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BREXIT |OT| A minister always pays his debts

Dan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,092
My question is does she *have to* present the extension to the EU Council or she can decide to present the request to extend.

Big difference, although I'm guessing the latter.
I would imagine it's the latter - I've a feeling she wants MV3 first..

We've seen this a few times now: The day after a horrible day all the spineless Tory cunts fall back in line and it's back to square one again. Repeat ad infinitum.
She is the weakest PM in my living memory. Just awful.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,714
Just imagine the reaction from the Daily Mail commentariat lol.

I don't think the EU would dare use a 2nd referendum or GE as a condition for an extension because it would be viewed by Brexiters and the media as the EU directly interfering their country's own affairs, and it would only enforce the perception that the UK needs "take back control" from the big, bad EU. And if a 2nd referendum did happen on those terms, the Leave campaign would use it as fuel to drive more conspiracy theories and anti-EU sentiment amongst the public. I do think the UK's hand needs to be forced on a 2nd referendum, but I don't see the EU doing it at all.

I have no clue how the UK plans to get out of this, and it seems like the only winners in this (highly likely) no deal scenario are a few assholes in parliament and the disaster capitalists who will swoop down like vultures as everything goes to shit.
EU can’t tell us what to do, but they can explain they need a clear reason for a long extension, and that the current deal is not a good reason - basically saying ‘Ref or GE or GTFO’ without actually saying it
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,236
Ha, I'm supposed to be flying to Disney Paris at the end of the month. Been thinking that I need to get some currency exchanged sooner rather than later in case there's serious tankage, but I'm also at the edge of my seat waiting to see how things like flights are gonna go too.
I’m flying mid-April so I’m as cautious. Fortunately it is a short trip so don’t need a lot of cash. Unfortunately I am going to Poland which is a largely card-free place so need some physical cash otherwise I would use my fee free credit card.
 

plagiarize

Yearning to breathe free
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,230
Cape Cod, MA
I'm glad that the UK has finally admitted that there isn't time to get everything done, even if the WA is approved next week. It's been clear as day that that shit couldn't just magically power through in a couple of weeks, but they were pretending other wise until today. Had it miraculously passed on Tuesday, I don't think March 29th would have been the date.

As for those 50p pieces, I'm not going to have a chuckle at them until after the EU have approved any extension.

EU can’t tell us what to do, but they can explain they need a clear reason for a long extension, and that the current deal is not a good reason - basically saying ‘Ref or GE or GTFO’ without actually saying it
Right, but since they don't have to give the UK an extension they can say 'we'll only give you an extension if you X, Y or Z'.
 

plagiarize

Yearning to breathe free
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,230
Cape Cod, MA
What a shitshow.

And to think that yesterday felt hopeful.
Honestly, everything this week has gone as I predicted, although I did get nervous for a minute there last night when the tories started whipping people to vote for no deal.

Next week... yeah. Not so easy to predict that one. MV3... logically I have to think it'll fail, but my paranoia is telling me it's going to go through ending chapter one of this process (and it's going to be fun when everyone finally realizes what lays in store should MV3 pass). If it passes, the EU will approve a short extension to get it through and avoid no deal.

If it doesn't... I have no fucking idea what the UK are going to ask for, what the EU are going to ask for in return, and how the UK are going to react that the EU didn't just give them whatever they wanted. It still seems like a very real possibility that no deal happens in fifteen days (even if it's unlikely).
 
Oct 27, 2017
490
What a shitshow.

And to think that yesterday felt hopeful.
It's always the same pattern: One day of hope followed by a day where the Tories swiftly fall back in line again and, to cap it all off, followed by some random Corbyn-fuckery to remind us that the opposition is in a dire state as well.
 

plagiarize

Yearning to breathe free
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,230
Cape Cod, MA
Here's a fun reminder. The large majority of politicians are the same muppets who voted to crash out in a couple of weeks if a deal hadn't been agreed upon by then. I've said this before but I hold *every* politician that voted for Article 50 before the UK had even figured out what the fuck it wanted from this responsible for this giant mess we're in right now, and the future giant messes we're about to be in.

I knew to ask 'what are they going to do about NI?' before the referendum even happened. Apparently no one even bothered looking into that before they voted for Article 50. I knew the EU weren't going to let the UK pick and choose from the four freedoms, even if the UK thought they would... but apparently no one even planned for the possibility that the EU weren't bluffing.

So many in both parties rushed into this headlong. We shouldn't forget their votes. Whatever your position on Brexit may be, voting for article 50 on March 29th 2017 was clearly the wrong vote. It was obvious at the time, and hindsight has only underlined that.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,840
Yeah, 100% right on that.

I hate to say but Corbyn when the Tories are the shit show setting this all off 'Cameron etc', however Corbyn wanted it done immediately which doesn't put him in a good light at all.
 
Oct 26, 2017
662
Greece
On an unrelated note, how is the £ looking at the moment? I’ve been trying to exchange some currency for a while now and trying to pick the best time is an absolute mare right now.
Better of getting some bitcoin, at least bitcoin will eventually balloon again, pound might freefall forever with this government.
 
Oct 26, 2017
662
Greece
I do actually wonder if the only solution is GOVXIT

Meaning that people overthrow the government and the current political system. It's obviously not working. It hasn't worked for a long time. This is just the beginning. Every single one of these people should be sitting in Jail.

Kick out the parties, kick out the political laws and start from scratch. Not let people like the Tories to ever be in Power again. Each elected official only to serve the interest of the nation. Perhaps its time to disband the party system all together.
 
Oct 27, 2017
291
This is so hard to watch. I was under the impression that the referendum results are not legally binding, though the government did promise to do it. Why wouldn’t you just revoke article 50?
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,100
British politics are unbelievable. This applies to both Tory and Labour:



Both parties and leaders only seek power and nothing else.

It's funny to see discussion about how it's OK or not to repeat a vote depending on what is the vote about.

But in fact UK rejected everything so far except for an extension with no reason behind other than "we don't know what to do".
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,289
This is so hard to watch. I was under the impression that the referendum results are not legally binding, though the government did promise to do it. Why wouldn’t you just revoke article 50?
Because, that technicality is irrelevant when the government sends out a leaflet to every household promising that they’d honour the result.

I hate it too, but revoking it is not a sensible way out - unless you want the likes of UKIP polling at 40% within weeks.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,538
So, in strong and stable news David Gauke and Richard Harrington were asked to resign yesterday by the whips, who promptly told them 'no', and so are still in their jobs because May can't sack them.


Meanwhile, just to show the utterly desperate state of Cox and his legal advice, he's now saying that we could revoke the withdrawal agreement under Article 62 of the Vienna Convention, which allows for the revoking of treaties after 'fundamental changes in circumstances'


The only problem is that 'fundamental change in circumstances' has been interpreted very narrowly in international law (a position supported by the UK in the past!), and events such as the fall of the Soviet Union or break up of Czechoslovakia haven't met the bar to be a fundamental change. Arguing this is basically screaming bad faith at the EU.
 
Oct 28, 2017
64
I feel like the EU should include a semi poison pill in the delay agreement of the sort like ‘we extend article 50 until march 2020, but the UK has to legally binding begin implementing the adoption of the euro and join the schengen agreement during this time’ so that either their fully out or fully in afterwards and have a drastic incentive to make their mind up before March 29.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,684
Los Angeles
I feel like the EU should include a semi poison pill in the delay agreement of the sort like ‘we extend article 50 until march 2020, but the UK has to legally binding begin implementing the adoption of the euro and join the schengen agreement during this time’ so that either their fully out or fully in afterwards and have a drastic incentive to make their mind up before March 29.
Sure fire way to ensure hard no deal Brexit. :p
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,362
I feel like the EU should include a semi poison pill in the delay agreement of the sort like ‘we extend article 50 until march 2020, but the UK has to legally binding begin implementing the adoption of the euro and join the schengen agreement during this time’ so that either their fully out or fully in afterwards and have a drastic incentive to make their mind up before March 29.
Those would be really easy things to put in there that would have no effect whatsoever. They both come with a 'show 2 years of stability' clause.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,414
I'm glad there's no HoC debate on this clusterfuck today, for the sake of my mental wellbeing.

Decades into the future this entire debacle will be the subject of countless "how on earth did this happen??" books.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,714
What is Jeremy Vine on? Talking about politics and how eg the Brexit Secretary made a speech commending the extension to the house, then voted against it - i.e politics is broken

He's talking to the usual gammons and he is saying things like 'maybe Brussels played us, kept moving the goalposts'. The goalposts haven't moved. Brussels has been rock solid amongst all this shit. fucking hell
 

Xun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
475
London
What is Jeremy Vine on? Talking about politics and how eg the Brexit Secretary made a speech commending the extension to the house, then voted against it - i.e politics is broken

He's talking to the usual gammons and he is saying things like 'maybe Brussels played us, kept moving the goalposts'. The goalposts haven't moved. Brussels has been rock solid amongst all this shit. fucking hell
It's honestly best to avoid listening to that knobhead.

I can't stand him.
 

plagiarize

Yearning to breathe free
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,230
Cape Cod, MA
What is Jeremy Vine on? Talking about politics and how eg the Brexit Secretary made a speech commending the extension to the house, then voted against it - i.e politics is broken

He's talking to the usual gammons and he is saying things like 'maybe Brussels played us, kept moving the goalposts'. The goalposts haven't moved. Brussels has been rock solid amongst all this shit. fucking hell
I think they've finally realized that the goalposts were where the EU had been saying they were all along. For them that must feel like they moved, even though they didn't.

Or they're an idiot. Could just be that.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,178
New Yawk City!
If Mark Rutte is actually pissed and not just temporarily annoyed, that’s a pretty bad sign - the Dutch have historically been portrayed as more sympathetic to Britain in the EU. It takes only one leader to deny an extension, after all.