BREXIT |OT2.0| No thread is better than a bad thread

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
London
How long until Change UK merge with the LDs? I don't see them making it to 2020 as an independent party.
I think they blew that opportunity, should have used the initial momentum and tried to make it like a fresh start for both parties, now they will just be absorbed by the libdems.

If they don't decide to go it alone and slowly die off as a group.
 

Spaghetti

Member
Dec 2, 2017
2,032
How long until Change UK merge with the LDs? I don't see them making it to 2020 as an independent party.
Merge? Probably won't happen.

The ChUKas have squandered basically any and all warm feelings towards them from the Lib Dems, once it emerged the plan was to kill and eat them. Tables have turned on that one.
 

cabot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,367
Glasgow, Scotland
The real fun would be going to Ruth Davidson and asking her about it.

I'm sure she'll tie herself in knots to get to a conclusion where it's acceptable that the Scottish Tories accept the definition and the UK Party rejects it.
 

solidussnaku

Member
Nov 29, 2017
447
I haven't seen this particular poll, but 25% of Labour voters thinking the party supports remain isn't the same as 25% of Labour voters supporting remain

EDIT: lol

Wheels already falling off the Cuks train.

They have badly, badly misjudged the strength of other parties and the political game of the lib dems.

At this point they might as well become a vessel for the lib Dems.
 

DiscountBeds

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Banned
May 6, 2019
109
I’m far more concerned about the effect it would have on the next election than I am gammons taking to the streets. Although they got an MP murdered last time, so I don’t feel too comfortable being flippant about it.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,839
They'd get a handful of MPs at best. It's one thing doing well in a PR based European election with low turnout, and quite another getting MPs (especially given the complete lack of policies).

Remember, you're talking about Farage. The man who has failed to get elected as an MP SEVEN TIMES.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
London
They'd get a handful of MPs at best. It's one thing doing well in a PR based European election with low turnout, and quite another getting MPs (especially given the complete lack of policies).

Remember, you're talking about Farage. The man who has failed to get elected as an MP SEVEN TIMES.
i think i'd normally agree with you but May is testing the party to destruction on Brexit.
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,574
Farage wants American style health insurance in the UK instead of the NHS. Come on now. Even racist ignorant people aren't going to vote for that in a GE.
 

DiscountBeds

Alt account
Banned
May 6, 2019
109
i think i'd normally agree with you but May is testing the party to destruction on Brexit.
Yeah this is my major concern. This wouldn’t be like UKIP sniffing at their heels as they were prior to the referendum - revoking article 50 could absolutely wreck them. Who knows how that would look in a GE.
 

WorldofMiku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
601
Guys, I'm stuck. I'm from Harrow East, who voted Conservative for the past 3 GEs. I want to vote Labour, but I do not trust this party in to giving us at least a second ref.
Green Party and LD are other options but they never ever came close to winning anything in this area.

I think I answered my own fecking question. Labour. *sigh*
 

Zastava

Member
Feb 19, 2018
875
London
Guys, I'm stuck. I'm from Harrow East, who voted Conservative for the past 3 GEs. I want to vote Labour, but I do not trust this party in to giving us at least a second ref.
Green Party and LD are other options but they never ever came close to winning anything in this area.

I think I answered my own fecking question. Labour. *sigh*
If it's for the Euro elections it's a form of PR. There's still room for tactical voting because of thresholds for MEPs but you're much more free to vote your conscience.
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,824
Sheffield, UK
Guys, I'm stuck. I'm from Harrow East, who voted Conservative for the past 3 GEs. I want to vote Labour, but I do not trust this party in to giving us at least a second ref.
Green Party and LD are other options but they never ever came close to winning anything in this area.

I think I answered my own fecking question. Labour. *sigh*
That doesn't matter for a European election. You're in the London constituency. Aside from Labour and Tories you currently have 1 UKIP and 1 Green MEP.
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,574
The Tory party has been privitising the NHS bit by bit for a decade. Doesn't seem to stop people voting for them
Yeah but it isn't so obvious. Farage saying American Healthcare is a bit different and not quite on the same level as Mr Hunt.

Still, people will probably still vote Tory, maybe not enough to gain power but the Brexit Party is never winning a GE or getting massive slice.
 

*Splinter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,508
Guys, I'm stuck. I'm from Harrow East, who voted Conservative for the past 3 GEs. I want to vote Labour, but I do not trust this party in to giving us at least a second ref.
Green Party and LD are other options but they never ever came close to winning anything in this area.

I think I answered my own fecking question. Labour. *sigh*
This is a European election, so you're in the London constituency.

Looks like both Greens and Lib Dems are viable options (8 MEPs, Green and Lib Dems were 4th and 5th last time).

Edit: slight mistake, Greens got I think the 8th MEP last time, Lib Dems didn't get one.
 
Oct 31, 2017
2,472
Yeah but it isn't so obvious. Farage saying American Healthcare is a bit different and not quite on the same level as Mr Hunt.

Still, people will probably still vote Tory, maybe not enough to gain power but the Brexit Party is never winning a GE or getting massive slice.
I agree that Farage's current bunch won't get anywhere in a GE. They have no policies beyond Brexit.
 
Oct 27, 2017
185
Still fascinated to see what the turnout is for the Euros, all the talk would make you think it will be the largest turnout we've ever had for an EU election but can't help thinking a lot of people wont show up.
 

kradical

Member
Oct 25, 2017
786
Still fascinated to see what the turnout is for the Euros, all the talk would make you think it will be the largest turnout we've ever had for an EU election but can't help thinking a lot of people wont show up.
Previous record high was 38.52% in 2004, so not a huge bar to beat, but who knows. Record low was 24% in 1999. I wouldn't be totally shocked if either record was broken.
 

DiscountBeds

Alt account
Banned
May 6, 2019
109

I do wonder how “clear” the Brexit policies of the other parties would be if they were in opposition, with actual influence on what happens next and the possibility of getting into power in the next GE.
And also how much of the lack of clarity of Labour’s policy is apocryphal FUD - they’re still following the approach agreed at the last party conference, and it’s hardly complicated or unclear - just unpalatable to remainers.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,195
Sorry but claiming the confusion over labour’s policy is just bitter remainers is utter nonsense. We had Keith Starmer saying just a few days ago that any brexit deal would need a confirmatory vote - but that’s not policy at all!

Labour has been all over the place on this. Even for political spectators knowing exactly where they will land is a guessing game. Expecting people to understand a position that was specifically and directly crafted to be as confusing and obfuscating as much as possible is ridiculous.
 

60EffPeeEss

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,700
Just your usual shite politics, isn't it? Try to play as close to the middle as possible to get as wide a net as possible over voters, so you get into power.
 

DiscountBeds

Alt account
Banned
May 6, 2019
109
Sorry but claiming the confusion over labour’s policy is just bitter remainers is utter nonsense. We had Keith Starmer saying just a few days ago that any brexit deal would need a confirmatory vote - but that’s not policy at all!

Labour has been all over the place on this. Even for political spectators knowing exactly where they will land is a guessing game. Expecting people to understand a position that was specifically and directly crafted to be as confusing and obfuscating as much as possible is ridiculous.
He said a compromise deal isn’t going to get through Parliament without a confirmatory deal. That’s not contradictory to the Labour policy, just a reflection of the reality of what is likely to command a majority in the house.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
London
i thought we all knew the labour policy, customs union and a little fairy magic, besides that it's letting the tories fuck themselves up first.
it's not very deep and the new vote stuff doesn't matter until the tories give way over it which will be a bloodbath.
 
Oct 27, 2017
185
And also how much of the lack of clarity of Labour’s policy is apocryphal FUD - they’re still following the approach agreed at the last party conference, and it’s hardly complicated or unclear - just unpalatable to remainers.
The leadership haven't followed the policy, it was supposed to be a process where they accept a good deal can't be achieved, accept an election won't be called, and then back a second vote. But they refuse to to accept either of the first two, hence people are right to be confused because a vote for labour is a vote for a deal (containing who knows what), a general election (fought on who knows what), or a second vote (consisting of who knows what)...

They should be out there now campaigning in Brexit areas for a second vote because that's the only way Brexit will happen, and in remain areas because it's the only way to stop it, that's what alternative dimension Pro-EU Farage would be doing, and he'd be winning.
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,152

I do wonder how “clear” the Brexit policies of the other parties would be if they were in opposition, with actual influence on what happens next and the possibility of getting into power in the next GE.
And also how much of the lack of clarity of Labour’s policy is apocryphal FUD - they’re still following the approach agreed at the last party conference, and it’s hardly complicated or unclear - just unpalatable to remainers.
Who are the 41% who think BREX's policy on Brexit is not clear? And 51% of people think UKIP's policy is not clear?
Is there something I'm missing?
 

DiscountBeds

Alt account
Banned
May 6, 2019
109
The leadership haven't followed the policy, it was supposed to be a process where they accept a good deal can't be achieved, accept an election won't be called, and then back a second vote. But they refuse to to accept either of the first two, hence people are right to be confused because a vote for labour is a vote for a deal (containing who knows what), a general election (fought on who knows what), or a second vote (consisting of who knows what)...

They should be out there now campaigning in Brexit areas for a second vote because that's the only way Brexit will happen, and in remain areas because it's the only way to stop it, that's what alternative dimension Pro-EU Farage would be doing, and he'd be winning.
The entire negotiation process currently happening, as pointless as it’s going to turn out to have been, is still part of the first step of at least attempting to secure a deal that meets their criteria.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
London
Who are the 41% who think BREX's policy on Brexit is not clear? And 51% of people think UKIP's policy is not clear?
Is there something I'm missing?
It's a weird poll, we know the tory policy, they even had an agreement ready to sign.
Shouldn't have a general election after a referendum that split the country.
 

kradical

Member
Oct 25, 2017
786
Who are the 41% who think BREX's policy on Brexit is not clear? And 51% of people think UKIP's policy is not clear?
Is there something I'm missing?
What is their policy on Brexit? Seems they're pretty set on no deal, but that's only the beginning, what happens after that? There's no clarity at all on the actual practicalities.
 

RedSparrows

Member
Feb 22, 2019
871
If any rotten EU types hold up the unpaid £39 billion as a prerequisite of a trade deal it'll be sooooooo unfaaaaaaiirr
 

solidussnaku

Member
Nov 29, 2017
447
Yeah but it isn't so obvious. Farage saying American Healthcare is a bit different and not quite on the same level as Mr Hunt.

Still, people will probably still vote Tory, maybe not enough to gain power but the Brexit Party is never winning a GE or getting massive slice.

Yeah I agree with this, and if they continue down that path as they are, it'll put a hard cap on how much support they get overall.

Even the Tories know they have to fund the NHS JUST enough, whilst privatising parts that arent too critical and people won't miss to much being privatised. The austerity ridden Tories don't allocate 20 bill that easily.

Part of the surge of support and votes lab had in the 2017 GE was due to pledges about the NHS and improving it.