other biofuels. Won't be much chance of that considering it'll be harder to get parts over the border come end of March. Company looks like its on its last legs with this small act today.
 
Oct 31, 2018
418
FFS Corbyn just made a statement calling for a GE, he will then renegotiate a better deal, that has lots of unicorns in it

which he says would see the UK in a permanent customs union with the EU and with a close relationship with the single market.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,196
JLR are laying off 5000 staff here, if anyone wants a classic example how the Orange Turd over the pond can fuck us with his trade wars, The Chinese market is JLR biggest money maker and sales have dropped 50% which is largely attributed to trade tensions....Diesel sales collapsing have also not helped as I believe most of their vehicles are diesel
JLR is getting megaboned mostly because of their engines. Diesel heavy manufacturers are in for a lot of pain, which is why PSA, which used to be super bully about diesel, is moving towards electric at rapid pace.

Still, that makes JLR even more fragile in case Brexit goes bad for the British automotive industry (and it will go bad).
 
Oct 26, 2017
882
Thing is, Bercrow isn't really breaking the rules because as we've learned in the past few months, there aren't any rules. There are traditions and conventions, but those aren't rules in any enforceable sense. And that's the problem.
Well exactly. Government in general, and democracies in particular, only really work if everyone plays by the rules and acts in good faith. The massive swing in politics across the world at the moment is because one side has decided not to do that any more, to a much greater extent than ever before.
 
Oct 26, 2017
488
Greece
Whatever, just do the freaking no-deal Brexit; they should just stop dragging out this shitshow, they turned UK into the laughing stock of all of Europe. EU made it very clear they won't get another deal, it's either this one or nothing (and this one is being rejected).

This is like a breakup where the girl just doesn't get it, and prolongs her own agony.
 
Whatever, just do the freaking no-deal Brexit; they should just stop dragging out this shitshow, they turned UK into the laughing stock of all of Europe. EU made it very clear they won't get another deal, it's either this one or nothing (and this one is being rejected).

This is like a breakup where the girl just doesn't get it, and prolongs her own agony.
Except the one breaking up the relationship is also the one who just doesn’t get it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
488
Greece
Except the one breaking up the relationship is also the one who just doesn’t get it.
That is actually what I meant, I just forgot who broke up with who.

So maybe its more like:

A 70 year old guy breaking up with his GF, because he thinks he'll find a 18 year old supermodel elsewhere, but he still wants to keep that old girl as some friend, even though she absolutely hates him now but she only agreed to some sort of compromise because she pities him, but that still wasn't good enough for him.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,025
Leadsom and Bercow are continuing their feud.

Leadsom, a Brexiter, told MPs this morning that the speaker’s job was to “uphold the rules that parliament has made for itself, not to arbitrarily change those rules”.
In response, Bercow said:
There was nothing arbitrary about the conduct of the chair yesterday.
This speaker is well aware of how to go about the business of chairing the proceedings of the House because he’s been doing so for nine and a half years.
I hope colleagues will understand when I say that I require no lessons or lectures from others about how to discharge my obligations to parliament and in support of the rights of backbench parliamentarians.
I have been doing it, I’m continuing to do it and I will go on doing it, no matter how much abuse I get from whatever quarter. It’s water off a duck’s back as far as I am concerned.​
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,008
London
Whatever, just do the freaking no-deal Brexit; they should just stop dragging out this shitshow, they turned UK into the laughing stock of all of Europe. EU made it very clear they won't get another deal, it's either this one or nothing (and this one is being rejected).

This is like a breakup where the girl just doesn't get it, and prolongs her own agony.
Well kind of, we could have a different deal if we are prepared to be realistic and give and take properly.
 
The only way Labout can get a better deal is if they accept the 4 freedoms. Which is possibly their intention, but they won’t say it out loud, because xenophobia is supported these days. The thing is, without saying it explicitly they end up as untrustworthy as the tories and who knows if that’s even what they are thinking.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,940
The only way Labout can get a better deal is if they accept the 4 freedoms. Which is possibly their intention, but they won’t say it out loud, because xenophobia is supported these days. The thing is, without saying it explicitly they end up as untrustworthy as the tories and who knows if that’s even what they are thinking.
Corbyn is against Freedom of Movement. There's no way he'll accept the 4 freedoms.
 
Oct 28, 2017
417


EDITED:
Yeah fuck it, this solves it for me, I now know we are living in a deep ai sort of simulation, it just simply grabbed the onion articles humanity produced and continued its simulation based on that, it is the only reasonable explanation for all of this.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
2,940
Brexit plan B debate will last only 90 minutes, says No 10

Downing Street has said that if Theresa May’s deal is voted down, any debate over a Brexit plan B would be 90 minutes long and only one amendment would be allowed.

The prime minister’s spokesman told reporters at Thursday morning’s lobby briefing that No 10’s understanding of the Dominic Grieve amendment, which requires May to outline a plan B in three working days if she is defeated, was that only a limited debate would then be allowed.
I can't see that going down at all well.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,940
Thing is Labour's tests are basically "all the benefits of our current deal"
Now either that means they're talking through their arse because you can't have all benefits yet say you're against Freedom of Movement, or they're just as xenophobic as the Tories and Labour/Corbyn don't class freedom of movement as a benefit
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,967
Corbyn is really pushing for a GE isn’t he. Next week will be interesting.
I'm still wary of how a GE would work in this climate. I guess the gambit is the Tories would have to run it on May's deal (unless she resigns), and so many people hate it Labour would get the win. But the Tories can't be dumb enough to let that happen, May would step down and we'd get unicorn vs unicorn.

Not to mention I can't see either party coming up with a brexit policy on their manifesto that all the candidates agree on. In which case we end up with a parliament of split opinion again.
 
There's no way Labour will win enough seats to make a difference. Whole thing is beyond fucked.
Bingo! He won’t win polls still have give the Tories the edge so it’ll be a complete mess whilst the Brexit bomb continues to tick.

I'm still wary of how a GE would work in this climate. I guess the gambit is the Tories would have to run it on May's deal (unless she resigns), and so many people hate it Labour would get the win. But the Tories can't be dumb enough to let that happen, May would step down and we'd get unicorn vs unicorn.

Not to mention I can't see either party coming up with a brexit policy on their manifesto that all the candidates agree on. In which case we end up with a parliament of split opinion again.
A GE right now will get ugly. This what bothers me with Corbyn, he insists that there is a better deal but he’ll run into the same problem as May, struggling to get it through Parliament.