BREXIT |OT2.0| No thread is better than a bad thread

DiscountBeds

Alt account
Banned
May 6, 2019
109
Sorry but I can’t turn a blind eye to someone’s appalling lifetime voting record just because they support a second referendum.
 

Tzarscream

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,337
It must be nice for you to be able to relegate the Austerity measures that have killed tens of thousands of people to a pleasant disagreement.

Insisting that Brexit is the only issue that should matter to anyone is myopic in the extreme. Not everyone has the luxury of such blindness to the social and economic injustices being perpetrated against them.

The Tories responsible, whatever party they might currently represent, deserve every last bit of bile they get.
I could argue the fact you think anything progressive can be achieved before resolving Brexit is delusional and arrogant.
 

Timmm

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,596
Manchester, UK
Man, never has the phrase:

The Right looks for converts, the Left looks for traitors

Rang so true than with this thread's opinion on the Change UK Party.
The rhetoric around Brexit shows that idea for the nonsense it is though - given Leave's frequent use of "traitor" or "enemy of the people" type rhetoric, while the leave side are frantically scrambling to prove enough people have switched sides now to justify a 2nd referendum
 

Tzarscream

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,337
Sorry but I can’t turn a blind eye to someone’s appalling lifetime voting record just because they support a second referendum.
Politics is inherently tactical, if you want to win you have to play the game, and the game right now is over a single issue. There can be no discussions on the deeper issues in our society without first solving this issue and that is just a cold unfortunate fact.

If Brexit wasn't happening, I wouldn't vote for a Change UK type party, but Brexit is happening and if you're invested in having it go a certain way you need to play the game.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
London
Politics is inherently tactical, if you want to win you have to play the game, and the game right now is over a single issue. There can be no discussions on the deeper issues in our society without first solving this issue and that is just a cold unfortunate fact.

If Brexit wasn't happening, I wouldn't vote for a Change UK type party, but Brexit is happening and if you're invested in having it go a certain way you need to play the game.
It's pretty clear by now that ChUK is more of a distraction than any use on the EU issue, they had a brief window but the libdems are where it is at for pro EU centrists.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,721
Insisting that Brexit is the only issue that should matter to anyone is myopic in the extreme. Not everyone has the luxury of such blindness to the social and economic injustices being perpetrated against them
Sure, if austerity was half as damaging as Brexit could be. Someone could eliminate all taxes for poor people and still damage them with Brexit.
 

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,093
I'm kind of loving but not really at all how everybody is already scratching Labour from the list of Remain parties.

Both Corbyn and his strategy are indefensible.
 

Garfield

Member
Oct 31, 2018
911
Reading the bbc I can not help think these ‘talks’ are a smoke screen, and neither party wants to be the one to pull out, there is universal agreement from both Labour and Tory backbencher that the talks should stop...

Graham Brady has written to the PM saying don’t agree to anything that can not be undone with a new leader.
 

cabot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,367
Glasgow, Scotland
Reading the bbc I can not help think these ‘talks’ are a smoke screen, and neither party wants to be the one to pull out, there is universal agreement from both Labour and Tory backbencher that the talks should stop...

Graham Brady has written to the PM saying don’t agree to anything that can not be undone with a new leader.
The talks have been a smoke screen from the beginning, any actual compromise on either side would result in a split.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,239
The Ocean
I don't expect to reach these people and I don't give much of a shit about trying. Reason obviously isn't going to cut it.
I hate to say it but what the U.K. needs is to get its bottom smacked hard in some kind of engagement so these people realise it’s not a superpower in armed conflict. That night give perspective. Though without loss of life. Maybe their big carrier loses power at sea and needs towed home by foreign aid or something.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,194
I hate to say it but what the U.K. needs is to get its bottom smacked hard in some kind of engagement so these people realise it’s not a superpower in armed conflict. That night give perspective. Though without loss of life. Maybe their big carrier loses power at sea and needs towed home by foreign aid or something.
Unfortunately history tells us that wont work either. It will just create the "stabbed in the back" feelings, where a group of people will be identified as the reason we lost and be blamed for all our ills.
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,583
A moderate tory that is working with centre left ex-Labour members.

The three tories that broke off did so because they were so disgusted with the pandering to the far right the tory party was doing. A lot of tories are disgusted but still remain part of the party, at least these three had the backbone to leave and try something new.

I disagree with those tories on many things, practically all economic policy and austerity etc, but Britain is now dealing with a single issue and I can't be too damning on a group of people that got so sick of their parties being ambiguous on their Brexit stance and plan that they left to come out hard on remain.

The hatred in this thread for them is unbelievable sometimes, they are a pro-remain party. Yes there are many things to disagree and have criticisms over but there is a Zealot like nature to the shade thrown at them in this thread and some of you act just like the other side in reverse.

This is turning in to a rant now but imma keep on going: Also I am getting tired of the writing off of Tony Blair now, if you look at his most recent Sky News interview the man speaks sense. I get the Iraq war, and fully agree with the criticisms, but does that mean that he is now wrong about everything or that the centre left can have no good ideas?

I left the UK in 2015, met my Polish partner in New Zealand that year and lived in Poland from the end of 2015. I was unable to vote in the Ed Milliband Gen election, the Brexit Referendum and now these coming elections. I am now back in New Zealand with my partner desperately trying to get a working visa so we can actually live in a place where we can both have a life.

For me, Brexit is critically important, if worse goes to worse and there's no deal and the NZ plan fails we are fucked.

When I look at interviews/parliament with Corbyn, with Alaister Campbell, Blair, Brown, Soubry, Ummuna, Owen Jones, Theresa May, Farage, Lib Dems etc. The sensible answers and solutions and clear plans come from the centre left and the centre ground. I haven't got time to trust in Corbyn's "Magic" or what Labour may or may not do.

In that respect, despite the many faults and ghosts of the centre left and British centre ground - this is where the answers are coming from and I think the level of hatred Change UK get in this thread is childish and at times offensive and ultimately destructive.

After Brexit, my voting and support patterns will surely change, particularly if we avoid Brexit, but right now there is only one issue: Brexit.

End of Rant, apologies, that has been 3 years in the making.
If it takes you 3 years to take a shite, you really need to see a doctor
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,066
Chesire, UK
Reading the bbc I can not help think these ‘talks’ are a smoke screen, and neither party wants to be the one to pull out, there is universal agreement from both Labour and Tory backbencher that the talks should stop...

Graham Brady has written to the PM saying don’t agree to anything that can not be undone with a new leader.
They've been a smokescreen since day two, after both sides realised the other wasn't going to budge.

They're designed to buy May time and allow Corbyn to look constructive rather than either of them actually having to ante up.

Of course it hasn't worked and both parties are taking a bit of a hammering (The Tories taking it far worse since Labour's "constructive ambiguity" is priced-in at this point but May working with Corbyn is both new and beyond the pale for many Tories) but neither can back out now as they'll be painted as the ones who made the talks break down and ruined Brexit or some such shit.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,630
I’ve missed listening to James on LBC.

He’s bloody fantastic when he’s chatting with Brexit fans.

Completely dismantles a lot of their arguments.
 

kradical

Member
Oct 25, 2017
786
I left the UK in 2015, met my Polish partner in New Zealand that year and lived in Poland from the end of 2015. I was unable to vote in the Ed Milliband Gen election, the Brexit Referendum and now these coming elections. I am now back in New Zealand with my partner desperately trying to get a working visa so we can actually live in a place where we can both have a life.

For me, Brexit is critically important, if worse goes to worse and there's no deal and the NZ plan fails we are fucked.
I'm sure all the people unable to feed their families without the help of food banks thanks to the policies of Heidi Allen and her compatriots will be happy to put all that aside to make it easier for you and your girlfriend to jet set around the world.

EDIT: Change UK, literally the party of the 1%
 

DiscountBeds

Alt account
Banned
May 6, 2019
109
I honestly think that if you told remainers that we can leave with a deal that means they get to keep their EU passport, a significant proportion would switch to backing a deal rather than risking it in a referendum.
 

Koukalaka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,649
Scotland
I honestly think that if you told remainers that we can leave with a deal that means they get to keep their EU passport, a significant proportion would switch to backing a deal rather than risking it in a referendum.
That's effectively a Norway-style arrangement - although tbf if that was the plan from the start I actually think there would have been less opposition.

The head-bangers obviously would have moaned about it, but they wouldn't have had months and years to entrench opposition by saying dumb shit like "Article 24" again and again.
 

Zastava

Member
Feb 19, 2018
875
London
I honestly think that if you told remainers that we can leave with a deal that means they get to keep their EU passport, a significant proportion would switch to backing a deal rather than risking it in a referendum.
Yes, because it's all about easy holidays for those middle class elitist remainers eh?

This sneering crap is as bad as the fbpe lot, just in reverse. Who the fuck were the 2/3rds of Tory shire voters who voted leave if not comfortably middle class? Brexit wasn't a working class revolt you know, despite what leavers might try to portray it as.
 

peekaboo

Member
Nov 4, 2017
267
I'm sure all the people unable to feed their families without the help of food banks thanks to the policies of Heidi Allen and her compatriots will be happy to put all that aside to make it easier for you and your girlfriend to jet set around the world.
I normally like and agree with your posts but this is a bit harsh, simplistic and uncalled for. You don't know their personal circumstances and the poster clearly has a lot of pent-up feelings of helplessness.

If I had chosen to emigrate with my partner to a non-EU country I can see why this uncertainty would create a lot of anxiety and being completely honest if the safety of having a place to fall back on if my plans abroad failed (what you unfairly describe as 'jet setting around the world') was to compete with the thought of many people having to use food banks I'd probably vote for whoever benefitted me in this instance. Trying to attach shame to it is a bit below the belt.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
3,122
I'm sure all the people unable to feed their families without the help of food banks thanks to the policies of Heidi Allen and her compatriots will be happy to put all that aside to make it easier for you and your girlfriend to jet set around the world.

EDIT: Change UK, literally the party of the 1%
The difference between the EU election poll vs Westminster is interesting - for EU Labour shrinks because people want to underline their brexit position, but for the parliamentary elections we're still static.

I'm probably going green for the EU election but happily for Labour at the next general. I wonder how many are taking that approach, versus the reverse of voting for Nigel for the EU than Labour nationally. Though the logic there doesn't seem sound.
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,152
The difference between the EU election poll vs Westminster is interesting - for EU Labour shrinks because people want to underline their brexit position, but for the parliamentary elections we're still static.
It's strange that the LibDem don't seem to shrink in that logic though. It's bigger than Brexit+UKIP here!
 

kradical

Member
Oct 25, 2017
786
I normally like and agree with your posts but this is a bit harsh, simplistic and uncalled for. You don't know their personal circumstances and the poster clearly has a lot of pent-up feelings of helplessness.

If I had chosen to emigrate with my partner to a non-EU country I can see why this uncertainty would create a lot of anxiety and being completely honest if the safety of having a place to fall back on if my plans abroad failed (what you unfairly describe as 'jet setting around the world') was to compete with the thought of many people having to use food banks I'd probably vote for whoever benefitted me in this instance. Trying to attach shame to it is a bit below the belt.
It was harsh, probably too harsh, and I genuinely feel for him and have people in my family in a similar situation, but it was in the context of him chastising people in this thread for not supporting Change UK and people like Heidi Allen. Both things are shitty, but I'm not going to support a bunch of ex-tories who have caused so much pain and devastation to this country just because they are pro remain, especially when there are a bunch of better pro-remain options to choose from who aren't directly responsible for the vicious cruelty of austerity.
 

plagiarize

Untethered
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,995
Cape Cod, MA
Ah yes. World War 2. When the UK single handedly beat the coalition of 27 EU member nations in armed combat. Those sure were the days we all remember.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,194
Yes, because it's all about easy holidays for those middle class elitist remainers eh?

This sneering crap is as bad as the fbpe lot, just in reverse. Who the fuck were the 2/3rds of Tory shire voters who voted leave if not comfortably middle class? Brexit wasn't a working class revolt you know, despite what leavers might try to portray it as.
Some of the poorest areas of the country voted to remain - places like Brixton. People really like to ignore the fact the leave vote was mostly white, and BAME voters voted strongly to remain.
 

holygeesus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,433
I hate to say it but what the U.K. needs is to get its bottom smacked hard in some kind of engagement so these people realise it’s not a superpower in armed conflict. That night give perspective. Though without loss of life. Maybe their big carrier loses power at sea and needs towed home by foreign aid or something.
I mean, what is your criteria for being considered a superpower? We are a small island but are ranked 5 in the world when it comes to military might? We are also a nuclear weapon state. Size isn't everything.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,990
Some of the poorest areas of the country voted to remain - places like Brixton. People really like to ignore the fact the leave vote was mostly white, and BAME voters voted strongly to remain.
Is Brixton that poor?

I grew up next to Brixton and while it still has a lot of poor areas, its also been going through a lot of gentrification and is nowhere near how it was when i was growing up. Just cant see it being that bad in comparison to most northern (or non London) rural areas.
 

danowat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,011
Ah yes. World War 2. When the UK single handedly beat the coalition of 27 EU member nations in armed combat. Those sure were the days we all remember.
Nah, we just single handedly liberated the whole of Europe, and as such they owe us big time forever and ever and ever, plus 1966, it's coming home etc.
 

Zastava

Member
Feb 19, 2018
875
London
Is Brixton that poor?

I grew up next to Brixton and while it still has a lot of poor areas, its also been going through a lot of gentrification and is nowhere near how it was when i was growing up. Just cant see it being that bad in comparison to most northern (or non London) rural areas.
Parts of it are. That's the thing about London - lots of incredible wealth right next door to incredible poverty.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,990
Parts of it are. That's the thing about London - lots of incredible wealth right next door to incredible poverty.
Dont get me wrong, I appreciate how poor it can be. I grew up in a council flat in Streatham Hill and had family in Brixton so i know what its like.

Just in the bigger discussion of poorest areas i wouldnt have thought Brixton would have come into in comparison to a lot of northern areas etc.

Doesnt take away from how bad it is for many in Brixton though of course, just me being nit picky/wondering if there were stats for this argument.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,239
The Ocean
I mean, what is your criteria for being considered a superpower? We are a small island but are ranked 5 in the world when it comes to military might? We are also a nuclear weapon state. Size isn't everything.
The imperialist attitude of sabre rattling needs to stop - the UK rabble rouse with enough gusto that it feeds into the local media. You'd still think Basil Fawlty levels of farce was representative of most of the Brexit supporting parts of the country these days.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,194
Is Brixton that poor?

I grew up next to Brixton and while it still has a lot of poor areas, its also been going through a lot of gentrification and is nowhere near how it was when i was growing up. Just cant see it being that bad in comparison to most northern (or non London) rural areas.
Coldharbour Ward is in the top 10% of deprived areas of the UK. Whilst Brixton town centre and some of the housing areas adjacent to it have massively gentrified, you still have Southwyck House, Tulse Hill, Myatts Fields and all the other estates nearby that are still unfortunately areas of massive deprivation. Right next to the champagne and fromage shop...
 

Bleu

Member
Sep 21, 2018
446
I mean, what is your criteria for being considered a superpower? We are a small island but are ranked 5 in the world when it comes to military might? We are also a nuclear weapon state. Size isn't everything.
When it comes to have any leverage in a economic agreement with another party, size IS everything. (of your internal market).
In comparison to the EU, the uk is a dwarf. without passporting and customs union a legless one-armed blind dwarf with a hearth murmur.
This is what matters here, and this is what those people don't get.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,990
Coldharbour Ward is in the top 10% of deprived areas of the UK. Whilst Brixton town centre and some of the housing areas adjacent to it have massively gentrified, you still have Southwyck House, Tulse Hill, Myatts Fields and all the other estates nearby that are still unfortunately areas of massive deprivation. Right next to the champagne and fromage shop...
Thats all fair enough, didnt realise it they were rated that low. I mean like i said I grew up in Streatham so know how bad it is in those areas but I just didnt think it ranked that low compared to other areas.

Seeing how much Streatham has been gentrified always makes me sad. Not that i want areas to stay poor but living there for the first 19 years of my life it was always a really poor area for the most part yet now when i go to see my mum i see flats being advertised for £400 per week which is disgusting.
 

Blue Lou

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,097
This is the first time I have seen the Brexit Party logo. It's effective. It's a zoomed in 'EX' from the the word Brexit and it's basically a giant arrow to their box on the postal form.
 

31GhostsIV

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,613
How were the polls for the local elections a couple of weeks ago? I can't find any reference to them online for whatever reason. I'm quite interested to see how they matched up with the final results.

It baffles me that just a couple of weeks ago, the remainers got out and voted and these large swathes of Farage fans either didn't bother, or they voted for remain options instead (?).

Nigel could barely drum up support for his march, yet he we are (as I'm sure I've mentioned before).

The Brexit Party launch was a dud also, with low attendance, yet here we are.

Who's getting polled for this data? Is it exclusively voters from the last EU elections?

Something about The Faraud Party's success really doesn't add up to me. I wouldn't be surprised if TBP didn't have the success they're polling at next week.
 

Jazzy Heck

Member
May 7, 2019
29
How were the polls for the local elections a couple of weeks ago? I can't find any reference to them online for whatever reason. I'm quite interested to see how they matched up with the final results.

It baffles me that just a couple of weeks ago, the remainers got out and voted and these large swathes of Farage fans either didn't bother, or they voted for remain options instead (?).

Nigel could barely drum up support for his march, yet he we are (as I'm sure I've mentioned before).

The Brexit Party launch was a dud also, with low attendance, yet here we are.

Who's getting polled for this data? Is it exclusively voters from the last EU elections?

Something about The Faraud Party's success really doesn't add up to me. I wouldn't be surprised if TBP didn't have the success they're polling at next week.
BXP didn't stand in the locals at all.