The idea that the Tories are immune to harm is completely illogical. I know why things feel so hopeless right now, but institutions collapse, more so when people running them think they can't.
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BREXIT |OT| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Thread starter theaface
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They were out of power from 1996 to 2015 after Black Wednesday and sleeze under Major. They can be damaged.
2010*
Coalition government was a Tory government. Massive cuts across the board that killed thousands and made this country a much worse place to live if you're not rich? Tory government.
I honestly think standards have dropped, they are basically the default government of this country with Blair being a massive exception.
The Lib Dems aren't. Vince Cable has a better (still bad) approval rating than Corbyn but the Lib Dems are still polling at sub 10% in all polls.
I suppose it's the benefit of being non existent, the only thing I can remember about Cable as leader is not showing up for a vote.
Read it wrong... guessing a thing that is dead can't be annoying to most people.
Tim didn't end up helping much in the end either with his repressed and conflicted homophobia.
This is exactly it, Vince doesn't have to deal with the biggest amount of negative coverage any leader of a party has probably ever had to deal with like corbyn.
Some of it is deserved, most of it isn't but it takes its tolls on the polls. That's why during the election Labour shot up in the polls because papers couldn't do this due to equal coverage laws.
Would Labour benefit from an equal amount of growth if another election comes? Probably not but I'm willing to bet Labour would make more gains then where they are now which is basically level pegging with the tories.
Of course that depends on brexit and what happens and what labour's current position would be as that could have a serious negative effect but even then, compared to the tories they have much less shit on their hands and a better vision and message for a campaign the the tories could ever hope for.
Problem is, that clearly doesn't happen. Whether it's the fact that people tend to move towards the right economically as they get older, or that society moves left of their views they have when they are about 25, it doesn't matter. Waiting for old age and death hasn't worked in the past.
How the fuck can anyone be looking at this and saying "Seems pretty good, no deal all the way for me!".
I'm not sure I believe that either. They always retain the elderly vote no matter what, and depending on the fallout from this could it turn away a lot of people from voting(Corbyn is busy destroying his own support). Tories just get in and stay there by default especially in our faux democracy, two party system.
I'd actually forgotten Cable was LD leader until I saw that survey, haven't really been paying attention.
I suspect, barring other events, that demographically the Tories are going to take a pounding when enough boomers die off. The "moving right economically" thing only really works if the people getting older become better paid, more financially secure, and become homeowners i.e. have assets they want to protect. The Tories have shafted the young since 2010, with Brexit being the delightful cherry on top of what is already a shitcake with diarrhoea icing that I don't see it happening the same way as it might have done in the past because unless you have the bank of mum and dad to rely on, people under the age of 40 have no opportunity to get on the housing ladder and have been utterly dicked over by anaemic wage growth. Moreover, with climate change becoming an increasingly pressing and important issue to the young, being a right-wing "frack away and damn the torpedoes" party isn't going to do them any favours either.
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It could be either these two things: The man is smart and is silently amassing potential voters for the next general election or he's a wet fish and no one really cares about the LD party to look into what they're doing.
I think that would only be the case if there wasn't high paid jobs anymore. Housing market is tough but people are still clawing their way onto it, may take a lot longer but still attainable with two solid wages. Considering the amount of people who vote, got mine attitude still in full swing, hatred etc, Tories staying in power seems fairly likely, depressing as that is. What age are boomers, 60-80? You could probably roll people who are 50+ into that sort of doing alright bracket. I wouldn't put it past this country to vote in even worse people if Brexit goes really badly.
I mean sure, it's not like there's nobody buying houses anymore, but without family help it's still a lot harder, taking people a lot longer and a stable dual income relationship. That kind of thing doesn't exactly inspire loyalty, and even the centrists/centre right people I know in 30-45 age group think the Tories are fucking garbage these days. They're not going to vote Corbyn (though some have said they would if he was better on Brexit, 5 years of him being better than forever Brexit), but they're not going to vote Tory either.
I don't disagree that this country might vote in even worse people before the under 40s become the dominant group, but if that happens it's going to be a last fuck you from the boomers and gammons, not the people who have come of age or become politically aware underneath this shitshow of a Tory government.
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Yeah people have been saying that for decades. People become more conservative with age; it may even happen to some ERA members!
As mentioned by others above, that tends to happen because people earn more as they get older, buy houses, have kids and want to save as much as possible so vote against higher taxes etc.
When people aren't earning more, can't buy houses, having less kids etc the chances they follow tradition and vote Conservative drops a lot.
Add in climate change and their days are eventually numbered. Unless of course people decide to go full authoritarian because of the upcoming global disaster incoming.
I think that what constitutes the Labour and Conservative parties in 5 years time will be fairly different to today largely due to the social forces you describe.
I've never looked into the statistics, but I have seen it said many times that the turning Conservative as you age thing isn't as clear cut as claimed.
The current crop of older voters are the generation that sold everything off, killed unions etc, but again I've never really looked into it to say one way or the other.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ave-another-say-by-end-of-month-says-minister
So what's Corbyn's next move?
Considering his so hot on worker and environment rights being aligned with the EU as well as wanting a custom union surely the only option he has now is to back another referendum.
He doesn't want a no deal brexit and can't back any Tory deal without any of the above so surely he has to just bite the bullet and get behind another referendum.
So what's Corbyn's next move?
Considering his so hot on worker and environment rights being aligned with the EU as well as wanting a custom union surely the only option he has now is to back another referendum.
He doesn't want a no deal brexit and can't back any Tory deal without any of the above so surely he has to just bite the bullet and get behind another referendum.
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Yeah I agree trying to get another 2nd ref amendment through is unlikely
Wha other choice does he have? He should be saying his tried to work with May but due to her position he has no choice but to call for another referendum.
Maybe but him backing something which delivers nothing what Labour want from a deal looks ridiculous now.
being in the EU is pretty close to what Labour's plan is as it was basically a soft brexit (customs union etc). Would definitely go down well with the members anyway.
(read though the tweets on this, lots of quotes from leave MPs)
I mean, maybe?
doesn't matter if it gets the support because of a second ref though
I'm just saying what else is there? May won't change. The EU won't change. The backstop won't change. This is it.
This isn't really true. Data shows (in the US at least) that really only the baby boomers ever did this right shift, and they're the ones pushing the narrative that this was a natural shift instead of a deliberate one.
Most working age people didn't vote Conservative so this argument isn't entirely accurate. Conservatives haven't done a great job making a prosperous country that would make people think of shifting economically right. Globally more and more people are seeing that neoliberalism isn't working.
Trying to remember the last time a conspiracy theorist was right about anything. Also his "fracture theory" image makes no sense, the guy's a pot
I'm not into conspiracy theories either but please remember we've had a Russian chemical attack on our soil with hardly any retaliation and as the investigation in the US shows, along with the sudden push of far right groups by online bots, Russia is winning without firing a single shot.
Are they winning though? They economy is still absolute dog shit despite them having an absurd amount of natural resources and very rich neighbors that need them, and everyone is on to them right now which will make it harder to do what ever they want to do in the future, they are no more winning anything as I would be if I punched an MMA fighter while he was waiting on a line.
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