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BREXIT |OT2.0| A parade of endless victories for Boris Johnson
- Thread starter Uzzy
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Not linking The Sun... but no way would Boris agree to this
This would cause a lot more than 21 rebellions if they even seriously considered this.
Not linking The Sun... but no way would Boris agree to this
Tories might be desperate enough to do it. You saw it in the by-elections, where the Brexit and Tory party vote split the leave vote allowing Labour or LibDems to get in. The Tories will also loose all their seats in Scotland and other remain areas probably. They have to make up those seats in the north but the Tory brand is still toxic in parts of the north and so they will have less chance of winning there than the Brexit Party. The Tories aren't going to win a majority so going into coalition or supply and confidence with the BP may be inevitable.
The obvious downside is it pushes the moderate Tory voter away to the LibDems.
Hopefully if this pact does happen, the LibDems and Labour put aside the BS and stand down in certain seats to maximise the chance of the other party winning.
Not linking The Sun... but no way would Boris agree to this
The Tories standing down in that many seats would be quite humiliating for them. So that'll never happen.
Johnson has already been courting the BP voters and had been quoted as wanting to smash Farage, so can't see him giving up a load of seats like that.
Interesting ones will be seats where tories have lost the whip. If they stand again then the tory vote will be split three ways.
Interesting ones will be seats where tories have lost the whip. If they stand again then the tory vote will be split three ways.
In a sane, congruent world, this wouldn't make any sense and wouldn't be entertained by Tory leadership, but I can't 100% rule it out when you have galaxy brain geniuses like Cummings in charge.
Umm so Boris playing both sides shock...
Will this actually be a soft Brexit or will it be a repackaged WA - which was a hard-line route and certainly wasn't a compromise in any meaningful way.
i truly hope he's poisoned the well too much already.
Umm so Boris playing both sides shock...
Pathetic if they come back now.
Umm so Boris playing both sides shock...
He is breathtakingly bad at managing his party.
I just read a bit about the ammunition dumps around the area where the famed bridge to Ireland should be built.
There's an UNGODLY amount of ancient ordnance there. Radioactive waste too, because why not.
Apparently the last time the idea was floated around engineers flipped out so hard it was shelved right away.
There's an UNGODLY amount of ancient ordnance there. Radioactive waste too, because why not.
Apparently the last time the idea was floated around engineers flipped out so hard it was shelved right away.
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This and the return of Duty Free purchases are my favourite bits of Borism.
Yeah, especially in the last year it feels like he's just flinging shit around the room with no regard for consequences. Incredibly disingenuous.
ERG won't vote for it, he loses MV4.
VoNC next day, he loses that.
Election held with Farage screaming about Boris betraying the leave vote, Boris loses that. Corbyn PM, second referendum held.
I mean the weather isn't the main reason the idea is batshit, nor is the fuckton of unexploded ordinance I imagine if you flung enough money at it you could over come it, the biggest unavoidable problem is where the bridge connects to Scotland. Basically, on the Mull of Kintyre hours away from anywhere. You'd always be quicker with the Ferry which only takes 2hrs and deposits you an hour from Glasgow or 2 hrs from Carlisle. If we use Google maps to route between the lighthouse on the Mull of Kintrye to Glasgow the route is 3hr 53 mins and 5hrs 27 mins from Carlisle. To make it appreciably shorter you'd need to build two other bridges between Tarbet and Portavide and then between Dunoon and Cloch as well as upgrading all the inlinking roads (which are single track in some parts) or if you want to go the shortest feasible route 5 bridges between Northern Ireland and the Mull of Kintyre, Tarbert-Portavide, then Karnes and Bute, Bute to Knockdow and then Dunoon to Cloch. Other than symbolism, it has no appreciable practical value because the ferry is basically quicker.
We'll, they can get one bottle of spirits and 200 fags at prices that are more expensive than a Calais off-licence, when the post-Brexit exchange rate and airport/ferry shop price-gouging is factored in.
No deal kills the "booze cruise".
He's an idiot. He knows that even if by some miracle you made Corbyn a temp PM there wouldn't be enough support for a second referendum in this parliament so why even bring it up? You need an election first and Labour finally finally agree to that position and oh there's Tom, going off message, shit stirring once again a day after the unions back the plan. Fucking sick of him.
It's not like I don't get his position, the GE could just leave us into a similar spot as we are now. A ref then an election would make the policies of the manifestos much clearer vs the brexit noise.
Buuuut, Swinson and Hammond et al aren't going to let Corbyn lead after a VoNC, plus there may be blowback for not having an election that would kill them when it's actually called. Besides, the SNP are almost guaranteed to cut down the number of Tory seats so there should at least be some movement in the right direction.
I don't really think Watson should have said it, but he's technically spot on. A second referendum is a far more sensible way to decide Brexit than a General Election. It is very likely unachievable before a general election however, so pointing it out is completely pointless. If the Conservatives win a majority and we end up leaving with no deal, it is a blatantly undemocratic outcome. Alas, that is the reality we face.
Not only pointless but completely counter productive since all it does is undermine labour at a time when they are actually making headway towards getting enough support to get into a position to implement the only feasible chance we have of stopping brexit.
The problem with Watson is usually not the substance of the statements he makes. It's the fact that over the last year in particular, he has shown a pattern of behaviour that demonstrates he is operating in bad faith.
To use our internet vocabulary, he's a troll.
To use our internet vocabulary, he's a troll.
btw I still think Farage is Lucy with the football to Johnson's Charlie Brown. He'll dangle a pact, pushing Boris further and further to his position but keep pulling it out of reach because he doesn't want his hands on the impact of Brexit. He wants it to be a shining ideal to use as a dividing point in society, and being able to pin the botched delivery on the Tories.
Watson's ability to take any momentum (excuse the pun) Labour have and grind it into the dust is quite a thing.
You can set your watch by it, there's literally no need for him to make this intervention publicly when all opposition parties are collaborating, he knows Labour can't force a second referendum without every member of that coalition agreeing, which is impossible. You can only conclude that his reason for intervening is that he see's other people in the labour party as opponents.
You can set your watch by it, there's literally no need for him to make this intervention publicly when all opposition parties are collaborating, he knows Labour can't force a second referendum without every member of that coalition agreeing, which is impossible. You can only conclude that his reason for intervening is that he see's other people in the labour party as opponents.
Like Watson, I would prefer a referendum to a GE because I think a referendum first is a more winnable prospect. Unlike Watson, I understand that a referendum before a GE just isn't going to happen. What the fuck is he playing at? Labour as an entity and the rest of the opposition finally working together and mostly on the same page and he has to reignite the divisions over things which aren't going to happen?
We're about to have an election. There is literally no benefit to doing this now unless you hate Corbyn so much you want Labour to lose more than you want to avoid no deal.
We're about to have an election. There is literally no benefit to doing this now unless you hate Corbyn so much you want Labour to lose more than you want to avoid no deal.
Take one look at the electorate and tell me a second referendum is sensible.
If a second referendum isn't sensible, a general election really isn't sensible.
Referendum -> single issue
Change in government -> many issues
The country has been bogged down by one issue at the expense of everything else. A new (non fascist) government can at the very least break the gridlock on other matters, whereas Johnson is trying to send the country down the toilet for personal profit.
Indeed, which is precisely why a referendum is a more sensible way to decide it, especially as this whole fiasco was started with one.
A different government will still have to deal with Brexit first and foremost. The bigger issue is that a GE looks harder to win for Labour than a second referendum is for Remain. I want a GE and a second referendum, to be clear. If we only have a General Election, and the Conservatives win it because people are irrationally afraid of Corbyn and we end up leaving via No Deal, it will be a complete fucking disaster and supremely undemocratic. Yet this is a likely outcome of the current scenario.
If you want to trust the Tories with this, best of luck to you.
This is a fairly win-win play for Farage. Tories say yes, he gets lots of seats. Tories say no, he gets to appear magnanimous in the eyes of leavers and will have a huge head start in winning those voters away from Boris.
This is a weird response to Rodelero's post. Obviously he doesn't trust the Tories. Nor does he actually think a referendum before a GE is feasible. It would just be his preferred order of events if it were possible, for the clear reasons he has laid out.
The encouraging thing for me is that it feels like an offer Farage knows will be declined, which indicates where his primary interest lies (himself and the BXP, not Brexit itself).
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