BREXIT |OT2.0| No thread is better than a bad thread

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,348
It would be funny if all their bluster about no deal being on the table means a better negotiating position against the EU and in the end nothing changes. Likely.
Britain voting for no deal is the equivalent of greece voting against another rescue program in 2015.

Everyone knows they’ll be back at the again. Only question is how much economic damage are they willing to take beforehand.
 

Garfield

Member
Oct 31, 2018
1,011
I don’t want o defend any of them, but this vote was silly as you were effectively gimping the new leader before he was in post, Labour just not being patient, this needs to be done if it looks like the new PM would do something silly

Not surprised it lost
 

null

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,230

Even Boris knows there's a bunch of shameless self-serving MPs who would rather crash the economy than face an election.

The man's playing chicken and he's not moving.
 

brain_stew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
176
Absolutely dispicable that 8 Labour MPs voted against the motion, it would have passed with their backing and we could have took the country off a knife edge. To the surprise of no one Kate Hoey voted against it.
 

solidussnaku

Member
Nov 29, 2017
570
Yeah wow this whole thing has turned slightly more terrifying now Boris has opened his mouth.

It was the endgame as soon as may lurched to the right, and when her deal was voted down the first time.

Thankfully this is happening faster then I predicted, the end of the current Tory party is here way before the end if the current gov term. The Tories are ripping each other apart more quickly then I predicted.

The ground is fertile for a GE and growing by the hour.
We're going to crash our economy even more with a no deal aren't we. Fuck.
Nah, BoJo will go full psycho and let the opportunity to govern the UK long term slip through his hands. We saw a snippet of it today with his presser, he can do the bravado, but as soon as detail is required he kinds fold like a cheap suit. He wants and likes a GE, so he's just waiting for the contest to be over.

Him becoming pm doesn't change the parliament makeup. The only, only thing parliament has voted for consistently since the last year is against no deal. It always comes down to the wire, which isn't the month.

The vote would never pass today, too early for this and frankly not needed the way things will go.

No deal will not happen on this parliaments watch, and the next one is shaping up to be even more remain the this one.
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,262
Last time it took parliament looking down the barrel of the gun to just about take Brexit seriously. We're months away from that being the case again.
Yeah, there is just going to be a lot of posturing and "we won WW2" until September, when suddenly all will fold and whoever is PM at the time will go to Brussels every week to beg for an extension. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,062
Yeah, there is just going to be a lot of posturing and "we won WW2" until September, when suddenly all will fold and whoever is PM at the time will go to Brussels every week to beg for an extension. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.
Does that still happen when a GE comes around by default when 5 years have passed?

There would still be no parliamentary arithmetic to get anything through right or does a majority government change that?

I wonder if deep down they just want someone else to hold the bag and deliver whatever just so they don't own it then shout quiet betrayals from the side lines while thinking thank fuck that's over then the cycle of Tory Eurosceptics wanting out the EU starts all over again but successive PMs don't act stupid like Cameron did until......the year is 2065, idiot Tory PM gives the public another vote on Europe.
 

Beefy

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,664
Boris is going come in spewing shit thinking he dope. Then in like a month he will realise how shit won't work and start making fucked up remarks.
 
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excowboy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
411
Heard IDS on Radio 4 earlier. He explained that Johnson's Brexit plan, in a 'no deal' scenario, is to invoke the WTO's General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), Article 24. I've heard this mentioned before and understand the general opinion is that it's nonsense?

Top Google hit is this opinion piece: A ‘Managed No Deal’ WTO option using Article 24 of GATT can avoid raising tariffs or quotas - David Campbell Bannerman

I assume this - and thinking like it - is the basis of the 'managed No Deal' soundbite. I have to admit that to a laymen, this article has me going 'hmmm... maybe it'll be OK?'. Or am I just clutching at straws ERA? Bring it up because IDS suggested this was Boris's explicit plan in the event of 'no deal' and he said he'd had it straight from the horses mouth. Given that PM Johnson / no deal is currently a likely outcome, I'm interested to understand more. Can anyone eli5?
 

Gawge

Member
Oct 27, 2017
384
Would love to get someone sensible in as PM like Rory Stewart who would prevent No Deal (despite voting for it today) rather than Corbyn (who led a vote against No Deal today).

93% of Tories voted for No Deal today. 90% of Labour MPs voted against No Deal today.
 

AdemoN

Member
Nov 20, 2017
5
Heard IDS on Radio 4 earlier. He explained that Johnson's Brexit plan, in a 'no deal' scenario, is to invoke the WTO's General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), Article 24. I've heard this mentioned before and understand the general opinion is that it's nonsense?

Top Google hit is this opinion piece: A ‘Managed No Deal’ WTO option using Article 24 of GATT can avoid raising tariffs or quotas - David Campbell Bannerman

I assume this - and thinking like it - is the basis of the 'managed No Deal' soundbite. I have to admit that to a laymen, this article has me going 'hmmm... maybe it'll be OK?'. Or am I just clutching at straws ERA? Bring it up because IDS suggested this was Boris's explicit plan in the event of 'no deal' and he said he'd had it straight from the horses mouth. Given that PM Johnson / no deal is currently a likely outcome, I'm interested to understand more. Can anyone eli5?
My understanding of the issue with article 24 is that you either need to have a deal in place or both parties need to agree to its use. Therefore if the EU say they are not happy to trade based on article 24 then it isn't happening.

More here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47216870

Edit: It really pisses me off that these lies continue to be peddled unchallenged. I haven't heard the interview but these untruths painted as facts are the main reason we are in this mess!
 
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PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,509
London
Article 24 isn't a runner if we don't agree on the irish backstop etc, i don't see it as anything more than British arrogance, the EU has to agree to it.
 

excowboy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
411
it's lies and it's stupid, this is not how it works, this is not how any of this works.
Thanks for the link. Not sure why you've reduced my post to 'bullshit' - was trying to be clear that I was just asking the question! Helpful read there though.

My understanding of the issue with article 24 is that you either need to have a deal in place or both parties need to agree to its use. Therefore if the EU say they are not happy to trade based on article 24 then it isn't happening.

More here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47216870

Edit: It really pisses me off that these lies continue to be peddled unchallenged. I haven't heard the interview but these untruths painted as facts are the main reason we are in this mess!
Thanks for this too.
 

Bleu

Member
Sep 21, 2018
554
Thanks for the link. Not sure why you've reduced my post to 'bullshit' - was trying to be clear that I was just asking the question! Helpful read there though.
because quoting it made a big splash and i started writing in the middle of it because i have fat fingers so i deleted all of it :p
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,509
London
You have to almost laugh at the tories using and turning a no deal situation with the EU into a deal with the EU and to use a WTO process for creating free trade deals to leave a free trade area. It's almost mind melting.
 

excowboy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
411
because quoting it made a big splash and i started writing in the middle of it because i have fat fingers so i deleted all of it :p
Haha OK! :)

No problem. Just to clarify my comment about peddling misinformation, I hope you didn't think I was referring to you. I was talking about the national news outlets whose job it is to ensure that factual information is presented to people.
No worries, that's how I understood your comment. One of the reasons I asked is because I've seen some talk of it but not enough concrete info.

During the IDS interview he was trying to explain it and Evan Davis cut him off saying 'I don't want listeners to get lost in the detail' or words to that effect.

I just found that really frustrating. Like, if this is the best idea they have, they ought to be able to explain it so it can be seen for what it is (in this case, another hollow mess). Also, when we were given the vote in a referendum, Parliament implicitly invited the electorate to have an understanding and opinion on these details. It was a fucking stupid idea, but here we are.

Preventing people engaging with the actual substance of the issues is one of the big problems that has caused this utter shambles, so journalists should be holding their plans to account.
 
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Uzzy

Uzzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,217
So the Brexiteers faith in Article 24 reminds me a lot of Sovereign Citizens, in that they think international relations and international law are just a matter of finding the right line and saying it repeatedly, rather than looking at the whole and trying to understand it!
 
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Uzzy

Uzzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,217
Isn’t that the general problem nowadays? Folk getting attached to reductive interpretations so they don’t have to learn anything?
Quite true. But politicians really should know better, and our media certainly should be holding them to account and calling out their blatant lies and falsehoods. Instead, they're just letting the Brexiteers spread this myth which they know is blatantly wrong.

Anyway, good news is that Boris is totally going to respect the institutions of Parliament once he becomes PM.


So that's good.
 

solidussnaku

Member
Nov 29, 2017
570
Quite true. But politicians really should know better, and our media certainly should be holding them to account and calling out their blatant lies and falsehoods. Instead, they're just letting the Brexiteers spread this myth which they know is blatantly wrong.

Anyway, good news is that Boris is totally going to respect the institutions of Parliament once he becomes PM.


So that's good.

Lol and my take was supposedly optimistic!!

Yeah right.

BoJo will make a.fucking.mess.of.it, he will go full psycho and fuck off his advisers soon enough, and do his godamned best to ram no deal through to the point the Tories will collectively shit pants enough to rue the day this voted for him. Remember not even holding the powerful office of FS was enough to deflate and temper his ego and his ability to fuck himself enough he has to fucking RESIGN less then 2 years into the job.

Beefy is on point, he will stroll into No10 thinking he's the hottest shit since slice bread and within a month become overwhelmed and panic stricken with the ABSOLUTE mess he has inherited. Then make fuckheaded comments and actions that makes Mays 2 years in the job look like a marathon.
 
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Uzzy

Uzzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,217
On the bright side, the media will definitely hold him to account..


Oh no wait, that's a journalist/paid cheerleader for Boris threatening 'trouble' for other journalists who ask questions of him.
 

Koukalaka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,815
Scotland
On the bright side, the media will definitely hold him to account..


Oh no wait, that's a journalist/paid cheerleader for Boris threatening 'trouble' for other journalists who ask questions of him.
The Daily Telegraph continues to be pure trash. At least the likes of the Sun and the Daily Mail have the decency to not pretend they're bastions of quality journalism.
 

Sir Hound

Member
Oct 28, 2017
430
I’m actually starting to look forward to Bojo’s Brexit. It’ll be a no deal, which will be a mess, and he’ll rightfully go down in history as the cunt that caused it from start to finish.

And then hopefully this shitty egotistical country will be cured of its body dysmorphia.
 

Zastava

Member
Feb 19, 2018
937
London
On the bright side, the media will definitely hold him to account..


Oh no wait, that's a journalist/paid cheerleader for Boris threatening 'trouble' for other journalists who ask questions of him.
Holy fucking shit. That any British journalist feels making a threat like this is acceptable, let alone one at a 'respectable' paper like the Telegraph, shows just how far we've fallen and how much worse it could get. She should lose her job for this and become persona non grata. More likely she'll get a promotion or a spot in Boris's press team.

Terrifying.
 

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,889
Quite true. But politicians really should know better, and our media certainly should be holding them to account and calling out their blatant lies and falsehoods. Instead, they're just letting the Brexiteers spread this myth which they know is blatantly wrong.

Anyway, good news is that Boris is totally going to respect the institutions of Parliament once he becomes PM.


So that's good.
You know, I heard he had blue blood, but I didn't think it was the fucking Stuarts.
 

RellikSK

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,298
The Saj wasn’t invited to the state banquet.


I wonder why?

My guess is that they were scared Trump would confuse him with Sadiq Khan.
 

Zaph

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,508
If you're a PoC and a Tory you've fucked yourself - they will never consider you one of them no matter how much you shuck and jive. Such blatant self-loathing.
 

nature boy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,498
Article 24 isn't a runner if we don't agree on the irish backstop etc, i don't see it as anything more than British arrogance, the EU has to agree to it.
This is just not about the EU though

The sacred US-UK trade deal will never get through US Congress if it blows up the Good Friday agreement.
I mean even the new NAFTA deal that's far less problematic hasn't passed.

I also don't think the US will have lower demands than the EU regarding the backstop