of course
even thought Boris threw them under the bus and voted for the backstop
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BREXIT |OT2.0| A parade of endless victories for Boris Johnson
- Thread starter Uzzy
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even thought Boris threw them under the bus and voted for the backstop
Even If that was true and it's not, why does it bother you?
My local fish and chips shop still wrap them in paper, just plain. Better than those plastic foam boxes many take outs use thankfully.
I think they want it wrapped in the Daily Mail like the rest of their miserable life
Imagine being so bought in to Boris' kipper stories that you think he can change the parliamentary maths that May spent years whipping with zero success.
You might as well have just put a blond wig on May, nothing has changed.
You might as well have just put a blond wig on May, nothing has changed.
Because I love to hate-listen, I've sat through the whole 12 minutes of the call. It took James 11 interminable minutes but she finally conceded she voted to Leave because she wanted "less immigration" after talking absolute bollocks about fish and chips paper and the NHS.
IT'S. ALWAYS. THE. SAME. FUCKING. STORY.
It's always the same tone too: 'I am X, I believe Y' and then James says 'why?' or 'what for?' and you can hear the adrenaline rush, and out comes the 'MY LIFE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT MATTERS AND I KNOW THREE THINGS THAT ARE SUPERFICIAL AND BRITISH HISTORY IS ONLY ABOUT STIFF UPPER LIP' and James plays with it and always doesn't go far enough but it's all that's needed cos the callers have nothing. Nothing.
It's a better written amendment, Grieves original amendment lacked teeth to get it in scope. This makes it difficult but not impossible to shutdown parliament, notably the neutral motion allows anti-no dealers to amend
It always white old people not wanting more people like me in UK.
Hung parliament then, if the Lib Dems hold true to not coalitioning with labour. Even if they did Lab + LibD + SNP wouldn't be incredibly functional I imagine - think there would be a massive kurfuffle of them refusing to let Corbyn sit as PM.
They got city I live in going Labour which I can see happening. Tories only stayed in by 36 votes last time
Heard about the amendment on LBC this morning from Theo. Given the average level of the current crop of MPs the logic used behind this amendment is very impressive. I gather it isn't concrete, but it feels Littlefinger-esque.
UKIP died when the tories went full Brexit. When they failed, BXP emerged. From a purely selfish perspective the pact makes no sense.
I don't think they hate the Tories in the same way say a lot of Labour voters do, they've just been humiliated over brexit and will continue to dig their heels in. If the Tories can't deliver brexit the way they want they'll just look for a strongman who says what they want to hear and it won't be Boris.
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The argument is that Boris caves into most / all of their demands out of desperation to win the election.
They don't need to go into coalition, just support money bills, it isn't about Corbyn for a lot of libdem's it is left wing economics etc, but i think they could tolerate them for a referendum and EU rules that limit what a socialist government could do anyway.
Mental to think that ten years ago, both main parties attacked the Lib Dems for wanting to tax and spend too much.
Edit: maybe more than ten years ago, I was thinking about when Charles Kennedy led the party.
Well to be fair that right wing very liberal economics side of the party was still there, i just don't think people noticed for some reason, probably as you say the Kennedy and Blairite shift.
Eh, no coalitions are happening. Deals will be made for either a second brexit ref or a indy ref in return for Corbyn as pm, and support for government bills. Don't see why or how even the lib Dems would turn that offer down.
The silver lining is that it's the ERG and they'll inevitably fuck up.
More importantly, the people who hated May by the end were the ERG Ultra Brexiteers. Small-fry back-bench gammon.
The people who hate Boris are, well, everyone to be honest. But the ones who hate him the most are Senior Remainers. People like Hammond and James and Stewart and Clark and Gauke. Not the biggest of Beasts, but still people who have held Offices of State.
The key thing to remember about Boris is that his support is built on the premise that the Brexiteers want to be lied to. They want to believe Brexit will succeed, otherwise it will undermine their whole existence. That is a flimsy level of support
Boris appears to be pinning his hopes to 40 unspecified Labour MPs which should give some idea about how much shit he's about to find himself in.
that is the best kind of support.
existential-kind of support is the best, that is why they would follow him to the gaz chambers, that is why you are fucked.
There is no turning back from that, those people would rather die than admit they were wrong.
If you have any options to get out of the uk or get an EU citizenship, this is why you should bail out.
But it has very narrow appeal and once the illusion is broken, it is gone.
And when will the illusion break ?
When it is too late, and reality hits.
edit : end even then, do you honestly think those people would admit they were wrong, or not blame the eu, or the brown people, or the jews, or whatever ?
come on.
fanatics are the best cannon fodder ever, they always are.
The illusion is insanely hard to break. It's a cultural keystone for a huge amount of people now. Who have been radicalised over the last couple of years to the point where brexit is the only thing that matters. It's going to take a *ludicrous* amount of harm for them to admit it was wrong.
The problem as well with hoping for the illusion to break is that there is a very easy play once the issues hit. It will be simple for Boris to say that it's either May's fault (he would have got a better deal if he'd been PM from the start) or it's the EU's fault (they are deliberately making it difficult to show the rest of the EU not to leave)
Boris will not own any disaster that happens.
Boris will not own any disaster that happens.
For the illusion to break, the media need to hold the Tories accountable.
Chances for that to happen are... Mediocre.
Chances for that to happen are... Mediocre.
The Tories are making money off this. JRM specialises in disaster capital, and has already moved his firm out of the UK. They never lose from this sort of thing, it's the general populace who end up poorer.
So, Philip Hammond has hit the interview circuit with French and German newspapers today and he's pretty much stating that, once he's out of No 11 and back to being a backbencher, he's going to join up with the Tory "rebels". And I would assume that he's not the only cabinet minister who's going to do that. This alone would pretty much erase whatever semblance of a working majority is still left once Boris takes over, wouldn't it?
Watch Boris offer him a front bench job and Hammond fall back into line
The Tories working majority on Brexit is probably around 6 (majority of 4 with the DUP, + Austin and Hoey: in a push come to shove situation you could probably add on another 10-20 Labour MPs). In a confidence vote, they'd probably end have a working majority of 5 (I imagine Hoey will vote with them), although I expect a lot of the independents would abstain. After the forthcoming byelection, the notional majority would almost certainly be 3.
Yes but and it's something which is almost unique to the Tories. His political career is done in any sense of ambition, he's very wealthy and will get a job in business where he'll make a fortune without issue. He's in full couldn't give a fuck mode, remember the single market was a Thatcherite achievement in many senses. Same with Grieve, while he likes being an MP, he can go back to being a full time QC and have a very fulfilling career. The Tories are full of people who have 'better' options than continuing to be in a party who can't stand them anymore. If you look at Philip Lee, he can go back to being a Doctor with no real loss of income, even the likes of Heidi Allan is independently wealthy and won't be on the street if she's no longer an MP.
Labour on the other hand have far more professional politicians who don't really have any other career prospects.
I know, it's served its purpose while the economy switched from manufacturing and all the upheaval, but he's not bothered about leaving the EU, Boris is more pro EU than he is, what a fucking farce this country is at the moment. it's going to get worse when the bloke pretending to be blind is king and he leads the people over the cliff.
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