BREXIT |OT| A minister always pays his debts

Oct 28, 2017
345
What's the point of the "what if?", though?

Remain is better than Leave, categorically. It's not a controversial (on here, I guess) or original position, but what's the point of planting your flag in the "I'd take Tory Remain over Labour Leave" hypothetical when it has no realistic chance of happening?

Y'know, other to express some sort of support for the Tories?
Well I’m not sure why the initial poster did decide to come in with that stance, you’d have to ask them, but it inevitably spawned discussion, with funnily enough, differing points. I don’t see why it’s an issue to discuss on a forum, what if scenarios, albeit pointless, much like most of the discussions we have across the entirety of Era...

Implying you're a secret Tory because of that discussion is... a rather childish view, I'd say.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,780
Yeah, I'm sorry about that post. I hoped to underline that I'm American and obviously learning about your government and your political situation. I've read other people at other places say that the EU was basically the final thing between the Tories and all-out Americanization of your social programs and your economy, and I know that there are obviously quite a few Tory remainers (which May was before she became PM and decided to resolutely stick to her exit plan) and that Labour is, in some part, unhappy with Corbyn's seeming willingness to leave.

I was reading an article on The Guardian maybe a couple weeks ago, I think it was, about the tight spot that Labour Leave MPs are in in terms of what their constituents who voted leave want and what the general party support wants re: Brexit. That, along with the discussions of the EU's role in keeping the Tories from enacting their plan and the news about upset Labour MPs who aren't happy with Corbyn signaling that he'll lead his party to play ball with May for the right Brexit plan, led me to asking what I asked. Maybe I should have asked that question with more of that context in mind. I didn't mean to offer up a political fantasy or cause discord. I apologize for that.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,166
In messages leaked to BuzzFeed News, Perry wrote that Chope and his veteran Brexiteer colleagues Peter Bone and Bernard Jenkin "don't give a toss", adding: "They are not politicians they are zealots for whom winning an argument beats winning an election". Turning the conversation to Brexit, Perry said: "It’s the same with the backstop".
The minister also asked the group: "Is anyone else bored to sobs with fighting this posse of old buffers who have achieved their dream of taking over the party again?", before warning that the Tories would lose the next election and become an opposition party "of the white shires and shores".
She wrote: "Here’s my prediction: mass exodus of Tory talent at the next election just like the last (both voluntary and involuntary) so we can retreat to being an oppo party of the white shires and Shores and we can talk to each other all day long about utter bollocks!
https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/al...have-been-taken#click=https://t.co/Pa8mbFfzx8
 
Nov 13, 2017
219

null

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,170
Is there really any time to hold a referendum? I thought I'd read the whole process, from a purely organisational point of view, took two months or more?
A second ref would be enough for an extension. I think the EU would happily take it too as it's basically a win win for them.
 

Beefy

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,343
I know it isn't Brexit but this dude is pretty good Brexit wise and I think some of you follow him.

But here he is defend terfs... so yeh
 
Feb 19, 2018
334
London
British polite society is riddled with terfs. They're not all Graham Linehan level hateful but sadly pretty common because they all move in the same circles so when some of the big names in British feminism came out loudly as terfs they took a lot of people who'd never really thought about it with them.
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,182
That's...actually a pretty good idea. No deal is taken off the table. Remainers get the second referendum and May supporters get their deal passed. Only people I see taking issue with this are the diehard brexiteers worried about giving the people another vote with an outcome they won't like.
Initially I was like "Oh fuck off... more bullshit.", but yeah, this is actually pretty smart. No-one really loses face for undermining the "will of the people".
 
Oct 28, 2017
479
This is definitely interesting, although it is clear as day that it is just cover for MPs to vote remain without seeming like they voted remain, the only way May deal would ever win out against Remain is if the EU wouldn't provide an extension, or the referendum wouldn't come to be in that time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
667
May's deal (which is just an 18 month can kick, with the vague intention of making a unicorn trade deal and ending free movement and using leprechauns to patrol the Irish border), then a vote to fix her deal seems very sensible.
Only the hard Brexiteers won't like it.

May would split her party, but hard brexit would destroy the Tory's reputation even more. People never forgave Labour for the winter of discontent. They won't forgive the Tories for the summer of shite if we crash out with no deal while the Tory old cunts brigade cheer it along.
The ERG failed in their coup and have little backbench support. May can survive their rebellion.
However, May is a coward and might just suffer hard Brexit because hard Brexit can be blamed on old Tories and (somehow) Corbyn opposing her deal, but if a compromise deal/vote went wrong then she gets the blame.
 
Oct 28, 2017
106
I'm not sure a no-deal Brexit would ruin the Tories. They clearly will have a core 30-35% of voters who will always vote for them. Any negative effects of no-deal will be successfully spun as the fault of the EU, Labour, Remainers, etc.

The Tories might lose the next election by a close amount but they will hang around like a bad smell.
 
Oct 25, 2017
982
Lol so if there was a GE tomorrow the Lib Dem’s would hold the 2nd largest party. Corbyn has failed as the leader of Labour as he said to May, step aside.
No, that’s leader’s favourability ratings. Nothing to do with general election voting intentions. Generally it’s a measure you can use to sense check how enthusiastic a party’s supporters are.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,626
London
Lol so if there was a GE tomorrow the Lib Dem’s would hold the 2nd largest party. Corbyn has failed as the leader of Labour as he said to May, step aside.
It tells me that voters have bizarre standards, she's an endless disaster zone, appoints idiots to jobs they shouldn't have, and like Grayling yesterday is incapable of getting rid of dangerously bad people.

She should be lower than everyone except the nutter in charge of ukip, I can only think it's the incumbency effect holding her figures up.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,800
I'm not sure a no-deal Brexit would ruin the Tories. They clearly will have a core 30-35% of voters who will always vote for them. Any negative effects of no-deal will be successfully spun as the fault of the EU, Labour, Remainers, etc.
As long as the entire press and the BBC remain Tory propaganda, the party is shielded from any long-lasting consequence. The problem lies with the media of this country.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,614
Lol so if there was a GE tomorrow the Lib Dem’s would hold the 2nd largest party. Corbyn has failed as the leader of Labour as he said to May, step aside.
Eehhh...I wouldn’t translate individuals’ approval ratings to their respective parties. Labour would quite clearly be above LibDems.
 
No, that’s leader’s favourability ratings. Nothing to do with general election voting intentions. Generally it’s a measure you can use to sense check how enthusiastic a party’s supporters are.
Ah I thought it was poll ratings I see now.
….no. The Lib Dems are dead
lol
It tells me that voters have bizarre standards, she's an endless disaster zone, appoints idiots to jobs they shouldn't have, and like Grayling yesterday is incapable of getting rid of dangerously bad people.

She should be lower than everyone except the nutter in charge of ukip, I can only think it's the incumbency effect holding her figures up.
She is a disaster, She was terrible as Home Sec and an even worse PM. It really is a tussle between May and Cameron for the worse PM title.

Eehhh...I wouldn’t translate individuals’ approval ratings to their respective parties. Labour would quite clearly be above LibDems.
Yeh I misread it at first I see now it's personal approval ratings, Corbyn has really sunk.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,432
It tells me that voters have bizarre standards, she's an endless disaster zone, appoints idiots to jobs they shouldn't have, and like Grayling yesterday is incapable of getting rid of dangerously bad people.

She should be lower than everyone except the nutter in charge of ukip, I can only think it's the incumbency effect holding her figures up.
At this point I'm convinced that 50 years from now the descendants of Yvette Fielding and Derek Acorah will be attempting to exorcise the ghost of May from no 10.

Nobody would survive this shit usually but since 2016 anything goes in politics.
 
Feb 19, 2018
334
London
They were out of power from 1996 to 2015 after Black Wednesday and sleeze under Major. They can be damaged.
2010*

Coalition government was a Tory government. Massive cuts across the board that killed thousands and made this country a much worse place to live if you're not rich? Tory government.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,897
When Tony Blair won in 1997, he won with about a million less votes than Major did in 1992. There will always be a certain bloc of votes that go to the Tories and nothing much will change that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,221
I suppose it's the benefit of being non existent, the only thing I can remember about Cable as leader is not showing up for a vote.
This is exactly it, Vince doesn't have to deal with the biggest amount of negative coverage any leader of a party has probably ever had to deal with like corbyn.

Some of it is deserved, most of it isn't but it takes its tolls on the polls. That's why during the election Labour shot up in the polls because papers couldn't do this due to equal coverage laws.

Would Labour benefit from an equal amount of growth if another election comes? Probably not but I'm willing to bet Labour would make more gains then where they are now which is basically level pegging with the tories.

Of course that depends on brexit and what happens and what labour's current position would be as that could have a serious negative effect but even then, compared to the tories they have much less shit on their hands and a better vision and message for a campaign the the tories could ever hope for.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,897
Problem is, that clearly doesn't happen. Whether it's the fact that people tend to move towards the right economically as they get older, or that society moves left of their views they have when they are about 25, it doesn't matter. Waiting for old age and death hasn't worked in the past.