They have really subverted the purpose of those yellow vests, it used to be it was to make it harder to hit someone wearing it at night, now it seems it is to make it easier. /joke (obviously).
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BREXIT |OT| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Thread starter theaface
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They have really subverted the purpose of those yellow vests, it used to be it was to make it harder to hit someone wearing it at night, now it seems it is to make it easier. /joke (obviously).
No, I mean, are there any big demonstrations going on, or are they just sitting in their chair at home yelling at the TV?
I don't think their big, it's the EDF / Tommy Robinson lot out again.
Just the usual yer da protesters. AKA groups of about 5 at a time in public spaces. There were groups of them protesting the Gregg's Vegan Sausage Roll too. This is how current the year is.
Yet the way the media was covering them you would think they matched the 700k that protested against brexit a while back.
Or, more likely, they want to present the opposing sides as equal instead of putting things into perspective.
Also adds to the rhetoric or 'if we don't go through brexit there will be chaos in the streets'.
Not aimed at you dude. Owen Jones being extreme left is the problem. Extremes on both side have created this shitstorm.
Bruce is a legend. James Cleverly is the Tory with the least convincing name.
He was great. He's bang on re: The Spectator. Imagine sticking up for Portillo or Andrew fucking Neil.
No it isn't. This 'far left' false equivalency is getting some traction.
In what fucking world is Owen Jones extreme left?
Not everyone you don't agree with is on the extremes. He's a pretty middle-of-the-road socialist.
Neil Warnock gives his opinion: https://www.skysports.com/football/...er-neil-warnock-launches-into-pro-brexit-rant
"I think once the country knows what they're doing and we get an agreement and move on, I think it will be straightforward [to sign players].
"But I don't know why politicians don't do what the country wanted if I'm honest. They had a referendum and now we see politicians and everyone else trying to put their foot in it.
"Why did we have a referendum in the first bloody place? I can't wait to get out if I'm honest. I think we'll be far better out of the bloody thing. In every aspect. To hell with the rest of the world. Football-wise as well."
"I think once the country knows what they're doing and we get an agreement and move on, I think it will be straightforward [to sign players].
"But I don't know why politicians don't do what the country wanted if I'm honest. They had a referendum and now we see politicians and everyone else trying to put their foot in it.
"Why did we have a referendum in the first bloody place? I can't wait to get out if I'm honest. I think we'll be far better out of the bloody thing. In every aspect. To hell with the rest of the world. Football-wise as well."
what is extreme about owen jones? hes a bit whiny and annoying to listen do but i would not describe him as extreme left!
What a bitter fuck. Sounds like he wants his little island to have only English players. Without international talent, British football would turn pub league in no time.
Wasn't he bitching about Wolves' Portuguese manager not acting like a proper civilized Englishman last season in the Championship? Hmm.
Of course Colin is a Brexiter. Bet Pulis and Allardyce are too.
Those headlines are disgusting.
No wonder the far right are getting more vocal when the papers are lying and using language as if the Tories are being overtaken by law breaking etc.
No wonder the far right are getting more vocal when the papers are lying and using language as if the Tories are being overtaken by law breaking etc.
The problem with Jones is that he's not really 'one of them', in the sense that he is far more of a social democrat than he is a revolutionary Marxist, and as such they don't fully trust him. He did his dues doing campaign work for McDonnell but McDonnell is much more pragmatic and business like than Corbyn and most of the genuinely extreme people floating around the Labour party these days.
Jones is also not stupid and knows exactly how bad Corbyn is for the party. He has written as much. But now that Corbyn is de facto in control of the party with zero opposition, Jones is out in the cold, and for the last 2 years he's been bending over backwards, aping positions he does not hold, acting less as a correspondent and more as a PR officer for a leadership office that routinely takes the piss out of him. Bar one or two differences Owen Jones holds more or less the exact same politics as I do, which they'll hold against him forever. It's like he's caught up between the dream of what could happen but won't (a more socialist, movement based politics in the UK) and what is actually happening (entrenched divisions, the breakup of the labour coalition and the seeming permanency of the Tories).
He is also conscious of the absolute necessity of winning and being in government, more so than most of the Corbyn media.
He's defended some awful things from our side and as such it's hard to drum up sympathy for him, except in cases like this where it's clearly unwarranted and disgusting. The homophobia is laughable when you consider who the leading brexiters actually are. It is absolutely worth pointing out that Jones is on the receiving end of the sort of abuse he's been handwaving away when it's been directed at Luciana Berger and Margaret Hodge. He's also defended some atrocious stuff from the fake news Corbyn media outlets like Skwawkbox and Bastani.
MPs get far more shit than any of you realise. I saw some of the correspondence that led to Pat Glass stepping down, utterly vile from both sides of the divide, and she was as inoffensive a safe-seat, working class Labour MP as you're likely to get. Fuck this 'giving it to the elites' nonsense, it's just cover for violence.
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So this is interesting a political guy on the radio just said there are those in GOV hope the speaker chooses Hilary Benn amendment, (no deal and no to Mays deal)
That way May get to lose but only by a small defeat, the main vote then does not happen, May can then go back to Brussels, tinker with the WA, go back and say to Brexiteers, this is it now, your no deal is dead, you need to back this deal
That way May get to lose but only by a small defeat, the main vote then does not happen, May can then go back to Brussels, tinker with the WA, go back and say to Brexiteers, this is it now, your no deal is dead, you need to back this deal
He supported him in both leadership campaigns, but called for him to step down before the general election in 2017 when things were looking dire.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/01/corbyn-staying-not-good-enough
Charectirising him as some unwavering Corbyn fanboy is pretty silly.
Owen was stanning HARD for Podemos in Spain when they were looking like the hottest sensation among the European nu left, going as far as to campaign with them.
Alas, half of Podemos is nuttier than squirrel shit and the party itself is very much Corbyn-aligned. Their most prominent leaders acted as Venezuelan advisors/propagandists back during the Chavez era and well into Maduro's.
He's a sad example of an otherwise smart person believing any fashionable leftist that promises to end austerity and engage with the youth. He'd feel right at home with the local izquierda cuqui, the cutie left for you.
I'll just say that he's not a good judge of character, to put it kindly.
Alas, half of Podemos is nuttier than squirrel shit and the party itself is very much Corbyn-aligned. Their most prominent leaders acted as Venezuelan advisors/propagandists back during the Chavez era and well into Maduro's.
He's a sad example of an otherwise smart person believing any fashionable leftist that promises to end austerity and engage with the youth. He'd feel right at home with the local izquierda cuqui, the cutie left for you.
I'll just say that he's not a good judge of character, to put it kindly.
That's what I meant. It's left or die with him. He supports anyone who seems fashionable even if it's not backed up with evidence. I'm happy to be proven wrong. Also fuck the Tories :)
Ending austerity is a pretty reasonable stance in and of itself. If the world followed social democratic principles then the world would be a better place. Rajoy and PP to the best of my knowledge were pieces of shit. Now, I dislike Corbyn because of his baggage and Brexit stance and I'm not of the far left at all but there are legitimate social issues he identifies. I don't recall homelessness for example ever being this bad under New Labour for example. I have seen literal tiny tent settlements in city streets.
That's not entirely wrong. The ECHR is created in the Context of the Council of Europe which contains non-EU members but forms part of the pre-EU treaties that form part of the history of the EU.
A wealthy 70-year-old famous for being stuck in his regressive, outdated ways is pro-Brexit? Colour me shocked.
So on Tuesday May's deal is going down one way or another. Benn has a pro-remain amendment that'll wreck it and will likely pass, but with a small majority, probably single figures. If that doesn't pass for whatever reason then the motion itself will be voted down by triple figures.
May then has three working days to return with plan B, meaning next Monday. Will Corbyn take the opportunity to launch the VoNC then? It'll still likely fail at that moment.
May then has three working days to return with plan B, meaning next Monday. Will Corbyn take the opportunity to launch the VoNC then? It'll still likely fail at that moment.
The VoNC will pass if either:
1- The DUP can't get rid of the backstop
2- The Remainer Tories are facing No Deal
One of these will definitely happen because the EU won't amend the withdrawal agreement. I'm willing to bet that May has been begging for an extension this whole time and is trying to drag things out as long as possible to make it a reality. However, there's practically no chance of an extension for her because as loads have said, it's not in the EU's interests so she can probably only get an extension if there's a second referendum or a general election.
May's days are numbered and she's just trying to make her premiership last one extra day than it has to at this point.
Quoting this as a reminder. Seems the conversation about this on the last page somehow ended up being ultimately about Owen Jones rather than the actual polling.
I don't really know what to make of it. Deep down I feel like it reflects what I already know; Labour supporting People's Vote/a second referendum will probably not be the electoral slam dunk others think it will. There's a huge amount of baggage attached to being the ones to fire that starting pistol, and the Tories, soft Tories, and centrists who are currently agitating Labour to do it will likely never support them in a GE. I would literally not put it past the current Conservative party to later use it as a stick to beat Labour with, despite potentially saving them and the country from total fucking meltdown.
I hope Labour do finally back the People's Vote, but seeing how we're firmly fixed in the worst timeline, I could see it blowing up in their faces, or worse - people voting for Brexit twice. I feel like every radio phone-in I listen to just highlights how pig ignorant the British electorate still are about the European Union and the implications of leaving it.
Just to demonstrate how retroactive this bullshit is:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-46836957
People over ninety years old asked to prove their right to stay in the country, lest they be deported to a 'home' they haven't known for over half a century.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-46836957
People over ninety years old asked to prove their right to stay in the country, lest they be deported to a 'home' they haven't known for over half a century.
Labour doesn't have a path to power that doesn't involve tactical voting.
If Labour goes into a GE with a pro-Brexit policy they will bleed votes, if they go into a GE with an anti-Brexit policy they will bleed votes. If they go in with a "Brexit? Let's talk about austerity' plan, they run into being attacked from both sides.
So the most intelligent path would be to take an Anti-Brexit stance and harvest the votes when brexit plunges the country into hell and the tories implode. Otherwise Labour will also implode
I think Labour is wedded to its current policy far too much to ever switch.
They have to hope they get momentum and deificiation like last time. The fundamental thrust of their argument is you can Brexit AND be a socialist force engaged in crushing the Tory establishment and singing the Red Flag. The vast majority of the country will either be voting for a nailed-on guarantee victor (half of all seats) and the other half will usually only have a vote between two Brexit parties. Hence, campaign on populism rather than policy and hope to not have to go cap-in-hand to Sturgeon and Cable.
It is a reasonable policy if it wasn't for the fact that they will lose every seat in Scotland over it.
On a technicality he could be seen as right. Morally? No. Because he knows that many in his country see Brexit as a way out of the ECHR as well. Would you want to stand on that side of the argument from a human perspective?
Campaign on a plan for a parliamentary Brexit plan that is led by Labour government so all parties at least have a say and offer a second ref at the end.
That would be the best path imo as it gives pretty much everyone what they want without committing yourself to a single outcome.
Really the only people who won't like that at the no deal types but honestly fuck them, who cares what they think.
I reckon May will be coming out with amendments and promises over Monday and Tuesday to try and win as much support as she can from wherever she can find it. I'm also wary that when it comes to the crunch, it might work.
Unlikely but she's gotta be pulling out all the stops over the next couple days, she won't just wait for death.
Unlikely but she's gotta be pulling out all the stops over the next couple days, she won't just wait for death.
The numbers are so dramatically not in her favour that I can't even imagine what she realistically could do that would win the vote.
Nothing she does will change the deal and nothing will change the Irish border. She lost months ago she just won't admit it.
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