BREXIT |OT2.0| No thread is better than a bad thread

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,973
TBQH, it's already being hurled as such.
Yes but centrists find themselves in the same predicament as terfs. You can't spend years loudly proclaiming you're something (shit) and then when the realisation kicks in that the label is toxic, suddenly become offended at your own proclamation. Even if I call someone a fucking centrist, it still doesn't make centrist a slur.
 

solidussnaku

Member
Nov 29, 2017
692
If Labour were in power, their options are:

No deal, no referendum
Negotiate a deal, no referendum
Negotiate a deal, referendum
No deal, referendum
Revoke without referendum

Labour have ruled out the first two options, and the fourth is wildly irresponsible. Noone claims to want the 5th so... What does that leave?

According to some, Corbyn is a dirty secret ultra brexiteer so it must be op 4. Fuck responsibility and just do a remain/no deal ref, it's obviously, clearly what he wants!!

But seriously, it's op 3. Will be written as such in the manifesto when the snap election happens.
 

kadotsu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,191
Weird how Labour always gets very Anti-semitc when questions of systemic racism in the Tory party bubble up.
 

null

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,291
Panorama tomorrow is about Labour and antisemistm which is probably going to be a shitshow. That's why now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,164
Panorama tomorrow is about Labour and antisemistm which is probably going to be a shitshow. That's why now.
Also the fact they still haven't dealt with Williamson.

Surely they have to go full zero tolerance. Even if the reporting isn't particularly helpful they have to navigate this with more authority because it already turns too many people off.
 

null

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,291
Also the fact they still haven't dealt with Williamson.

Surely they have to go full zero tolerance. Even if the reporting isn't particularly helpful they have to navigate this with more authority because it already turns too many people off.
The process is shit and needs improving but it's a process. Corbyn has actually tried to do that in fairness and improved it but it's such a disaster now and there's no trust it needs to be scrapped. Right now 'zero tolerance' doesn't really carry much weight because people that have been accused go through the various levels of the party until they're kicked out, it's not something someone can just decide (unless you're Alastair Campbell). That's happened to 12 people in the last year (another ~60 odd just quit before it got that far) according to the only numbers they've ever given out. I imagine it's worse than that though.

Williamson's case has been actually been referred today after he was initially let off so he's currently suspended.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,749
Either they ruled it beyond the scope of the bill, which would make some sense. Or there's concern that they don't have the votes and a defeat on it would be taken as 'MP's OK with proroguation of Parliament.'

Other amendments from Grieve have been selected though, and he's not too concerned apparently.
Ok, thank you.
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,762
please do not take this as an endorsement or apologia for anti-semitism, or williamson who I hadn't heard of until this story, it is just a question of me trying to establish what's happened

in every story I've read about this, the only quote that is ever given is Williamson saying that the Labour party has given too much ground on anti semitism accusations. Is he also supposed to have indulged in specific anti-semitism himself?
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,762

I don't know enough about the process to know wether this means it's a done deal or if there's more wrangling to come, but it's a very belated step in the right direction

Also just reinforces the death of the dup deal I guess
 
OP
OP
Uzzy

Uzzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,330

I don't know enough about the process to know wether this means it's a done deal or if there's more wrangling to come, but it's a very belated step in the right direction

Also just reinforces the death of the dup deal I guess
This and the abortion vote that passed mean that unless a new Northern Ireland Executive is formed by 21st October, UK laws on same-sex marriage and abortion apply to Northern Ireland. So that's a good step.
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,762
This and the abortion vote that passed mean that unless a new Northern Ireland Executive is formed by 21st October, UK laws on same-sex marriage and abortion apply to Northern Ireland. So that's a good step.
Yeah, though the article made it sound like they can revoke it if they do re-form
 

Tickling

Member
Oct 29, 2017
891
This is what the Dup wanted as these contraversial issues were taken out of there hands and so they can say they didn't put them through. This actually took longer than I thought. Next will be the water charges.

Also I took a lot of flack on this thread about the border issue. What has the Irish government just announced about the border?
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,449
I'm glad it passed. Though it's not a guarantee yet. Watch this be the thing that pushes the DUP to get devolution back just so it doesn't have to go through.
 

Tickling

Member
Oct 29, 2017
891
I'm glad it passed. Though it's not a guarantee yet. Watch this be the thing that pushes the DUP to get devolution back just so it doesn't have to go through.
It won't happen. Both parties want this and while Dup may say publically they don't they know it has to come to pass. They can just blame Westminster in forcing these issues through. It just politics.
 

theaface

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,992
Think this belongs in the UK Poli thread rather than the Brexit one. Same goes for Labour antisemitism row.
 

Lagamorph

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,844
According to some, Corbyn is a dirty secret ultra brexiteer so it must be op 4. Fuck responsibility and just do a remain/no deal ref, it's obviously, clearly what he wants!!

But seriously, it's op 3. Will be written as such in the manifesto when the snap election happens.
Secretly? Corbyn has been a Brexiter for 30 years and made no secret of it.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,443
This and the abortion vote that passed mean that unless a new Northern Ireland Executive is formed by 21st October, UK laws on same-sex marriage and abortion apply to Northern Ireland. So that's a good step.
So DUP either forms an executive which will likely be more pro-devolution and unification, or abortion and same-sex marriage become legal in NI. Lose-Lose for them.
 
OP
OP
Uzzy

Uzzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,330

That's the 'stop the prorogation of parliament' amendment. Or at least make it harder.
 

Garfield

Member
Oct 31, 2018
1,051
Why would Hunt even do these debates, it is clear Boris has the charisma to take him apart regardless of details, that bit at the break there

‘That’s the sprit Jeremy’. Cold as fucking ice take down
 

War Peaceman

Member
Oct 28, 2017
729
The only chance Hunt has it to fucking wreck him, he's losing by doing everything he's been doing so far in the campaign.
 

empyrean2k

Member
Oct 27, 2017
190
Why would Hunt even do these debates, it is clear Boris has the charisma to take him apart regardless of details, that bit at the break there

‘That’s the sprit Jeremy’. Cold as fucking ice take down
Think he was wrongly thinking g people would care about detail and not just ‘yes we can’ spirit. Plainly obvious boris ya no clue and no viable plan but the idiot audience lapping it up.
 
OP
OP
Uzzy

Uzzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,330
The only chance Hunt has it to fucking wreck him, he's losing by doing everything he's been doing so far in the campaign.
Yup. Hunt is winning the debate, but Boris is just standing there spouting off rubbish about optimism with his hands in his pockets. Sadly, that's worked for him so far in life, and will continue to do so.
 

plagiarize

Untethered once more
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
7,460
Cape Cod, MA
Glad to know there is that many lunatics.
The number of people who voted against it is terrifying, but I wasn't sure it'd pass (quite legitimately based on the result). So, fortunately it did. The thought of someone unilaterally pushing Britain off a cliff, without a parliamentary majority, or having been elected leader by the general population, well. Yeah. That was a scary thought.
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,236
Does it really matter what they say about the UK Ambassador, the US is going to screw us in a trade deal regardless so at least stand up for the UK, you know. Trump might not even be President by the time a deal is done. It's so absurd. Boris is a nightmare, the whole thing is and people are applauding.
 

plagiarize

Untethered once more
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
7,460
Cape Cod, MA
Does it really matter what they say about the UK Ambassador, the US is going to screw us in a trade deal regardless so at least stand up for the UK, you know. Trump might not even be President by the time a deal is done. It's so absurd. Boris is a nightmare, the whole thing is and people are applauding.
I feel like the UK just got pulled out of a horrible car wreck and we're still waiting to see just how badly injured they are. I've felt like that since 2016.
 

Garfield

Member
Oct 31, 2018
1,051
There is no right solution over this ambassador, if you sack him you look weak, if you keep him you look stupid...

Tbh he should fall on his sword, give him his pension on the quiet and get him out of there
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,236
He is going in 6 months anyway but I don't think keeping him during that time is stupid, not like Brexit is going to be anything but a shit show regardless and US deals being nothing more than bend over. He did nothing wrong, we've read leaks before and they are pretty similar in their truthful and frank analysis because that's what they want. Trump can blow hot air but the wheels will turn without him. Boris hung him out to dry which is pathetic, Hunt at least had a possible spine on this issue.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,586
London
Doesn't matter cause if the polls are correct Hunt is going to lose by a huge amount. Not even close. Since this is the Tory membership we're talking about Johnson is indeed going to win.
 

Beefy

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,790
There is no right solution over this ambassador, if you sack him you look weak, if you keep him you look stupid...

Tbh he should fall on his sword, give him his pension on the quiet and get him out of there
No way should he fall on his sword for something he didn't leak.