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BREXIT |OT| A minister always pays his debts

Oct 25, 2017
2,719
I'm sorry but I'm with Wollaston. The EU don't have to give the UK an extension and have said multiple times that they would for a referendum. Today is when parliament decide whether or not to ask for one. Screw the party bullcrap and WHICH deal they want on the ballot etc.

The only way we can even talk about such a thing is if we take an actual step to remove the threat of no deal on March 29th. Unless you're planning to do a referendum in less than a week.
You can stack it up however you want- the votes that would enable a second referendum to happen simply don't exist yet. Everyone throwing their weight behind a second referendum vote now is only going to fail.

The only chance is for the second referendum to be the last option standing, and we're not even close to that yet.
But it was never going to pass today, ever. Just look at the results. That's the reason why people have an issue with it being done today. You'd need more tory rebels on board, and honestly, that'll only happen if their backs are literally against the wall.
Yeah, that, basically.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,684
Do you realize the message it sends to the EU when those who supposedly campaign for a second referendum doesn't even show up to a vote on the matter because of internal politics?

It's even more unlikely for them to grant an extension now because why should they when it's clear MPs care more about their seats than acting in good faith?
334 MPs turned up to vote against it.

If a 2nd referendum was a real possibility there would be supporters on the Tory benches that would also abstain on the matter.

Now it seems clear the only way to get a 2nd referendum is to have a general election.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,889
Conservative on BBC going

"I hope the EU will see sense in the interest of the EU and the UK" along with threatening the 39bn that we owe the EU

fucking god damned fucking idiots.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,500
334 MPs turned up to vote against it.

If a 2nd referendum was a real possibility there would be supporters on the Tory benches that would also abstain on the matter.

Now it seems clear the only way to get a 2nd referendum is to have a general election.
None of them are going to break the whip for a vote they know will fail so I wouldn't read too much into the Tory vote.

There's more than a few that have publicly expressed their support for a second ref so when it comes to it it's going to be much much closer.
 

plagiarize

Yearning to breathe free
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,127
Cape Cod, MA
But it was never going to pass today, ever. Just look at the results. That's the reason why people have an issue with it being done today. You'd need more tory rebels on board, and honestly, that'll only happen if their backs are literally against the wall.
That's not a reason to abstain. That's the opposite of a reason to abstain.

I can understand why the campaign didn't want the vote to happen today. I can understand why it wasn't the best opportunity to bring this issue forwards (even if I believe it was absolutely right to bring this issue forwards today).

But 'it won't win anyway' isn't a reason to abstain from voting for something you support. Not if the vote is going ahead anyway.
 
Nov 29, 2017
192
Yeah when you have the very people that spent a better part of two years wanting a ref and spending millions to do so, them saying not to vote for it should have been a big fat red warning to let this vote sink.

A cock up by the TIG. But not surprising, conniving idiots are it more in it for themselves then the other mps anyway.

Also, for those asking why not vote for the ref yet, we’ll its a last resort, when all other options are exausted. Real close to the wire stuff, and the people in charge of the respective campaigns know that all too well. We are not there yet option wise, it’s close though.
 
Nov 8, 2017
4,330
He could have campaigned for Europe when it mattered -> Two years ago. He is indeed also partialy at fault, but please spare me with that stupid victimization of that man, ok?
I agree, he is partially at fault and his leadership has been weak at times but he is the better of the 2 evils. May campaigned to stay in the EU yet yesterday voted to take the UK out of the EU without a deal.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,406
Benn's amendment failed to pass by (I think) just four votes.

EDIT - apologies, I was confused as it was an amendment to the amendment that didn't pass.
 
Last edited:

plagiarize

Yearning to breathe free
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,127
Cape Cod, MA
I agree, he is partially at fault and his leadership has been weak at times but he is the better of the 2 evils. May campaigned to stay in the EU yet yesterday voted to take the UK out of the EU without a deal.
Corbyn would be preferable to May for a whole boat load of reasons.

But I still think people who disagree with me that he's clearly pro leave are burying their heads in the sand.

And I know having this argument right now isn't helpful.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,245
That's not a reason to abstain. That's the opposite of a reason to abstain.

I can understand why the campaign didn't want the vote to happen today. I can understand why it wasn't the best opportunity to bring this issue forwards (even if I believe it was absolutely right to bring this issue forwards today).

But 'it won't win anyway' isn't a reason to abstain from voting for something you support. Not if the vote is going ahead anyway.
I mean there's other reasons for why they abstained as mentioned in the edited second part of my post.

I don't agree with labour's stance at the moment but I get what they tried to do in that they sat on the fence for it as to not anger people when it isn't going to pass anyway.

Like I'm not sure breaking Labour up even more is the answer at the moment because it strengthens the Tories more.
So the Powell amendment failing was a good thing?
It might cause some people to change their votes because they realise that it can actually succeed.

I'm sure quite a few MPs probably didn't want to lose rep over a vote that isn't going to pass anyway.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,684
So the Powell amendment failing was a good thing?
If the Powell amendment passed the Benn amendment would be sure to pass.

I think there were Tory backbenchers who didn't like the Powell amendment which is why it wasn't in the Benn amendment.

Still unsure if the Benn amendment will pass though
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,270
Can anyone explain the Benn ammendment, or how it helps whom? I’m getting confused by the jargon.
Gives Parliament itself the authority to set the business of the house - rather than the Government.

Resulting in a series of indicative vote next week on the next course of action.

I think.