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BREXIT |OT2.0| A parade of endless victories for Boris Johnson
- Thread starter Uzzy
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I think he was totally right to question Theresa May in PMQ the way he did it. She came out with a full on attack on Russian intelligence less than 24 hours after the crime had been committed and she presented no smoking gun during that session. I would have done the same. The way the media reflected it and the way the majority of people lapped it up shows precisely that the level of nuance with these things is inexistent. You're either FOR US or you are AGAINST US. Stupid.
Fuck no, it was an idiotic move. It was clear it was Russia and without a clear reason Corbyn and his aide shouldn't doubted our intelligence services. It allowed the Tories and Media to carry on with the Corbyn is a danger to our national security, and it took away Corbyn's chance to bash the Tories for not doing enough on Russian Oligarchs.
Your reaction to having doubts about May's case would be to hand over a sample to the world's biggest purveyor of misinformation so they can manufacture their own narrative based on internal "tests"?
Nothing justifies the latter.
If you are Corbyn, perhaps not. But for others, of course it is possible.
Actually, on Corbyn, whilst your logic of press absurdity is absolutely fair, Corbyn himself is dressed up in 'oh I am so thoughtful and careful' when actually he is as banal and partisan as any hawk: he calls for dialogue (curiously admired in an age when accommodation is seen as sin by many) and then... Never had any dialogue with anyone he doesn't already sympathise with.
I think the only people who dress Corbyn up in this way are those who want to tear him down for any minor deviation from those ideals.
I also don't think your latter point is true, although I don't know enough of his history to give examples.
The problem is, you ask most people who (don't like him) they'd like to replace Corbyn and the answer is always a moderate e.g Watson or (kill me now) Phillips. Any successor to Corbyn is going to be another person who shares his policies and no doubt people will still be mad, and the wheel of shite will carry on turning.
He has a long history of defending causes, some absolutely rightly so. My issue is that the rhetoric he employs to do so is one of discussion and engagement, but the behaviour is one of recalcitrance and ideological purity: his time as Labour leader bears that out. He's not alone in this of course, but sadly he is held up as a beacon, where as others are dismissed a priori (often rightly so, e.g. most Toriy cabinet members and PMs!). It's like pretending that to invert a paradigm is the same as smashing it.
Fwiw for me, I'd love it if Corbyn were actually the man he is painted to be. But he isn't. Even if he was, I genuinely think he's too inept and flat out limited, imaginatively, to pursue his goals with any chance of success.
What's surprising that people who don't like Corbyn would prefer someone more to the center of the party? And what's so bad about Jess Phillips that you'd rather die than see her in Corbyn's place?
Personally I advocate for Lammy and Phillips as people I think would be better leaders. Corbyn isn't wrong when he says that the EU isn't the only issue facing the UK right now, and I broadly agree with his stances on most other issues, but he's completely mishandled what is clearly the most important issue facing the UK right now. Trying to please everyone and stay on the fence as long as he has, has proven to be without a doubt the absolute wrong choice. I think he'd have been a fine leader, were it not for Brexit.
But sadly, we aren't in that time line.
Because it says that as much as they claim it's his character or actions - it isn't. It's that he's too left wing. Whereas having someone who isn't a centre politician has been incredibly popular amongst Labour members and young activists. Replacing him with a moderate will do worse for the party than Corbyn ever has.
Jess Phillips is a fucking dickhead.
I personally think a decade of austerity is more important than Brexit, and I say that as someone who is unequivocally remain.
I don't think Lammy or Phillips are centrists in any sense of the definition unless we're saying they're in the center of the party.
Well that tells me nothing.
Right, and if Brexit hadn't happened we'd agree. But it did and it has become the pressing issue right now and in the near future. Thinking otherwise hasn't seen Corbyn succeed at furthering his policy goals.
Being the temp PM for a hot minute being more important to him than stopping No Deal would be about the most Corbyn thing ever.
Now imagine the effects of austerity doubled for a couple of decades. That is the likely effect of no-deal Brexit.
Good then that Labour want to stop No Deal AND Austerity, they also happen to be by far the largest opposition.
Let's hope that the smaller parties want to avoid No Deal and back Labour, and the desire to inflict poverty doesn't stop them from doing that.
They're centre by all senses of the definition. I like Lammy a lot but his voting record isn't brilliant. And as much as the media and seemingly lots of people want to bygones be bygones for the Iraq war - I won't and never will. A million dead Iraqis.
The party has loads of younger, left wing MPs (and candidates e.g. Faiza Shaheen) who I'd gladly see replace Corbyn if it came to it. Keep Blairites out, they can go set up their own party by all means.
Phillips is power hungry and more concerned with her own career than helping people.
Right I agree it's a pressing issue, although the general consensus seems to be having another referendum - which I agree with - but if many of the causes of people voting leave aren't addressed (i.e. austerity) they'll just vote leave again and give the tories a stronger mandate.
I know it's a pressing issue. But over 200,000 people are already dead and many more won't even survive that long. No deal is exactly what Labour have been trying to prevent, I'm not sure why you've thrown that as some sort of gotcha.
Both haven't rebelled and vote with the party the vast majority of the time. I'm not sure what more I can say on that matter. Neither are pro austerity.
You can't exactly logically claim there are more important issues than Brexit like austerity when Brexit will make that look like child's play. It is like claiming a flood is a more important issue than a tsunami. Everything bad in the UK is going to be multiplied by Brexit, so it is quite irresponsible to say there is something more important.
So responding to a post about people brushing over the Iraq war, you do just that. Cheers for the example I guess!
This. Not only will the effects be made much worse, but it will also utterly damage the tools the UK has to combat the effects of austerity.
It's not just their vote (in the case of Lammy) for the war, it's their continued position - and votes, that it shouldn't be investigated. I want those responsible for warcrimes to be held accountable by our MPs. The UK is nearly as bad as the States for this.
Worse, in many ways I'd say, looking at the lack of investigations into what happened with the 2016 referendum, outside interference and campaign finance violations. I won't argue with people who want what you want when it comes to the Iraq war.
All I wanted to know was why you didn't like Phillips. You've given me a plain answer, and raised a point I'm not going to defend her over, so thank you.
A more moderate Labour Leader could be a good thing imo if they are actually going to unify the party. They would have less baggage than Corbyn, they would seem moderate to the general public than Corbyn immediately even if the policies don't change but unifying the party must mean keeping most of Corbyn's policies and having some prominent figures of the left in cabinet like John McDonnell staying in No.11.
Also whoever is chosen needs to be able to work well with Momentum, the Brexit Party and the Leave Campaign had very good social media presence and used it effectively to win campaigns. Momentum was pretty good in 2017 and will be important in the next GE.
Also whoever is chosen needs to be able to work well with Momentum, the Brexit Party and the Leave Campaign had very good social media presence and used it effectively to win campaigns. Momentum was pretty good in 2017 and will be important in the next GE.
Why do all xenophobes etc all look like snakes in human skin.
Edit of course he's wearing a gillet
Edit of course he's wearing a gillet
The insanity that would be an election in the first week of November after crashing out. I hope we don't see anything close to it.
I can't speak for Git, but personally I do see 200,000 dead and far more living in poverty as a number one crisis.
Also, I dispute your ordering. It's the last 10 years of austerity that led to Brexit, not Brexit that is going to lead to austerity. A number one priority has to be to stop austerity and the associated deaths and child poverty, otherwise Brexit and associated problems are only going to be multiplied. You can't afford to ignore and compromise on the poverty that is rife in this country, otherwise Brexit is going to look twice as bad in a few years. The tools we have to stop Brexit will be worse.
Right now the imminent danger is No Deal Brexit. If you want to stop austerity, you've got to get that out of the way first. We all know that the rich won't be the ones who carry the economic effects of No Deal. We also all know what the Tories are going to do with more control, and I think we can agree that we need to do whatever we can to stop it. Ultimately we're talking about the same people being put in direct harm.
Again with the "it's all your fault" rhetoric - who do they think they are fooling?
All Brexiters who think the EU is simultaneously about to crumble at any minute and is also too strong and bullying the plucky UK. All the dumbfucks who voted leave essentially who if the country manages to survive no deal will still bang on about 'Project Fear'. Fuck the lot of them.
You know what will be funny, no matter what happens, the UK has to knock the EU door and in perhaps the weakest position possible, get a good deal from the EU after talking constant shit about them, acting like a bunch of pricks. It will be sobering, nothing has changed so to speak.
UK "Hello"
EU "39 billion"
UK "Excus...
EU "Agree to these common rules and regulations"
UK "Buuuu...."
EU "Sign here"
UK "I don't understa.
EU "Anything else I can help you with today?"
UK "Security, fishing, travel I suppose"
EU "Great, just sign here to join this group, enjoy your stay"
UK "Hello"
EU "39 billion"
UK "Excus...
EU "Agree to these common rules and regulations"
UK "Buuuu...."
EU "Sign here"
UK "I don't understa.
EU "Anything else I can help you with today?"
UK "Security, fishing, travel I suppose"
EU "Great, just sign here to join this group, enjoy your stay"
A little earlier in this topic, it showed how much the average Brit would lose under a no-deal Brexit. It would push a couple of million extra people to poverty.
No Deal Brexit could even lead to a long term rise of heart attacks due to the more limited availablity of fruit.
I guess someone is going to have to decide sooner rather than later if no-deal remains the legal default during an election. It seems unlikely tbh but this is the sort of thing that ends up in the supreme court.
This made me chuckle. A more likely, and shorter-term, cause of increased heart attacks will come from the collapse of small businesses - any small low-margin business that relies heavily on imports (like mine, and about another 300 just within a mile of where I'm sitting - probably more than 100,000 in England) is at extremely high risk of failure, leaving unsold stock, no income, unsatisfied mortgage payments etc etc.
Not the Supreme Court's call. It is the EU's call, and the extension was granted only up to end October.
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Why do all xenophobes etc all look like snakes in human skin.
Edit of course he's wearing a gillet
At least it gave us this stroke of genius from the ever reliable Steve "Condom Cameron" Bell: Cummings as a Mars Attacks alien:
I find it highly unlikely that the Supreme Court are going to try and say Article 50 needs to be revoked by default during an election.
Article 50 is written pretty clearly.
UK supreme court has no jurisdiction.
Worse than expected. Q3 should be bad aswell.
European economies are about to get fucked.
edit: Pound is getting hammered too.
Not revoked but that the PM would have to seek an extension like last time so an election could be held.
I think he means that Boris would need to ask for an extension first, not that the EU would give one.
I don't even know if a court can force a PM to do something like that and if there's the time for it to happen once he makes a move.
^i see he just answered.
Well, that just proves we need to get on with it, not enough austerity, labours fault somehow. We must cut taxes, reduce regulations, standards, safeguards, workers rights but most importantly optimism will see us through. Turbo charge those boot straps and polish my boots peasants.
Britannia Unchained written by Priti Patel, Elizabeth Truss, Kwarsi Kwarteng and Dominic Raab.
"The British are among the worst idlers in the world. We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor. Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music".
I'm not sure why they are so optimistic either.
Even if that statement were absolutely 100% true in terms of populations and relative amibition, one does have to ask the question 'why is this a bad thing?'
Retiring early is fucking ace for the individual if they can do it. Working lowest hours too, providing it's by choice.
Retiring early is fucking ace for the individual if they can do it. Working lowest hours too, providing it's by choice.
They want to retire early, get a cushy board room, consultant job not us plebs who they need to maximise their profits. Anyway, why does leaving the EU matter to achieve that, makes no sense unless you want to screw people over....oh.
I wonder how many UK companies are going to get bought by foreign investment/owners. They must be circling waiting for the pound to fall further and make their move.
I wonder how many UK companies are going to get bought by foreign investment/owners. They must be circling waiting for the pound to fall further and make their move.
The problem with this line of thinking is that for huge parts of the country, they don't think things can get any worse after the hit the last decade has had on real term incomes and punishments given to those on welfare. I agree that things will get worse after brexit, but it doesn't work to just state this without giving the people who are suffering any kind of commitment that it will get better afterwards - and this is one reason why the Leave campaign won in the first place. They made promises of things being better (even if they were total lies), rather than just more of the same shit that the recession + Tory economics had given the country for ~9 years
Agree, I still get mad about the Marine A stuff. Absolutely disgusting that people defended a war criminal, and the culture of defending the troops against any and all crimes that they might and have committed is one of the worst things we seem to have started to copy from the USA
God forbid people would want to enjoy their lives and want to retire earlier than sixty fucking seven years old
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