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jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
Maybe a majority of MPs should take their collective heads out of their arses, revoke article 50, explain why with facts and truths, take it on the chin for the good of the country and people that live in it. Get your finger out and fix the country you useless bag of shites.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,884
London
BBC giving time to an alt-right activist 19 year old girl it seems.

Young Conservative: 'Party girls can do politics'" is the headline of a video on the BBC website. It's a perfect story – attractive teenager on Question Time goes viral for unexpected views on Brexit, thereby giving the press an excuse to run a colourful profile of her.

The 19-year-old Emily Hewertson is a good character – giving level-headed quotes, laughing, making self-deprecating asides and googling her name on camera.

But the BBC's puff piece doesn't question her about the "old men" in politics she so decries helming the pro-Brexit movement she supports, or how Brexit will impact the lives of young people like her who weren't eligible to vote in 2016's referendum. It doesn't question her on anything, in fact.

It also fails to mention that she's not simply a regular gal who likes clubbing with a bit of politics on the side. Just an ordinary fan of taking Instagram bikini shots who happens to be a disgruntled former Tory voter.

She's actually well plugged into the UK's young right. She's a member of Turning Point UK, a right-wing pressure group aimed at millennials that posts her videos about politics. She was even described by the Mailas working as an "influencer" for the group. Its US originators have been accused of anti-Islam messages, and identified by the extremism monitor Southern Poverty Law Center in the US as having links to racists. The UK anti-extremism group Hope not Hate found links with radical right-wing activists and conspiracy theorists.


Giving biased press to the alt-right without actually questioning and making them explain their beliefs is so blatant from the BBC now. Of course they mention her political activism after being called out on it by the New Statesman. Turning Point UK is just an offshoot of the Trumpian organization run by Charlie Kirk.

I live close by. It is a two-horse race between Labour and Brexit. I have to admit, TBP have played a bit of a blinder by splitting the vote between Labour and the Lib Dems by promoting them as their main rivals in all their social media posts. It is going to work for them. It should be a safe Labour seat but they are going to lose.

As far as I know, isn't the local Labour candidate also a garbage person too for endorsing anti-Semitic posts? That doesn't help either.

 
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Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,100
Chesire, UK
I live close by. It is a two-horse race between Labour and Brexit. I have to admit, TBP have played a bit of a blinder by splitting the vote between Labour and the Lib Dems by promoting them as their main rivals in all their social media posts. It is going to work for them. It should be a safe Labour seat but they are going to lose.

Peterborough is a Swing seat.

Thatcher won it twice. Major won it. Blair won it twice. Howard won it. Cameron won it twice. Corbyn won it by 600 votes.

Any seat that Howard's Tories won can in no way be described as "a safe Labour seat".
 

Deleted member 14649

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,524
Peterborough is a Swing seat.

Thatcher won it twice. Major won it. Blair won it twice. Howard won it. Cameron won it twice. Corbyn won it by 600 votes.

Any seat that Howard's Tories won can in no way be described as "a safe Labour seat".

Peterborough's demographic has changed as much during that time. I didn't say it had a history of Labour winning but they would walk it now, if not for Brexit.
 

Gurgelhals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,709

mJLdo5h.jpg
 

Deleted member 34788

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 29, 2017
3,545
Lab win! Increased the majority by 10% as well.

Get in, fucking farage left the building even before the vote results were tallied. That should play well over social media!

In a city that voted 61% leave, this was the BXP seat to win, but looking at the voting numbers, they cannablised the Tory vote, which held up ok enough given the expected result.
 

Deleted member 14649

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,524
Lab win! Increased the majority by 10% as well.

Get in, fucking farage left the building even before the vote results were tallied. That should play well over social media!

In a city that voted 61% leave, this was the BXP seat to win, but looking at the voting numbers, they cannablised the Tory vote, which held up ok enough given the expected result.

I have never been more glad to be wrong. Great start to the day! Faith (slightly) restored.
 

ss1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
805

Brexit party insiders said Labour's reliance upon a mainly Pakistani vote in inner-city wards had been the difference between the parties. "Some of these houses had 14 people in them registered to vote. It would be interesting to see what proportion voted Labour," said one.

Labour have denied relying on the city's Asian voting, and insisted that it was a "racist trope".

Hahahaha. The bitterness from the Brexit party!! Get stuffed Farage!
 

ss1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
805
I have been enjoying the hubris of Boris about simply pissing off a couple of weeks after he takes over, i didn't think about the civil service being all over the place as well. Also that article mentions the pre chrimbo strain on warehouses and transportation etc, what happened to all the fridges and warehouses the government booked for march?

And right on cue the official in charge of delivering "frictionless" border resigns: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...cial-in-charge-of-brexit-border-plans-resigns
 

brain_stew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,727
The Peterborough result is interesting in that even in a Brexity seat, with a slim Labour majority, a jailed former MP, off the back of the EU elections and Labour's historically low opinion polling all the Brexit party managed to do was split the Tory vote.

There's a lot Lab-Con and Lib-Con marginals across the country and is they play out similarly it spells very bad news for the Tories and the Brexit party. I can see a lot of tactical voting, which could mean collectively a very big majority for Remain between SNP-LAB-LDM.
 

DeltaRed

Member
Apr 27, 2018
5,746
The Peterborough result is still too close for my liking, it is good Labour can win a Leave seat but it does suggest the Brexit Party would pick up a few seats in a GE which is better than UKIP ever did. Add the UKIP vote to the Brexit Party and there'd be almost nothing in it. Hopefully those two and the Tories canabalise each other, the folly of all going after the same hardcore voters.
 
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War Peaceman

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,441
UKIP should have won seats at the last GE. Honestly it is fucked up that they didn't, given the amount of votes they got. I don't want UKIP/BXP anywhere near any kind of power, but it is a democracy.Plus they are fuelled by the grievance.
 

Garfield

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 31, 2018
2,772
I get that the candidates have to play to their base, and the internal polling will show them very clearly that not going for no deal means you won't win the leadership...

But why can they all just be honest for a second, there is no majority to get no deal through the house, if they want to do it then fine, call a GE on the basis that you are going to the polls to seek a mandate to go for no deal... the 120K Tory members are being hoodwinked.

The only play I can see if a Tory leader forcing the opposition to revoke art 50 and use that chaos afterwards to go for a GE, but any opposition worth their salt won't play that card, when a VONC is the path well travelled.

I can see it allready the new leader is going to ask for a delay and blame the EU saying they are not ready to negotiate due to their elections
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
Brexit party didn't get the seat, lol, good news.

3418.jpg


Of course he is a gold chain wearer.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,348
Labour won the seat? Wasn't sure they would.

Meanwhile the BBC radio 4 program this morning still interviewed goddamn farage. Not the winning MP, and not their party leader, nope. How are we supposed to believe the BBC is an impartial broadcaster, Christ
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,429
Not a good sign for the Brexit party that they couldn't even win a seat in a Brexit constituency in a recall election, it shows that even now when all anyone cares about is Brexit, they still split the right vote much harder than the left (that will only get worse for them as they start announcing policies).
 

Dan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,950
Not a good sign for the Brexit party that they couldn't even win a seat in a Brexit constituency in a recall election, it shows that even now when all anyone cares about is Brexit, they still split the right vote much harder than the left (that will only get worse for them as they start announcing policies).

Apparently they had zero ground presence - which just goes to show how seriously they were really taking this (or being incredibly naive in thinking "people will vote for us anyway")..
 

CampFreddie

A King's Landing
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,953
It was quite close, since labour lost a lot of voters to the Libdems. Luckily the tory/brexit split was more even.

Despite generally voting Libdem and generally disliking Labour/Corbyn, I think you have to be a special kind of crazy to defect from Lab to LibDem (presumably due to brexit or maybe antisemitism) when the only real opposition are the Brexit party.
This is tactical voting 101. If you've no chance of winning, vote for the lesser evil.
 

CampFreddie

A King's Landing
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,953
Minor point. You'll see how all government official civil service statements refer to EU Exit and not Brexit.
Why?
If you thought they hated the word Brexit as a slang term, you'd be wrong.
If you though it was a case of Anglo-centric "Fog in channel, Continent cut off", you'd be wrong.
Because Northern Ireland isn't part of Britain, so saying "Brexit" carries an implication that the Union could break up
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,555
UK
Minor point. You'll see how all government official civil service statements refer to EU Exit and not Brexit.
Why?
If you thought they hated the word Brexit as a slang term, you'd be wrong.
If you though it was a case of Anglo-centric "Fog in channel, Continent cut off", you'd be wrong.
Because Northern Ireland isn't part of Britain, so saying "Brexit" carries an implication that the Union could break up
Actually it's because brexit isn't an official term and the civil service has to refer to it under the official act.

Source - I'm a civil servant
 

Zastava

Member
Feb 19, 2018
2,108
London
I'm happy that BXP didn't win in Peterborough but still a bit terrifying they did so well when they still don't even have a fucking manifesto and clearly never will if Farage can possibly avoid it. Heard some reports on twitter that Trump's NHS comments pushed some voters away from BXP to Labour.

Worse, apparently the results are in line with national polling and that the BXP would pick up hundreds of seats in a proper GE with that kind of vote share.

In other not-really-news, support for no deal is highest amongst wealthier older people.

It is commonly assumed that Leave supporters want to leave the EU — regardless of the type of Brexit — more than Remain supporters want to remain. But a new YouGov survey of over 1,600 British citizens carried out by academic researchers shows it is wrong. In fact, the opposite is true.

While 33 per cent of the country now want a no-deal Brexit, 42 per cent say it is their least-favourite outcome. Our survey also shows that support for the Brexit Party is higher among financially comfortable voters — adding to previous research showing that support for no-deal is also higher in that group.

Leave voters are more likely to find it easy to manage financially. The March survey showed that support for no-deal was driven by Leave voters in more comfortable financial circumstances and the latest survey has found that they are also the most likely to have voted for the Brexit. Those who are the most vulnerable to an economic downturn are more likely to have rejected both. Leave voters who found it very difficult to manage financially were the most likely group to have switched their support to Remain and less likely to have voted for the Brexit Party or Ukip.

Support for no-deal is also related to age. Forty eight per cent of voters over 60 rank it as their first choice outcome, compared to 17 per cent of 18-to-30 year olds. Equally, 40 per cent of those over-60 voted for the Brexit Party in the European parliament elections, whereas only 11 per cent of people under-30 did so.

Brexit Attitudes Survey at the New Statesman
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...cial-in-charge-of-brexit-border-plans-resigns


"The government official in charge of delivering "frictionless" Brexit border arrangements, including emergency plans for Dover and Ireland in the event of no deal, has quit just two years into her job. Karen Wheeler, director general of Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs Brexit border delivery group, was the lead official coordinating a cross-Whitehall response involving police, ports, customs and freight interests. Her departure is being seen as a blow to the government and increasing the risk that the UK will not be as prepared for a possible no deal on 31 October"

From the sounds of the department it is filled with people who know what they are doing, interesting to see their takes on the border tech etc. Boris would probably be happy to have less of these know it all's around.

"Officials were unafraid of politically inconvenient truths, including Wheeler, who earlier this year said there were no magic technological solutions for preventing a hard border with Ireland in the event of no deal."
 

Deleted member 34788

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Nov 29, 2017
3,545


Good , let the bxp put the foot in the mouth more with an ever increasing voter base. The more bxp turns into a UKIP but with a blue shade instead of purple, the more people will fuck off voting for it and coalesce the other parties. Farage will never entertain this, but he is one of the reasons why they lost.


I guarantee Farage will scream they need more funding, and more fake news shit rather then improving the much needed aspects of his party.
 

iapetus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,078
God help the Brexit party if they ever have to provide a manifesto. Their entire appeal is based on offering a collection of vaguely described fantasies. And even with that, they can't win in what should have been an ideal seat for them. Force them to actually have some policies and they'll lose a chunk of those voters and only be good for splitting the Tory vote nationwide.
 

Deleted member 34788

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Nov 29, 2017
3,545
Apparently they had zero ground presence - which just goes to show how seriously they were really taking this (or being incredibly naive in thinking "people will vote for us anyway")..

It was hubris and arrogance, classical to the populist parties. They thought social media would do the trick, not realising that is the domain of labour and the years worth of effort put into having an online Platform. Labour has long figured out you need plenty of boots on the ground and a strong, effective online presence. That and the populism farage has is appealing to the aged, grey, tired crazies that want no deal. So plenty of the ever shrinking Tory base. Every pic of young people I've seen on media holding a BXP placard felt forced and an exception, rather then the rule.

It also kinda takes hold corbyns office as well, hence the loooong, slow pivot towards a second ref.
 

Garfield

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 31, 2018
2,772
Nigel Farage has delivered a letter to number 10 demanding to be part of the negotiations. Cause that will work
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
So he just delivered a letter for a photo op, sad that people won't see it that way and when the government says no etc.

I thought he didn't want a deal. Was he going to walk in there smash his fist on the table, we ruled most of the world, EU reply "and what?"
 

GAMEPROFF

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,582
Germany
So he just delivered a letter for a photo op, sad that people won't see it that way and when the government says no etc.

I thought he didn't want a deal. Was he going to walk in there smash his fist on the table, we ruled most of the world, EU reply "and what?"
He is aware that they say no and them saying no is the reason why he did this, because he can make a scandal out of this and appealing to the morons who voted/would vote for his idiots party.

Edit: OK, I am an big idiot, I misread your post, nevermind^^
 

Wamapoke

Member
Apr 11, 2018
2,725
Corbyns tactics just defended a seat in a 61% leave constituency. There is no spin needed when the result is there in front of you.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
The Brexit Party manifesto if they ever get around to one is going to be the ultimate unicorn list. They'll just lie to get what they want then flip flop, yes yes like many parties but they really are bottom of the barrel dangerous con artists.

It's too true about Conservatives shutting down that Trump quote pretty fast. Even Humpreys on Radio 4 was talking like it never happened that complete shite bag, how has he not been fired yet.
 
It was quite close, since labour lost a lot of voters to the Libdems. Luckily the tory/brexit split was more even.

Despite generally voting Libdem and generally disliking Labour/Corbyn, I think you have to be a special kind of crazy to defect from Lab to LibDem (presumably due to brexit or maybe antisemitism) when the only real opposition are the Brexit party.
This is tactical voting 101. If you've no chance of winning, vote for the lesser evil.
Counterpoint would be if you're a Labour supporter who wants to use the by-election to send a message to the leadership that they have to shift your way to get your support.

I agree that voting LD or Green in this particular riding would make no tactical sense in a general election, but in a by-election there is a case for using it to send a message.
 

Ushojax

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,927
He still thinks he can win power and get a soft brexit, it doesn't take any spin even if i think he's got it wrong on this one.
He might pull it off, everything is in the air at the moment.

He's not going to win power and deliver a soft Brexit because the Tories will never call for a GE while Brexit remains unresolved. It would be suicide.

There aren't the numbers in parliament for no-deal, second referendum or soft Brexit and those numbers won't change without a GE, but we aren't going to get a GE because of the rise of the Brexit party. We are completely trapped unless a Boris decides to have a second referendum and gets his party onside. It's either that or revoke article 50. We have to assume that Corbyn would still campaign for a soft Brexit in a new referendum so the fuckwit has clearly learned nothing. He's still trying to play 4D chess on a one-dimensional issue.
 

DorkLord54

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,465
Michigan
I'm happy that BXP didn't win in Peterborough but still a bit terrifying they did so well when they still don't even have a fucking manifesto and clearly never will if Farage can possibly avoid it. Heard some reports on twitter that Trump's NHS comments pushed some voters away from BXP to Labour.

Worse, apparently the results are in line with national polling and that the BXP would pick up hundreds of seats in a proper GE with that kind of vote share.

In other not-really-news, support for no deal is highest amongst wealthier older people.





Brexit Attitudes Survey at the New Statesman
I thought it was pretty well-known at this point that - while there is a significant working-class element to it - the surge of populist right-wing support throughout the West largely comes from older, middle-and-upper-class people who dislike the social changes that have transpired in their countries, and want to turn the wheel back to when they were wee bairns.
 

Zastava

Member
Feb 19, 2018
2,108
London
I thought it was pretty well-known at this point that - while there is a significant working-class element to it - the surge of populist right-wing support throughout the West largely comes from older, middle-and-upper-class people who dislike the social changes that have transpired in their countries, and want to turn the wheel back to when they were wee bairns.
You'd think so, but the message from our media class for 3 years has been that Brexit and the accompanying far-right surge is driven by northern working class people (northern working class is synonymous with white and racist in our media) , and not the comfortable, well-off, older people in the Tory shires that are actually the largest group by far supporting it.
 

DorkLord54

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,465
Michigan
You'd think so, but the message from our media class for 3 years has been that Brexit and the accompanying far-right surge is driven by northern working class people (northern working class is synonymous with white and racist in our media) , and not the comfortable, well-off, older people in the Tory shires that are actually the largest group by far supporting it.
The same thing here with Trump voters, with most articles focusing on old working-class towns in places like Ohio and Pennsylvania, even tho his most hardcore supporters that best represent who voted for him are are people like this:

Generation Pickleball: Welcome to Florida's Political Tomorrowland - Republicans' political future looks a lot like this vibrant, fast-growing, Trump-friendly retirement community outside of Orlando.
The Villages is America's largest retirement community, a carefully planned, meticulously groomed dreamscape of gated subdivisions, wall-to-wall golf courses, adult-only pools and old-fashioned town squares. It's advertised as "Florida's friendliest hometown," and it's supposed to evoke a bygone era of traditional values when Americans knew their neighbors, respected their elders and followed the rules. It has the highest concentration of military veterans of any metropolitan area without a military base. It has strict regulations enforcing the uniformity of homes (no second stories, no bright colors, no modern flourishes) as well as the people living in them (no families with children, except to visit). And it is Trump country, a reliably Republican, vocally patriotic, almost entirely white enclave that gave the president nearly 70 percent of the vote.

Older voters are America's most reliable voters, which is why baby-boomer boomtowns like The Villages represent the most significant threat to a potential Democratic wave in Florida in 2018—and the most significant source of Republican optimism for many years to come. Because while the Villages may look like the past, with its retro architecture and gray-haired demographics, it sells like the future. This master-planned paradise an hour northwest of Disney World has been the fastest-growing metro area in the United States in four of the past five years. And as the baby boom generation continues to retire, The Villages is continuing to expand into nearby cattle pastures, luring more pensioners to this fantasyland in the sunshine, gradually swinging America's largest swing state to the right.

Trump supporters who get the most media attention tend to be economically anxious laborers in economically depressed factory towns. But in Florida, economically secure retirement meccas like The Villages are the real reason Trump won in 2016—and why the state's Republicans, who have controlled Tallahassee for two decades, think they can avoid a blue wave in 2018 and help reelect Trump in 2020. For all the hype about Puerto Ricans moving to the Sunshine State after Hurricane Maria, or high school students like the Parkland gun control activists turning 18 and registering to vote, any Democratic surge could be offset by the migration of Republican-leaning seniors who like Florida's balmy weather and lack of income tax. If midterm elections typically play out as judgments on the presidency, then Florida's upcoming contests will be a race between the usual laws of political gravity and the state's demographic destiny: Trump remains unpopular with younger voters, and Democrats have already flipped four Florida legislative seats in low-profile special elections this year, but the older voters who are most likely to vote in the midterms are increasingly likely to move to Florida and support the president.

It makes sense that they're coming to The Villages, because this leisure-class Sun Belt oasis is a lot more pleasant than the dying working-class Rust Belt towns that journalists usually visit on Trump-voter safaris. It feels like a 40-square-mile cruise ship, or a college campus without required classes. It has enough golf courses to play a different one every week of the year, and more than 100 miles of golf cart trails that keep traffic congestion to a minimum. It's the pickleball capital of America, appropriate considering that the badminton-meets-tennis-ish paddle game has become America's fastest-growing sport. It has 3,000 clubs that keep 125,000 Villagers busy doing everything from belly dancing to astrology, water aerobics to water skiing, karaoke to quilting. It isn't exactly luxurious, but it's comfortable with a median home price above $250,000; though a new POLITICO/AARP poll finds plenty of concern elsewhere in Florida, the only real economic anxiety for most Villagers is the state of their investment portfolios, which are thriving in the Trump era. At a meeting of the Financial Markets and Investment Club in early June, a speaker announced: "NASDAQ just closed at a record high!"
"They want an America that's a little more like it was when they were growing up, and that's what Trump is offering," says Daniel Webster, the area's conservative Republican congressman. Dennis Baxley, the area's equally conservative Republican state senator, points out that The Villages offers that, too, with safe streets, light traffic, artificial lakes that provide a real sense of serenity, and hundreds of support groups for every imaginable malady or hardship. It's a throwback to when they were children in 1950s America, without actual children.

"It really is like living in a village, where there's law and order, and people take care of each other," says Baxley, who owns three funeral homes in The Villages. "Trump tapped into that sense that the rest of America isn't like that anymore, that some people don't have to follow the rules."
 
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