Have you guys really fully taken back control until you've left the UN?
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BREXIT |OT2.0| A parade of endless victories for Boris Johnson
- Thread starter Uzzy
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Exactly, which is why both Russia and the US have a vested interest in a no deal Brexit, a weaker EU and a weaker UK is win win for the big players.
John Bolton is a warmongering madman.
Shame it doesn't go in to the role The Guardian played in this.
"Hey! We got you first in line for those trade deals...Now get first in line for that coalition against Iran."
And making the UK a vassel state of the US is clearly to the benefit of the US.
Im exaggerating somewhat, but no more so than leavers who like to throw around the 'vassel state' phrase.
Let's be honest here: The UK would happily be first in line in practically any US-led war regardless of whether it is a member of the EU or not...
They just want a political pawn to push around and legitimize their agenda, they'll want us to pull out of the Iran nuclear deal, they'll want us to push back from our relationship with China, I am sure they'll also posture pulling out of the UN and NATO at some point, and will want us to follow suit.
It's been clear for a long time that the FBPE types were just as mental as the brexiteers. These people need to be kept as far away from another referendum as possible because the whole thing is dripping in middle-class privilege that isn't going to convince anyone to change their mind.
Re - that article: while I agree that there is definitely an element of obnoxious remainer types on twitter, I feel that that article is trying extremely hard to make a false equivalency stick. Unless you believe that remain and leave are just equivalent, unimportant opinions, there is a right and a wrong position. Furthermore, the remainers, even the most obnoxious ones, have not been calling their opponents literal traitors to the nation, saboteurs that need to be crushed and absolutely dismissing all evidence to the contrary of their position since day 1. Now, it's certainly true that there is a remain contingent that doesn't want to acknowledge the role played by government policy in creating the conditions for Brexit (lib dems, remain Tory's and elements of the labour party - I'm looking at you), and that is a real problem.
It smacks yet again of groups being more keen on kicking the centre than anyone else, and being conspicuously unable to convince enough people of their own brilliance. Cough cough. Even if some Remainers are of course fucking morons.
"Both sides have their share of twats" is accurate. But only one side's twats are actually dangerous.
Hardcore remain people are dangerous in their own way from the perspective of actually stopping no deal or effectively campaigning for remain to win an eventual referendum. They'd gladly take a no deal vs remain referendum and their totally inability to understand what lead to people voting to leave in the first place could absolutely fuck up any chance remain has of winning.
Just because they're not bloodthirsty ghouls like the hardcore Brexit people doesn't mean they can't be dangerous.
It's nice to see that once again the war that matters is against the people supporting remain and not against the ones who are actually accelerating on the path to No deal.
I guess it's nice to sit on the side waiting for the disaster just to be able to get into power afterwards.
I guess it's nice to sit on the side waiting for the disaster just to be able to get into power afterwards.
This ignores that the tactics and rhetoric from these people actually have a very real chance of damaging the opportunity to remain or at least avoid leaving without a deal. They are not beyond criticism just because they support remain.
At this point the only chance to avoid No Deal is to kick out Boris and get a new government as soon as possible that can ask for an extension and organize elections and/or a new referendum. Anything other than that is rather on the fantasy side.
Edit: also, the more the window of opportunity for that closes, the more people who are afraid about the No Deal outcome will radicalize. You can't expect to have a normal conversation in a burning house.
PaddyPower has us leaving in 2019 at 8/15 and not leaving in 2019 at 7/5. I don't think I'd take either bet.
I believe he's bluffing because nobody can be that much of an idiot, and I don't think Boris is an absolute cretin as he pretends to be.
Although arrogance and a misplaced sense of self-worth have gotten much better men.
Although arrogance and a misplaced sense of self-worth have gotten much better men.
Those so called US think tanks, special interests etc. have had claws in many people who are now in government for a long time, it's disgusting.
It's funny how useless the UK is, everything depends on others, EU sort this out for us, America, please help, everyone else, let's just roll over those EU trade deals, commonwealth who? Are they hoping nobody notices they have no clothes?
I suppose brown envelopes from a few corps, US interest groups to some Tory politicians will do to sell us down the river.
It's insane people are honestly kinda whatever about this mess. We are been taken to the cleaners.
I get that everyone in this thread already knows this, but any time John Bolton is that happy someone is getting completely fucked over. Sorry future junior US :(
A rational person would be surely bluffing in this situation, but then he will be history as soon as he caves in and asks for an extension since his whole leadership campaign was about going out in October, so I'm not so sure. He cares about himself and power even more than May.
Yeah, an excellent article.
I think it's just that the centre aren't very used to being criticised, since this is one of the first times any of them have actually held any firm opinions, or cared strongly about any particular cause.
Is this also your reaction when the left is being given a "kicking" by those in the centre?
Article succinctly describes my problem with many of the FBPE types, who are proud to tell you they were 'apolitical' (lol) before the referendum in 2016. Like, if six years of austerity just flew by you completely unnoticed, I don't really give a fuck what you think about brexit.
Everyone gives everyone a kicking and always have, it's just the centre is just used to having their arses kissed more for the last 30 years or so.
This is exactly why these people are actively dangerous to the prospect of getting a second referendum result which cancels Brexit or at least means we avoid no deal. They just won't engage with the issues which led to it happening in the first place, and without doing that we're pretty much doomed to repeat that result.
That seems to be true for some of the people who were interviewed for the article, who were (by their own admission) not very politically active or interested before Brexit. As a general claim about "the centre" it's of course incorrect.
Yep, this is why putting Brexit ahead of everything else will cause them to fail in the event of another referendum. I think a lot of remainers are uninterested in the causes of people voting to leave, aside from people being lied to.
It's telling that their halcyon beacon of hope is the 2012 olympics. A time when the country was already deep in the shit.
I too wish to condemn people to suffering knowing that they will continue to be in a position to act out in a way which will also cause other people to suffer.
It's so shitty that we're actually putting the safety and lives of people at the border and wider island as a bargaining chip that we hope the EU will fold over.
Which I suppose was what Corbyn and his team was trying to go for with their talking points focusing on austerity in the couple years after the referendum. But it fell on deaf ears around the room, even on the people they were trying to target.
Sometimes, yes. I feel like we'd be better served by some introspection from both left and centre tbqf.
oh good Tom Watson is back. Never one to miss an opportunity to trash his own party.
"This is no time for tribalism but I'm not working with that guy!"
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"Ramsay McWatson" is probably the nastiest thing Labour could call him considering they're referring to Ramsay MacDonald. Labour's first-ever prime minister, but also an adherent to a Conservative-leaning national government when most of the party entered opposition. That's very much a stay-in-your-lane message from Corbyn's office.
Thing is it's neither of those, but is closer to the former than the latter.
MPs are supposed to be elected to do what is best for the country and their constituents, regardless of whether that's what their constituents want (Take Brexit as a prime example of this. MPs should be against it since Brexit is absolutely not best for the country and their constituents, even if their constituency is massively leave supporting)
Yeah, problem is that 80% of MPs are probably 70% Brexit lovers like Hoey.
Because they stand to earn money from it.
MPs should be banned from having any other source of income as they're otherwise just far too open to making decisions based on their personal interests. It's not like an MP salary + expenses isn't more than enough to live very comfortably on.
21 Tory MP's have written to Boris demanding reassurances that he won't go for no deal, and that he recognises the need for compromise. Only source is the Sun, but here's the twitter post about it.
There's a few names missing from the list who have been notably against no deal as well, such as Grieve, Lee and Clarke. So there's numbers there to make life awkward for Boris.
There's a few names missing from the list who have been notably against no deal as well, such as Grieve, Lee and Clarke. So there's numbers there to make life awkward for Boris.
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