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BREXIT |OT2.0| No thread is better than a bad thread

Oct 25, 2017
2,948
The Ocean
Oct 25, 2017
2,811
Chesire, UK
I mentioned it because as I said, many on "the left" (and I hate saying this because I identify myself as somebody on the left) get very passionate about the Iraq war and calling everybody a war criminal, but don't share that same outrage on other internal issues. The Iraq war is a great talking point to criticise New Labour and "The Blairites" but the Anti Semitism debate is a good point to criticise Corbyn, but we downplay that issue because we like Corbyn and he can do no wrong.
Considering the Iraq War an "internal Labour issue" says it all.

Conflating support for a war which killed hundreds of thousands of civilians with a failure to address some dodgy Facebook posts made by a handful of nobodies is obscene.
 
Oct 31, 2017
2,090
Considering the Iraq War an "internal Labour issue" says it all.

Conflating support for a war which killed hundreds of thousands of civilians with a failure to address some dodgy Facebook posts made by a handful of nobodies is obscene.
Yeah, who gives a shit about half a million dead Iraqis and the destabalisation of the entire region? Psh, water under the bridge
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,056
I'm pretty sure people would be hard pressed to defend "fuck over kids with special needs" as a matter of national importance
Not when you put it like that. When you continuously make the decision to cut funding to councils under the banner of austerity and how everyone should tighten your purse, and there you go, that's one of the results.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,515
This should be a national scandal but it isn't cos Britain is obsessed with Brexit.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...school-funding-children-parents-a8867581.html

How can one of the richest nations in the world make the choice to treat the most vulnerable of society so callously?
Tories.

Honestly though, this one's a more fundamental issue than Brexit. The education sector have screamed ever since Gove was the education secretary that the Tories do not care for children's education - especially special needs - but they weren't held to account for it. The Conservatives just give the usual lies on how they're doing the most ever and sail on through.

Though maybe more fitting for the UK politics thread
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,041
I mean... why would they? Having a good education makes children better citizens capable of doing informed decisions on who to vote for.
The worse education, the better chances they'd vote for the tired-of-experts-stiff-upper-lip right wing, and not question the due democratic process of power.
 
Oct 27, 2017
620
Looking at the colour difference between his head and the hand he's resting it on, he's either choking, fresh off an extended cricket match, or needs to see a doc for blood pressure pills. Was he always like that? His birdnest hairstyle probably wiped that from my memory...

And yeah. Of all the times the world would have appreciated an "early accidental 'submit click'", this would have been it.
 
Apr 21, 2018
32
no-one being willing to pay the political cost of either delivering or cancelling brexit is one of the enduring themes of brexit’s descent into a beckett play
 
Oct 25, 2017
807
Shocked that Boris would let someone else do the hard work before stepping in to blame them for fucking it up.

The EU elections will be interesting. I think the biggest issue is turnout. I think conservatives and labour votes will be lower than the polls claim, since people won't turn up to vote for their confused and/or milquetoast positions on the EU. The big question is whether leavers will be motivated enough to vote, and whether remainers will turn up and who they'll vote for.

D'Hondt could damage the remain vote if UKIP and Brexit have slightly larger individual vote shares than LD/GRN/CHUK. They'll all be individually below the PR threshold but UKIP and Brexit get the "biggest remainder".
This will mean that smaller regions go more brexity and larger ones go more remain.
My region (Yorks/Humber) should go 2Lab/1Con/1Bre/1UKIP/1LD based on national vote polls. Bigger constituencies will add GRN and CHUK MPs, then an extra Con and Brexit (so 2L/2C/2Bre/1UKIP/1LD/1GRN/1CHUK for the biggest South East region).

The swing to pro- or anti-Brexit parties will largely be due to rounding errors.
But hey, if government, parliament and the people can't decide - why not let maths take over!

*Morgan Freeman Narrator Voice* But even the cold hard rules of mathematical logic were unable to find a solution for this particular problem, and as the leaves began to fall from the trees, everything looked much the same as it was back in March.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,095
So, is everybody on a break until 25th of October now?
Nah, I think we'll have fun once the campaigning for the European Parliament elections begins in earnest. I'm really looking forward to how this will look like in the UK.

Fun fact: if everything stays the same as 2014, the UK will be the first major country to hold European elections and the only one besides The Netherlands doing so on Thursday. All other major countries will vote on Sunday, the rest mostly on Saturday or Sunday except for Ireland (Friday) and the Czech Republic (Fri + Sat).
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,041
I was expecting the last one to be about how drought and aging population are a great combination when you invest in mortuary services.
They're saturday morning cartoon vilains.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,211
They're a disaster capitalist family. Their dad quite literally wrote the book on it.
Yeah and public still can't see it. Really is give them someone to look down on, hate and they won't notice you picking their pocket.

What a vile family.

Anyone else notice leave politicians are really against EU elections, they would get us out before them if they could for some reason, worried?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,161
Lovely people, the Rees-Moggs:

All completely foul and none of it is in the least bit surprising if you know anything about their father and his views.


How to explain Jacob Rees-Mogg? Start with his father's books [The Guardian, Nov 2018]

That verdict is now beginning to seem premature. In August, Alastair Campbell, Blair’s former right-hand man and a prominent remainer, wrote about The Sovereign Individual at length on his blog. He called it “the most important book you have never heard of”. “After reading it,” he intriguingly claimed, “it is easy to see” why Jacob “so loves Brexit, and the chaos and disorder, and opportunities for disaster capitalism and super-elitism, that it may provide.”
Across the Atlantic, the book has become associated with another disruptive tendency in modern politics, the rightwing libertarians of Silicon Valley. From the start, the book was better received in the US, where futurology and polemics against the state are more mainstream genres. In 2011, almost a decade and a half after the book’s publication, Rees-Mogg was still being invited there to talk about it, to students at Stanford University, one of Silicon Valley’s prime recruiting grounds. In 2014, Peter Thiel, the intellectually restless, fiercely conservative co-founder of PayPal, told the business magazine Forbes that The Sovereign Individual had influenced him more than any other book.
the full article is well worth the read.
 

plagiarize

Skinny Dipping in Cauldron Lake
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,645
Cape Cod, MA
It's difficult for me to blame people for supporting the Iraq war back in 2003 or whenever. I did.

I don't know what David Lammy knew then. I don't know that he *didn't* have more information than I had, more clearly painting the whole thing as the clearly terrible thing we have come to learn it was. And for people who were right back then, well, that's something I think they can rightly point to when talking about their judgement.

But some of us believed the lies, and I don't think that should assign us to the scrap heap for the rest of time.

I had too much faith in the leadership at the time. I learnt and grew. I would hope that wouldn't be disqualifying.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,342
It's difficult for me to blame people for supporting the Iraq war back in 2003 or whenever. I did.

I don't know what David Lammy knew then. I don't know that he *didn't* have more information than I had, more clearly painting the whole thing as the clearly terrible thing we have come to learn it was. And for people who were right back then, well, that's something I think they can rightly point to when talking about their judgement.

But some of us believed the lies, and I don't think that should assign us to the scrap heap for the rest of time.

I had too much faith in the leadership at the time. I learnt and grew. I would hope that wouldn't be disqualifying.
This kind of sentiment is fine but it has to be married to some kind of reparations, financial and otherwise. You can't just say "oh we were mislead". It needs introspection on a national scale, it needs mechanisms to stop it happening again and above all else, what was broke needs fixing.

This is why it rings hollow when people say they didn't know, plenty of us knew at the time and still many hadn't learned when the issue of Syria came to the fore.

Lammy seems one of the better sort but I need a lot more than what I've seen to feel comfortable he wouldn't have similar lapses in judgement in those situations. His response to Grenfell was inspiring, I'll give him that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
807
Interesting that they put the birth of democracy as 1707, presumably because of the Acts of Union with Scotland that created the UK. An act that was chiefly concerned with securing English dominance over Scotland and creating a united throne to prevent any potential civil wars if a pretender claimed one throne but not the other.
Of course, the acts were opposed by the vast majority of the Scottish people. The act only went through because the Scottish state was deeply in debt and England basically bribed enough indebted Scottish lords to vote it through. Then this newly democratic UK had to impose martial law in Scotland to stop all the rioting.
I suppose Brexit is in keeping with this tradition of "democracy".
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,211
I think secretly the US wants the UK in the EU rather than out, yeah there is some profiteering opportunists who want to feast on the UK and sell outs in the UK willing to make it happen but long term the UK being in the EU is more useful to the US, probably why Obama threw his weight in before the referendum, strategically you want the lapdog and it's influence within the EU because it isn't going anywhere and will be a competitor, ally of sorts and you need that so called special relationship to have some use and the UK being at the EU table in the UK and integrated is ideal to the US.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,284
I think secretly the US wants the UK in the EU rather than out, yeah there is some profiteering opportunists who want to feast on the UK and sell outs in the UK willing to make it happen but long term the UK being in the EU is more useful to the US, probably why Obama threw his weight in before the referendum, strategically you want the lapdog and it's influence within the EU because it isn't going anywhere and will be a competitor, ally of sorts and you need that so called special relationship to have some use and the UK being at the EU table in the UK and integrated is ideal to the US.
I don't think the Trump administration thinks in those long term soft power goals.