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BREXIT |OT2.0| No government is better than a bojo government

Beefy

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,264
Where did I say "racism isn't a problem"? That much is pretty obvious. But painting every single person who voted to leave the EU as a racist, who only voted that way because of racism is a massive simplification that plays right into the sort of Us vs Them mentality people like Farage feed on.
Like I said either racist or fine with the racism Leave spewed. Both have the same effect on poc so both should be treated the same. You can't be fine with the racism spewed by Farage etc then be like "nah am not racist".
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,054
User Banned (1 Week): Inflammatory False Equivalence Surrounding Racism
I don't think anyone is defending racism, just pointing out that all demographics voted leave, remain, it's not clear cut poor people voting leave, comfortable, well off people voting remain, white, black, asian picking remain or leave. Immigration fears, racism was a huge part, no doubt about it and the leave campaigns, media played it like a fiddle and the resulting leave win only encouraged racists which is a terrible outcome but one that probably needed to show it's head that it's here and will always be unfortuately, needs called out and fought against. I would also say it's not always white on black or asian hate, it does happen the other way, the fear of the other, EU immigration crossed demographics too.

As for other reasons, sure people just don't like EU, believe it's a waste of money, believe all the lies over the years or maybe legitimently think we can go alone even if they are wrong or right, these people may be few and far between and it's just cover for fear of immigration, society changing, quite possible but let's not forget 70% voted in the election, 33 million people and 17 million voted leave in a country of 70 million. Hate is everywhere but I'm trying to be positive and hope we turn a corner and people see the good path now and the obvious lies.
 
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Beefy

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,264
I don't think anyone is defending racism, just pointing out that all demographics voted leave, remain, it's not clear cut poor people voting leave, comfortable, well off people voting remain, white, black, asian picking remain or leave. Immigration fears, racism was a huge part, no doubt about it and the leave campaigns, media played it like a fiddle and the resulting leave win only encouraged racists which is a terrible outcome but one that probably needed to show it's head that it's here and will always be unfortuately, needs called out and fought against. I would also say it's not always white on black or asian hate, it does happen the other way, the fear of the other, EU immigration crossed demographics too.
Leave campaign was racist and xenophobic if you voted for it you are part of the problem. There are many different levels of racism/xenophobia not just the dudes that spew shit. To vote leave you at the very least were ok with ignoring the racism/xenophobia so that very clearly makes you part for the problem.

People need to stop trying to downplay what people that voted leave voted for.
 

phonicjoy

Member
Jun 19, 2018
2,240
User banned (1 week): dismissive commentary around race
Leave campaign was racist and xenophobic if you voted for it you are part of the problem. There are many different levels of racism/xenophobia not just the dudes that spew shit. To vote leave you at the very least were ok with ignoring the racism/xenophobia so that very clearly makes you part for the problem.
So how are you changing hearts and minds here.
 

Old_King_Coal

Member
Nov 1, 2017
225
Worth bearing in mind that Beefy’s posts aren’t exactly going to be pasted all over the tabloids. No need to mince words here in this space.
 

phonicjoy

Member
Jun 19, 2018
2,240
Not my job to, I am not going to change the mind of bigots. I have been told to go home and called nigger enough times already.

Asking a minority to change "hearts and minds" isn't a good look
So how would I know you're a minority? You honestly believe 50% of the UK are pure bigots? Even that is a scale.
 

Euler.L.

Alt account
Banned
Mar 29, 2019
906
People going on about being poor is why people voted leave... why didn't many poc vote leave then? Seeing as the percentage (compared to the number of black people) of black people that are poor is way higher than white people. It is pretty obvious really, you got mugged of by racist propaganda and Farage. Tories are the problem not EU.
Many minorities voted leave.
 

Old_King_Coal

Member
Nov 1, 2017
225
So how would I know you're a minority? You honestly believe 50% of the UK are pure bigots? Even that is a scale.
He said that people who didn’t consider the leave campaigns racism as a red line were still culpable for their vote, not that they are pure bigots to the last person.

Edit: levels of racism yeah. Not everyone is throwing slurs around.
 

Beefy

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,264
So how would I know you're a minority? You honestly believe 50% of the UK are pure bigots? Even that is a scale.
Said it in my posts all up this page. 50%? Easily, like I said not every racist is going be spewing shit. There are levels of racism, but at the end of the day racism is racism.
 

Beefy

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,264
Many minorities voted leave.
"Many" what percentage? Do you even know?

Let me show you....

"As for demographics, the proportion of males is 45.4% of all individuals in the sample, while just about three out of ten respondents are aged 60 or above. People with no qualification account for about 8% of the sample. Roughly 90% of respondents are born in the UK. Asians are the largest ethnic minority amounting to 5.8% of the sample, followed by blacks (2.5%).2 Over half of respondents are married or in a civil"

 
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Euler.L.

Alt account
Banned
Mar 29, 2019
906
User Banned (1 Month): Dismissive Commentary Surrounding Racism Over Multiple Posts; Linking to Bigoted Sources; Prior Bans for Inflammatory and Dismissive Behavior
"Many" what percentage? Do you even know?
Just wanted to add this link
 

IpKaiFung

Member
Oct 27, 2017
305
Wales
I live in Wales and most of the time when I can pin them down on their leave vote it comes down to immigration.

I have to go through the exhausting process of debunking their flimsy reasons regarding bendy bananas, banning the coal mines, dissolving the army or some such horseshit.
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,617
Just wanted to add this link
Spiked Online is a rancid festering piece of shit excuse for a website.
 

newline

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
475
London, United Kingdom
Leave campaign was racist and xenophobic if you voted for it you are part of the problem. There are many different levels of racism/xenophobia not just the dudes that spew shit. To vote leave you at the very least were ok with ignoring the racism/xenophobia so that very clearly makes you part for the problem.
You didn't have to ignore racism to vote for leave because Britain leaving the European union has nothing to do with race. Yes, Nigel Farage attempted to hijack the leave campaign but that's exactly what it was, a successful hijacking.

If a massive Scottish xenophobe was to hijack the next Scottish indyref, would you also write off every pro independence Scottish voter as racist?
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,059
Many minorities voted leave.
Stats?

It's no hidden fact, that four of the things that the Brexit manifesto was founded upon were:

1. £350 million kept in the UK
2. Turkey joining the EU
3. Control of immigration
4. Brussels will no longer make our laws

Each and every one of those can be taken to be racist or xenophobic and/or a form of right-wing nationalism imo. Imo, it's very likely that even those people that didn't believe/perceive themselves to be racist, were influenced by a certain mindset. I mean even that programme Brexit an Uncivil War, showed that part of Cumming's attack was built on Turkey joining the EU. I'd be hard pressed to believe that there wasn't some form of racism involved, whether conscious or subconscious.

I can tell you that in parts of Birmingham, there was an explicit racist agenda, against the Polish; many asian people were told that Brexit would stop Polish people taking their jobs.

Also, is it just concidence, that racism and racist attacks have risen since Brexit?
 

Beefy

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,264
You didn't have to ignore racism to vote for leave because Britain leaving the European union has nothing to do with race. Yes, Nigel Farage attempted to hijack the leave campaign but that's exactly what it was, a successful hijacking.

If a massive Scottish xenophobe was to hijack the next Scottish indyref, would you also write off every pro independence Scottish voter as racist?
Stop trying to justify people not caring enough about racism. If you vote for a racist campaign you are part of the problem.
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,054
Leave campaign was racist and xenophobic if you voted for it you are part of the problem. There are many different levels of racism/xenophobia not just the dudes that spew shit. To vote leave you at the very least were ok with ignoring the racism/xenophobia so that very clearly makes you part for the problem.

People need to stop trying to downplay what people that voted leave voted for.
I get what your saying, all racist Brexit voters likely voted leave but even so, perhaps a bit unfair to people who just don't like the EU, yes they handwaved the hate leave were spewing and supported a view to leave the EU many horrible groups also supported but it's still very possible they did for non racist reasons, maybe not loads of people but who knows. You can't distill it to a purity test though, it was a vote to leave the EU, not a vote for a party that has racist ideals. Yeah, I know the Tory party are scum and would probably fit that to a degree but I think most parties honestly fall short.
 

Beefy

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,264
I get what your saying, all racist Brexit voters likely voted leave but even so, perhaps a bit unfair to people who just don't like the EU, yes they handwaved the hate leave were spewing and supported a view to leave the EU many horrible groups also supported but it's still very possible they did for non racist reasons, maybe not loads of people but who knows. You can't distill it to a purity test though, it was a vote to leave the EU, not a vote for a party that has racist ideals. Yeah, I know the Tory party are scum and would probably fit that to a degree but I think most parties honestly fall short.
Nah, if you are fine with voting with racist campaigns you are part of the problem.

It doesn't make you a outright bigot. It does however make you at the very least fine with racism or not give a shit. Both still hurt minorities just as much
 

Euler.L.

Alt account
Banned
Mar 29, 2019
906
Stats?

It's no hidden fact, that four of the things that the Brexit manifesto was founded upon were:

1. £350 million kept in the UK
2. Turkey joining the EU
3. Control of immigration
4. Brussels will no longer make our laws

Each and every one of those can be taken to be racist or xenophobic and/or a form of right-wing nationalism imo. Imo, it's very likely that even those people that didn't believe/perceive themselves to be racist, were influenced by a certain mindset. I mean even that programme Brexit an Uncivil War, showed that part of Cumming's attack was built on Turkey joining the EU. I'd be hard pressed to believe that there wasn't some form of racism involved, whether conscious or subconscious.

I can tell you that in parts of Birmingham, there was an explicit racist agenda, against the Polish; many asian people were told that Brexit would stop Polish people taking their jobs.

Also, is it just concidence, that racism and racist attacks have risen since Brexit?
Groups of people can vote for the same despite having different motives.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,059
You didn't have to ignore racism to vote for leave because Britain leaving the European union has nothing to do with race. Yes, Nigel Farage attempted to hijack the leave campaign but that's exactly what it was, a successful hijacking.

If a massive Scottish xenophobe was to hijack the next Scottish indyref, would you also write off every pro independence Scottish voter as racist?
But he didn't manage to; Cummings was the mastermind, and it was basically his manifesto.
 

Beefy

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,264
All I see in this thread is people handwaving racism. You can't expect to vote for a campaign which racism was 100% a part and be like "nah am not part of the problem" when clearly you are.
 

Euler.L.

Alt account
Banned
Mar 29, 2019
906

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,059
Here's one bit from your link:

"The belief that Britain maintains its ‘special relationship’ with its former colonies extends beyond just the bureaucratic process, however. Equally important to these interviewees is the historical and cultural Anglo-Indian connections from the legacy of empire, including the English language. For many of these interviewees, it is the idea of cultural belonging stemmed from a shared history. The EU, on the other hand, is framed as a political project, and EU migrants are viewed as not part of the fabric of Britishness. " i.e., they don't belong here.
 

offshore

Member
Oct 27, 2017
368
UK
jelly hit the nail on the head by saying racism has always been in the UK and the vote to leave has only just encouraged it. It's always puzzled me when UK politicians would say things like the UK is a tolerant country, etc. It's like... do you even understand the UK at all? The racist undercurrent in the UK has always been there; some of it is really vicious and I think some of it is people not even realising what they're saying is racist or xenophobic.

Though I don't think you can claim all leave voters are racist: some people just voted to leave because they see the EU as some kind of organisation designed to scam us out of our money and who are "making our laws".
 

Beefy

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,264
It's so strange to be told by a fellow minority that I'm blaming them. I wasn't having a discussion with you based on your race for starters but it seems to be something you can always bring the conversation back to.
You blamed me it is simple, you posted it. It doesn't matter if you are another minority you still blamed me.

Blame the racism in this country for how it is, not me.
 

Euler.L.

Alt account
Banned
Mar 29, 2019
906
Here's one bit from your link:

"The belief that Britain maintains its ‘special relationship’ with its former colonies extends beyond just the bureaucratic process, however. Equally important to these interviewees is the historical and cultural Anglo-Indian connections from the legacy of empire, including the English language. For many of these interviewees, it is the idea of cultural belonging stemmed from a shared history. The EU, on the other hand, is framed as a political project, and EU migrants are viewed as not part of the fabric of Britishness. " i.e., they don't belong here.
Yes, and there are two different motives. We have the classic white racism which does't want any form of immigration and we have the more strategic approach, whoch means no EU immigrants will lead to more non-EU/Commonwealth immigration.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,059
Though I don't think you can claim all leave voters are racist: some people just voted to leave because they see the EU as some kind of organisation designed to scam us out of our money and who are "making our laws".
But, to take this in the other direction, wouldn't it be fair to say that a majority of them think it's ok to make laws for Scotland, Ireland and Wales?
 

newline

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
475
London, United Kingdom
User Banned (Duration Pending): dismissive commentary surrounding racism over multiple posts and inflammatory accusation
You blamed me it is simple, you posted it. It doesn't matter if you are another minority you still blamed me.
We seem to be very different with our view of race. You realise you can be a shitty minority right? Blaming your style of opinion has nothing to do with your race. It's something that anyone can have.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,059
Yes, and there are two different motives. We have the classic white racism which does't want any form of immigration and we have the more strategic approach, whoch means no EU immigrants will lead to more non-EU/Commonwealth immigration.
But I never said that it was only the white people that voted for Leave, that have some form of racist ideology. I also said that some Leavers could habour subconscious racism.