Yes, England, being about 83% of the UK population, only contribute around 87% of the UK's GDP, thus allowing other areas of the UK to be subsidised.
Assholes indeed.
Perhaps they predominantly vote conservative because they are the wealth generators, and want to keep more of the wealth they generate.
That's not to say there aren't some right greedy asshats out there that earn way more than they need and just want more.
I see that after my 3 week Era hiatus you're still living in a fantasy world where there's a Labour majority government.avoid no-deal, have an election and get a chance to kick the Tories out is "nothing of value" to you?
you don't need a majority, you just need to be able to form a government that doesn't include the Tories. I've never once said Labour would win a majority because I don't think they can. Right now there's very few options that lead to an outcome that doesn't involve the Tories dragging us out of the EU without a change in parliament.I see that after my 3 week Era hiatus you're still living in a fantasy world where there's a Labour majority government.
In some ways we need some Conservatives right now, sitting with a majority of 1 MP, there has to be at least 5 tory MP's willing to fall on their sword to stop Boris.you don't need a majority, you just need to be able to form a government that doesn't include the Tories. I've never once said Labour would win a majority because I don't think they can. Right now there's very few options that lead to an outcome that doesn't involve the Tories dragging us out of the EU.
I have had my issues with him myself but this piece on the Lib Dems by Aaron Bastani is really good and mirrors what I have said in this thread previously about them and brexit.
His title is "The Lib Dems CHOSE to NOT Stop No Deal!" (note the tabloid capitalisation..)
He then says he's going to show that they don't want to stop No Deal.
He then even says that the Liberal Democrats don't want to stop Brexit full stop.
All his evidence amounts to is that the Liberal Democrats don't want Corbyn to be Prime Minister.
Duh.
When considering the path of a VONC followed by a temporary/emergency/unity government, it is far more logical to have an interim Prime Minister who is viewed as reasonably neutral and widely respected than one that is clearly not neutral and is widely disliked. That Bastani seems to think a government that would last a few weeks is 'an extension of the idea of starting a new centrist party' makes no sense at all.
More over, and I think people should be more conscious of this, is that the Liberal Democrats are far more effective for the left if they stand in the 'centre' and attract Conservatives away from the insanity going on to the right, than they are propping up Corbyn or edging into Labour's political territory. There are far more Liberal Democrat - Conservative marginals than Liberal Democrat - Labour marginals.
Then he brings up the Customs Union indicative vote. It's a pretty stupid argument for two reasons. First, because the very same graph shows that Labour abstentions was the core reason that a second referendum didn't get across the line, and secondly because the Customs Union suggestion: (1) Lacked detail (2) Is basically still Hard Brexit (3) Doesn't solve the Irish issue like a lot of people seem to believe (4) Very likely would have lost once the mass of Conservative abstentions turned into actual votes should it have gone forward.
I mean for fuck's sake. Bastani's argument here is that "The Liberal Democrats don't want to stop Brexit", which he says while chastising them for not rubber stamping what would, at the time of the referendum, have been considered a Medium to Hard Brexit. And you think this is a good video? Holy shit. It's full on gaslighting. The Liberal Democrats have always been against Brexit. Labour and Corbyn have not. Bastani is a spin merchant, and it falls flat as fuck if you go into his video with an ounce of scepticism.
There are lots of groups and individuals trying to stop no deal/stop hard brexit/stop brexit altogether. They aren't all unified behind one banner because they don't all agree with the means or the ends. It's one thing to wish that they were able to unite better, but doing it while saying "AND IT'S THEIR FAULT" is basically just illustrating why it will never happen.
When considering the path of a VONC followed by a temporary/emergency/unity government, it is far more logical to have an interim Prime Minister who is viewed as reasonably neutral and widely respected than one that is clearly not neutral and is widely disliked
Boris Johnson's controversial enforcer, Dominic Cummings, an architect of Brexit and a fierce critic of Brussels, is co-owner of a farm that has received €250,000 (£235,000) in EU farming subsidies, the Observer can reveal.
The revelation is a potential embarrassment for the mastermind behind Johnson's push to leave the EU by 31 October. Since being appointed as Johnson's chief adviser, Cummings has presented the battle to leave the EU as one between the people and the politicians. He positions himself as an outsider who wants to demolish elites, end the "absurd subsidies" paid out by the EU and liberate the UK from its arcane rules and regulations.
An Observer analysis of Land Registry documents and EU subsidy databases reveals that a farm in Durham, which Cummings jointly owns with his parents and another person, has received roughly €20,000 a year for most of the last two decades.
The revelation opens Cummings up to charges of hypocrisy, as writing on his blog, he has attacked the use of agricultural subsidies "dreamed up in the 1950s and 1960s" because they "raise prices for the poor to subsidise rich farmers while damaging agriculture in Africa".
The website Farmsubsidy.org, which lists EU rural subsidies, reveals that the Durham farm received almost €208,000 between 2000 and 2009, roughly €20,000 a year.
The money was paid out to Cummings's parents and another family member for several reasons including "set aside" – the now abolished and controversial scheme that paid farmers not to grow anything. The programme has been blamed for making it harder for food producers in developing countries to compete with their European counterparts.
A separate website, operated by the Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, confirms further payments of roughly £6,500 each were made to Cummings's parents "for practices beneficial for climate and environment" in 2017 and 2018.
And scrutiny of a third, offline database, reveals that subsidies worth nearly £19,000 were paid out in 2014.
The Liberal Democrats' spokeswoman for young people, Layla Moran, said: "It shows sheer hypocrisy from Cummings that his farm has raked in hundreds of thousands from the 'absurd subsidies' he so often criticises."
Disagree, Corbyn is the leader of the opposition not some politician plucked at random by the libdem's, there's nothing logical about it, it's just what you/they prefer.
I think you're misrepresenting my position, and the Liberal Democrats' for what it's worth.
I don't care if it's Corbyn or one of the other names that has been proposed so long as they can actually get the job done. I think it's more likely to work with someone other than Corbyn, and I think it's cleaner if it's someone other than Corbyn. Regardless, it's going to be enormously tricky to get any of this done. You may think Corbyn is fine, but there are very few Conservatives (if any) that do, and quite a number of members in other parties who don't. This whole concept is that we have a brief government so that we have time to go to the people. It doesn't stop Corbyn from winning the general election (that's Corbyn's job).
I just found the libdems position to be more emotional than logical, calling him a danger to the country and ruling out working with him, the leader of the party you need onside seemed bizarre as a tactic to me.
I don't think it fair to consider it emotional. It's political but fundamentally pragmatic when they want to attract anti Corbyn moderates, of which there are a lot.
I get where you're coming from, but Corbyn squabbling over who gets to be PM in a unity government that last 2-4 weeks seems like a waste of time during a very critical time. In a unity govt everybody need to be happy and a lot of people in govt quite like Yvette Cooper (me included, Yvette for PM woo!) so why not have her?If you are talking strictly about Westminster then this seems PLP level bad politics, Corbyn is the leader of the party he is the leader of the opposition, there is no way to make that work that I can see.
At least dangle the keys to Downing St in front of him, and name a price for it, it just seems easier given the lack of time and numbers in the commons.
To be clear I am basing this of the behaviour of Swinson, I don't know how the rest of the Libdem's feel about her position.
I get where you're coming from, but Corbyn squabbling over who gets to be PM in a unity government that last 2-4 weeks seems like a waste of time during a very critical time. In a unity govt everybody need to be happy and a lot of people in govt quite like Yvette Cooper (me included, Yvette for PM woo!) so why not have her?
Well it'll be great then to see tribal politics leading to a No Deal brexit.If you think you can pull that off in the time given then fair enough, i don't think Corbyn or the left of the party that she ruled out working with will see it as much of a unity government. i just see a very hard brexit coming.
If you think you can pull that off in the time given then fair enough, i don't think Corbyn or the left of the party that she ruled out working with will see it as much of a unity government. i just see a very hard brexit coming.
Well it'll be great then to see tribal politics leading to a No Deal brexit.
Genuinely, if there's an opportunity for a Unity government and Corbyn fucks it then he's dead politically.
Practically, yes.It isn't a gove that's meant to last for more than a month... the single, implicit aim of which, is to delay Brexit to call for a 2nd ref or a real general election. No other policy, goal, mandate or what have you will be of any import, because the unity gove is simply a means to an end, as such, it is COMPLETELY irrelevant who is "leading" it.
you're bemoaning tribal poltics but it's the party with 13 MPs that apparently can't bite their tongue for one second. It's utterly pathetic on their part to expect someone other than the leader of the oppistion to stand in.Well it'll be great then to see tribal politics leading to a No Deal brexit.
Genuinely, if there's an opportunity for a Unity government and Corbyn fucks it then he's dead politically.
you're bemoaning tribal poltics but it's the party with 13 MPs that apparently can't bite their tongue for one second. It's utterly pathetic on their part to expect someone other than the leader of the oppistion to stand in.
About 90% of Lib Dem targets are Tory marginals so it makes sense to attack Labour/Corbyn if you're trying to get those Tory voters back. I don't think anyone really believes there's going to be any sort of unity government anyway so it provides a nice bit of grandstanding.I'm not even arguing about who is best for the job, i'm just talking about the practical issue of setting up another hurdle of insulting the leader of the opposition when the government is full of nutcases about to go kamikaze. i think they believe i'm being pro-corbyn, i'm just talking the politics, the lack of trust, the path of least resistance etc.
. I don't think anyone really believes there's going to be any sort of unity government anyway.
About 90% of Lib Dem targets are Tory marginals so it makes sense to attack Labour/Corbyn if you're trying to get those Tory voters back. I don't think anyone really believes there's going to be any sort of unity government anyway so it provides a nice bit of grandstanding.
Sky news is reporting that government has a list of firms that will be forced into administration due to no deal:
I think he is being given an easy way out by sidelining him, even i can see why he would be reluctant to trust all these people who rule him out. aren't they being just as tribal?
if it doesn't matter who leads it, and the leader will be on a really short leash then why worry about Corbyn being PM, i'm trying to understand the logic.
As opposed to Jo Swinson, who is being rational and flexible by refusing to work with the leader of the largest opposition partyIs the above really more emotional than an insistence from the Labour leadership that it aboslutely must be Corbyn? It amazes me how tolerant people are of Corbyn's stubborness.
A Tory in yellow is still a Tory by any other nameJo Swinson, whose voting record is pro austerity, anti environment, pro tuition fees, even voted for the Bedroom tax, FFS even voted against taxs on banker bonuses, is another fraud in a long line of charlatans among the lib dems. Of course she would never support the only leader possible for a unity government in Corbyn.
The idea that anyone other than the leader of the biggest opposition party would not be the leader of a unity government is just preposterous.
The Lib dems don't care about anything other than getting more power. The reason there will not be a unity government is the lib dems are just a bunch of liars and scam artists. Jo Swinson in particular is just a con woman and a liar. She even voted for the pay cap on public sector workers while voted against an increase on income tax on wealthy people, and even fucking voted against increasing tax on bankers bonuses. Swinson is more Tory than some Tories. She's just another fraud, who hates regular people, doesn't care about Brexit and will say or do anything for power.
Jo Swinson, whose voting record is pro austerity, anti environment, pro tuition fees, even voted for the Bedroom tax, is another fraud in a long line of charlatans among the lib dems. Of course she would never support the only leader possible for a unity government in Corbyn.
The idea that anyone other than the leader of the biggest opposition party would not be the leader of a unity government is just preposterous.
The Lib dems don't care about anything other than getting more power. The reason there will not be a unity government is the lib dems are just a bunch of liars and scam artists. Jo Swinson in particular is just a con woman. She even voted for the pay cap on public sector workers while voted against an increase on income tax on wealthy people, and even fucking voted against increasing tax on bankers bonuses. Swinson is more Tory than some Tories. She's just another fraud.
What s/he said.I feel like somewhere along the road you have completely lost sight of what a unity government is.
What stands in the way of a unity government lead by Corbyn?
Disliked by many independents
Disliked by many of the key Conservative rebels
Disliked by many of the key potential Labour rebels
Disliked by the Liberal Democrats
Disliked by most of the country
What stands in the way of a unity government lead by someone broadly respected (e.g. Clarke, Cooper, Benn, Hermon, Grieve)?
Corbyn and a small group of stubborn Labour MPs
Wake the fuck up. You aren't going to suceed in gaslighting the nation that the Liberal Democrats are responsible.
It's incredible that you would point at the Liberal Democrats as power hungry while defending the notion that Corbyn might point blank refuse to allow anyone but himself to lead a unity government.
Wake the fuck up. You aren't going to suceed in gaslighting the nation that the Liberal Democrats are responsible.
It's incredible that you would point at the Liberal Democrats as power hungry while defending the notion that Corbyn might point blank refuse to allow anyone but himself to lead a unity government.
YesAnd I also said or meant to, that Corbyn is the most natural leader of a unity government, still being the most popular opposition leader, with the most support of any opposition leader. Is any of that wrong?