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BREXIT |OT| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Little Old Man

Little Old Man

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Oct 25, 2017
1,881
This throwback against Bercow from Tories is so hypocritical it's hilarious:
a)Tories will happily flout procedure and precedence whenever they feel like it
b) the discussion about parliamentary sovereignty is fine unless it's going against the PM or Brexit
c) all this talk of national interest.... Is exactly why he is allowing these amendments to visit be voted upon, because he believes parliamentary input, and a fast response from the government after Tuesday is in the national interest?
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,797
Brian Damage said:
Current rhetoric hasn't changed as much as you'd hope either, judging by tomorrow's front page. Possibly one of their more inflammatory ones in recent times (which is saying a lot).
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Oh wow!

Just seen it.

What fucking hypocrites, considering the protests going on around parliament at present - just gives the idiots another cause to rally behind.

That is inflammatory.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,797
Brian Damage said:
It's ok! They branded it "Comment" in small letters so they can't be held accountable for anything they say.
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I'm guessing this is their angle nowadays - ramp up hateful rhetoric against individuals (it's like someone was foaming at the mouth whilst writing that) - and then decry the horrible atmosphere when it gets a bit too toasty close to them.

I hope this is called out tomorrow.
 
Lagamorph

Lagamorph

Wrong About Chicken
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Oct 26, 2017
7,355
Jesus Christ

DwgUkQaX4AAPHlD
 
SMD

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,341
You forgot that the Daily Mail is completely in touch with the British people and therefore it speaks only the truth.
 
Lagamorph

Lagamorph

Wrong About Chicken
Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,355
I honestly thought with the new editor they might have pulled back from such extreme headlines as this.
I should've known better.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
For some reason I think that is pretty tame for the Mail considering what he did compared to assorted enemies of the people and saboteurs etc.

Dacre would want him crucified outside parliament.
 
Lagamorph

Lagamorph

Wrong About Chicken
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Oct 26, 2017
7,355
Oh yeah it's not quite "enemies of the people" level of bad, but it's still an utter disgrace, and especially irresponsible in light of recent far right attacks on politicians who've shown any kind of anti-Brexit sentiment.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
Lagamorph said:
Oh yeah it's not quite "enemies of the people" level of bad, but it's still an utter disgrace, and especially irresponsible in light of recent far right attacks on politicians who've shown any kind of anti-Brexit sentiment.
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I'm probably just bemused by the popinjay bit as I have never thought of him in that way ever. It's as if they needed to look angry for the readership but their heart wasn't really in it.
 
Uzzy

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,005
Hull, UK
Honestly, it's important to see the 'Parliamentary Sovereignty' shibboleth get so throughly debunked by the reaction to Bercow. They've no interest in an empowered legislature, but rather an interest in further empowering an unchecked executive.
 
Garfield

Garfield

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
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Oct 31, 2018
2,772
There is a lot of love for the speaker in here today, I am not a fan of what he done, as we seem to be heading in a very downhill direction in politics where all conventions are now just ignored. Mays gov should of fallen months ago, and they ignore all these defeats, where before it would of collapsed them...and now it seems the speaker is now dropping the level required of his office

But of course let's not forget a lot of people feel the Speaker started all this by allowing an amendment to the queens speech all those years ago
 
NekoFever

NekoFever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,009
If anything I think this whole process has shown the benefits of a written constitution over a convoluted mess of obscure conventions and precedents. We shouldn't be going into situations like we have been recently, where the genuine answer from constitutional experts to what happens next on matters of law and the process of government is a shrug and "nobody knows".

Things have happened recently that would previously have provoked resignations, if not the collapse of the government, and they're routinely ignored because it wasn't the most stupid thing to have happened in Westminster that day.
 
Tygre

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,090
Chesire, UK
The government are going about getting the vote on May's deal passed in some very odd and half-hearted ways:


It's almost like they want it to fail.
 
Micael

Micael

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,362
Oh so that is why the ferry company doesn't have any ferries, you can't be anti-competitive if you can't even compete

16988335.jpg
 
iapetus

iapetus

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Oct 26, 2017
3,078
I don't like the precedent Bercow has set. I think it's damaging to a system that has been in place for a long time for a good reason. The fact that it brings about potentially good things doesn't make it a good thing in and of itself.

However, it was entirely necessary because of the way the government (and most specifically May) is going about things. They're abusing the rules to stifle debate of the most important act of government in decades, and he's breaking the rules to redress the balance.

Any Brexiteer who complains about this can go fuck themselves with a holly bush. Because it's not about xenophobia, it's not about the economy, apparently it's all about sovereignty and how unfair it is for a Europe that we didn't vote for to ride roughshod over our parliament. That' what they keep telling me, anyway. So they have no right to complain when someone acts to prevent an unelected Prime Minister riding roughshod over our parliament.
 
Psychotext

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,664
iapetus said:
I don't like the precedent Bercow has set. I think it's damaging to a system that has been in place for a long time for a good reason. The fact that it brings about potentially good things doesn't make it a good thing in and of itself.

However, it was entirely necessary because of the way the government (and most specifically May) is going about things. They're abusing the rules to stifle debate of the most important act of government in decades, and he's breaking the rules to redress the balance.

Any Brexiteer who complains about this can go fuck themselves with a holly bush. Because it's not about xenophobia, it's not about the economy, apparently it's all about sovereignty and how unfair it is for a Europe that we didn't vote for to ride roughshod over our parliament. That' what they keep telling me, anyway. So they have no right to complain when someone acts to prevent an unelected Prime Minister riding roughshod over our parliament.
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This is pretty much how I feel on the subject.

You can't flout all of the conventions to your own advantage and then complain when someone does it to your disadvantage.
 
Lagamorph

Lagamorph

Wrong About Chicken
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Oct 26, 2017
7,355
iapetus said:
I don't like the precedent Bercow has set. I think it's damaging to a system that has been in place for a long time for a good reason. The fact that it brings about potentially good things doesn't make it a good thing in and of itself.

However, it was entirely necessary because of the way the government (and most specifically May) is going about things. They're abusing the rules to stifle debate of the most important act of government in decades, and he's breaking the rules to redress the balance.

Any Brexiteer who complains about this can go fuck themselves with a holly bush. Because it's not about xenophobia, it's not about the economy, apparently it's all about sovereignty and how unfair it is for a Europe that we didn't vote for to ride roughshod over our parliament. That' what they keep telling me, anyway. So they have no right to complain when someone acts to prevent an unelected Prime Minister riding roughshod over our parliament.
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Thing is, Bercrow isn't really breaking the rules because as we've learned in the past few months, there aren't any rules. There are traditions and conventions, but those aren't rules in any enforceable sense. And that's the problem.
 
Garfield

Garfield

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Banned
Oct 31, 2018
2,772
iapetus said:
I don't like the precedent Bercow has set. I think it's damaging to a system that has been in place for a long time for a good reason. The fact that it brings about potentially good things doesn't make it a good thing in and of itself.

However, it was entirely necessary because of the way the government (and most specifically May) is going about things. They're abusing the rules to stifle debate of the most important act of government in decades, and he's breaking the rules to redress the balance.

Any Brexiteer who complains about this can go fuck themselves with a holly bush. Because it's not about xenophobia, it's not about the economy, apparently it's all about sovereignty and how unfair it is for a Europe that we didn't vote for to ride roughshod over our parliament. That' what they keep telling me, anyway. So they have no right to complain when someone acts to prevent an unelected Prime Minister riding roughshod over our parliament.
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Listening to a late night show last night, the exclusive consensus was he done it because of May pissing him off before Xmas over pulling the vote and ignoring him about having a vote to pull the vote...

Of course if he did that is damaging as he is suppose to be neutral, it was also agreed as he does not have long left, he may be going out with a bang

Of course I just don't like it as you learn quite quickly that when one thing goes your way, that very thing will be used at some point against you as well.... I would of much preferred it if he had stayed with convention
 
Dougald

Dougald

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Oct 27, 2017
1,937
I think if anything the last two years has really taught me just how much of our government is run on a Gentleman's agreement which is completely unenforceable if someone decides to flout convention
 
Micael

Micael

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Oct 28, 2017
1,362
Honestly I am yet to see the strategy of just staying cordial work when the other side decides to break away, especially when the side breaking things is the one with the power.
 
NekoFever

NekoFever

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Oct 25, 2017
4,009
Dougald said:
I think if anything the last two years has really taught me just how much of our government is run on a Gentleman's agreement which is completely unenforceable if someone decides to flout convention
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The same thing's happening in the States. I think once the dust settles on both sides of the Atlantic a lot of conventions and processes that were taken for granted are going to have to be given teeth.
 
Garfield

Garfield

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Oct 31, 2018
2,772
JLR are laying off 5000 staff here, if anyone wants a classic example how the Orange Turd over the pond can fuck us with his trade wars, The Chinese market is JLR biggest money maker and sales have dropped 50% which is largely attributed to trade tensions....Diesel sales collapsing have also not helped as I believe most of their vehicles are diesel
 
ProstatePuncher

ProstatePuncher

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,800
Garfield said:
JLR are laying off 5000 staff here, if anyone wants a classic example how the Orange Turd over the pond can fuck us with his trade wars, The Chinese market is JLR biggest money maker and sales have dropped 50% which is largely attributed to trade tensions....Diesel sales collapsing have also not helped as I believe most of their vehicles are diesel
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90% of their output is diesel, though they are working to diversify to electric and other biofuels. Won't be much chance of that considering it'll be harder to get parts over the border come end of March. Company looks like its on its last legs with this small act today.
 
Garfield

Garfield

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Oct 31, 2018
2,772
FFS Corbyn just made a statement calling for a GE, he will then renegotiate a better deal, that has lots of unicorns in it

which he says would see the UK in a permanent customs union with the EU and with a close relationship with the single market.
 
Funky Papa

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,694
Garfield said:
JLR are laying off 5000 staff here, if anyone wants a classic example how the Orange Turd over the pond can fuck us with his trade wars, The Chinese market is JLR biggest money maker and sales have dropped 50% which is largely attributed to trade tensions....Diesel sales collapsing have also not helped as I believe most of their vehicles are diesel
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JLR is getting megaboned mostly because of their engines. Diesel heavy manufacturers are in for a lot of pain, which is why PSA, which used to be super bully about diesel, is moving towards electric at rapid pace.

Still, that makes JLR even more fragile in case Brexit goes bad for the British automotive industry (and it will go bad).
 
iapetus

iapetus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,078
Lagamorph said:
Thing is, Bercrow isn't really breaking the rules because as we've learned in the past few months, there aren't any rules. There are traditions and conventions, but those aren't rules in any enforceable sense. And that's the problem.
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Well exactly. Government in general, and democracies in particular, only really work if everyone plays by the rules and acts in good faith. The massive swing in politics across the world at the moment is because one side has decided not to do that any more, to a much greater extent than ever before.
 
Nilaul

Nilaul

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,089
Greece
Whatever, just do the freaking no-deal Brexit; they should just stop dragging out this shitshow, they turned UK into the laughing stock of all of Europe. EU made it very clear they won't get another deal, it's either this one or nothing (and this one is being rejected).

This is like a breakup where the girl just doesn't get it, and prolongs her own agony.
 
Guppeth

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,800
Sheffield, UK
Nilaul said:
Whatever, just do the freaking no-deal Brexit; they should just stop dragging out this shitshow, they turned UK into the laughing stock of all of Europe. EU made it very clear they won't get another deal, it's either this one or nothing (and this one is being rejected).

This is like a breakup where the girl just doesn't get it, and prolongs her own agony.
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Except the one breaking up the relationship is also the one who just doesn't get it.
 
Nilaul

Nilaul

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,089
Greece
Guppeth said:
Except the one breaking up the relationship is also the one who just doesn't get it.
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That is actually what I meant, I just forgot who broke up with who.

So maybe its more like:

A 70 year old guy breaking up with his GF, because he thinks he'll find a 18 year old supermodel elsewhere, but he still wants to keep that old girl as some friend, even though she absolutely hates him now but she only agreed to some sort of compromise because she pities him, but that still wasn't good enough for him.
 
Uzzy

Uzzy

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Oct 25, 2017
27,005
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Leadsom and Bercow are continuing their feud.

Leadsom, a Brexiter, told MPs this morning that the speaker's job was to "uphold the rules that parliament has made for itself, not to arbitrarily change those rules".
In response, Bercow said:
There was nothing arbitrary about the conduct of the chair yesterday.
This speaker is well aware of how to go about the business of chairing the proceedings of the House because he's been doing so for nine and a half years.
I hope colleagues will understand when I say that I require no lessons or lectures from others about how to discharge my obligations to parliament and in support of the rights of backbench parliamentarians.
I have been doing it, I'm continuing to do it and I will go on doing it, no matter how much abuse I get from whatever quarter. It's water off a duck's back as far as I am concerned.​
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