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Brexit |OT3| I'd Rather Be Inert in a Ditch

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Streamlined

alt account
Banned
Sep 16, 2019
243
This is the message that’s going to sink the gains they’ve made with remainers. People know they’re not getting in to revoke, so if the only route to remain is a second referendum then people are going to have to vote Labour.
 

Vagabundo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,092
LD really seem to be playing fireball - everyone gets burned. What the hell are they playing at? They could do a confidence and supply arrangement without compromising on their own policies.
 

solidussnaku

Member
Nov 29, 2017
1,217
My opinion of the lib dems has dropped massively the past week, a poor launch, bullshit accusations about sexism, piss poor leaflets and unenforced shit media performances.

Swinston needs to smarten the fuck up, she leads a pragmatic, centrist party with a fucking great usp. How she is on the trail so far is not how you plays the cards they have.

Contrast this shit the lib dems are doing compared to the snp.

That 'categorical' line is fucking dire. Even fucking Corbyn gave a better answer to that type of question when he was asked this morning.

They need to drop the whole we will be a gov line too. Anyone with a brain cell in the UK knows that's a godamn impossibility.
 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,566
Maybe Swinson truly hates Corbyn on a personal level for whatever reason. But these kind of statements will hurt LD a lot if they continue. They really took the idea of being the "Brexit party" of Remain too far.
 

Zastava

Member
Feb 19, 2018
1,294
London
LDs really trying to make it hard for me to continue to advocate tactically voting for them in some constituencies with their arrogant, scorched earth tactics against Labour.
 

SwitchedOff

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,740
Remainers were supposed to be the sensible types but it's clear they've got a bunch of lunatics among them too.
And Swinson appears to be the chief lunatic. Her arrogance and her ego is causing her to say some really stupid things, and that smug smirk she always wears is getting annoying. If I was told that she was also brought in to sabotage the Remain cause I may just believe that person.
 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,566
Lib Dem votes will result in brexit is a ridiculous position 👀👀
I mean it still is a ridiculous position because in the worst case it would result in a lib dem MPs revolt against their leader. But I guess there's no way to avoid the campaign propaganda now. It just makes the whole discussion go to such a low point though. Trump like almost.
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,831
And Swinson appears to be the chief lunatic. Her arrogance and her ego is causing her to say some really stupid things, and that smug smirk she always wears is getting annoying. If I was told that she was also brought in to sabotage the Remain cause I may just believe that person.
Remainers being smug rather than actually trying to deal with people's issues well I never
The only good coming from this is it allows me to be smug af having called out the Lib Dems for this ages ago
Lib Dem dunk smugness on the other hand is A OK with me
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,828
Lib Dems primary directive right now seems to be: be loud, get noticed. They're going for the 'all publicity is good publicity' thing it seems.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,009
London
LDs really trying to make it hard for me to continue to advocate tactically voting for them in some constituencies with their arrogant, scorched earth tactics against Labour.
Number 1 job is getting the tories out, it's getting harder to vote for them and any other (less crucial) general election i don't think i would.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,752
LD really seem to be playing fireball - everyone gets burned. What the hell are they playing at? They could do a confidence and supply arrangement without compromising on their own policies.
There's two possible explanations (and both of them can be true at the same time):

1. Their #1 priority, over and above the results of Brexit (and regardless of how bad those results would be) is to prevent Corbyn becoming PM. In this case, a confidence and supply would be compromising their own policies - specifically the policy that Corbyn shouldn't be PM.

2. Swinson (and presumably also a majority of the senior leadership) genuinely believes that the Lib Dems can form a Lib Dem-led government. In this case, she wouldn't be expecting Lib Dem MPs to vote for a Labour PM - she'd be expecting Labour MPs to vote for her, and she's therefore doing the same thing any major party leader would do before an election (ruling out that party being a junior partner in government).

I suspect it's more the first option than the second.
 

CampFreddie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,078
Categorically refusing to support Corbyn (i.e ruling out not only a coalition but also a confidence/supply) is insane.
I'm going to assume she has the same view regarding supporting Boris (because if supporting Corbyn risks losing some soft Tories, then supporting Boris would definitely lose their Remain voters)

Seriously though, what happens if you have a hung parliament and other parties simply refuse to support each other?
I'm fairly sure that if no-one can become win confidence, parliament just dissolves again automatically and we keep having elections until someone does.

The LD's aren't winning a majority/plurality on their own, so what do they think they can acheive?
 

FliXFantatier

Master of the Reality Stone
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,264
Los Angeles
There's two possible explanations (and both of them can be true at the same time):

1. Their #1 priority, over and above the results of Brexit (and regardless of how bad those results would be) is to prevent Corbyn becoming PM. In this case, a confidence and supply would be compromising their own policies - specifically the policy that Corbyn shouldn't be PM.

2. Swinson (and presumably also a majority of the senior leadership) genuinely believes that the Lib Dems can form a Lib Dem-led government. In this case, she wouldn't be expecting Lib Dem MPs to vote for a Labour PM - she'd be expecting Labour MPs to vote for her, and she's therefore doing the same thing any major party leader would do before an election (ruling out that party being a junior partner in government).

I suspect it's more the first option than the second.
Two would be pretty delusional on their part...
 

Zastava

Member
Feb 19, 2018
1,294
London
On another topic - because talking about the LDs is just depressing me - Paul Krugman has come out with another column talking about why Wall Street and the ultra rich hate Elizabeth Warren so much that I think bears relevance to the dynamics regarding Corbyn here. It's not the tax increases or increased regulation that leads to hysterical posturing about fleeing the country or taking their money elsewhere, though I'm sure they don't want those things. It's that Labour under Corbyn and Warren/Sanders in the US talks about them like they're a problem and they cannot stand it. More than anything else they think their wealth should garner them deference and respect. They want to be treated like modern day royalty, the kings and princes of the 21st century. Anything that threatens this must be destroyed, hence all the outsized fear mongering.

Convinces me more than ever that they need to be taken down a peg or two. This level of thin-skinned, conceited arrogance makes them very dangerous, beyond the damage their obscene wealth and influence already causes.

 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,566
Maybe Swinson is like Farage, trying to build up popularity by crying loud about only one topic in absolute terms without ever solving it. If that's the case, she read the room totally wrong.
 

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,268
Categorically refusing to support Corbyn (i.e ruling out not only a coalition but also a confidence/supply) is insane.
I'm going to assume she has the same view regarding supporting Boris (because if supporting Corbyn risks losing some soft Tories, then supporting Boris would definitely lose their Remain voters)

Seriously though, what happens if you have a hung parliament and other parties simply refuse to support each other?
I'm fairly sure that if no-one can become win confidence, parliament just dissolves again automatically and we keep having elections until someone does.

The LD's aren't winning a majority/plurality on their own, so what do they think they can acheive?
They want to be seen thinking they can achieve it. A lot of what they're doing is trying to present themselves not even as a 'third' party that could prop someone else up in exchange for policy concessions, but as an equally viable option for 10 Downing Street. That they can be Kings, not merely Kingmakers. That they be the ones deferred to and compromised with, rather than having to do the compromising themselves.
 

coconut milk

Banned
Jan 17, 2018
3,102
I don't understand the LD game plan .... Mathematically impossible to get anywhere near a majority so that leaves us with:

1) Corbyn coalition. Depends on how the LD manifesto matches up with Labours, especially on their tax/economic proposals. I don't think McDonnell would want to compromise anymore than he probably already has :D

Would the LDs agree to any of the proposals that look to push more worker owned co-operatives (think Clegg mentioned this years ago, then nothing) or the private property right to buy scheme? How about the increase in income tax that Labour are for?

2) Bo/Jo coalition.

Surely they're smart enough to know that a remain betrayal would kill the LDs for good? Unless Boris promises a 2nd ref with his deal vs remain..... (He won't ERG, Cummings etc)

However, It looks like the Tory manifesto is going to have more empty spending promises that sound good on paper but will do nothing to reduce income/wealth inequality. Plus the rumoured tax cuts... I'm not going to jump the gun but these are LD adjacent policies
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,962
Swinson looks a bit deer in the headlights at times, I wonder what how she comes across to voters because I can't imagine 5 weeks of that, same for all I suppose. Be interesting to see if she keeps her seat, don't leaders usually do? closest challenger was SNP who won it before her recent win, Swinson won before that too.

Like any politician they'll change their tune after the results so a coalition or confidence and supply like DUP. They just want to be taken seriously as competitor, sure it might balls up the whole thing and gives Tories a win or it may not, who knows.
 
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Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,752
Seriously though, what happens if you have a hung parliament and other parties simply refuse to support each other?
I'm fairly sure that if no-one can become win confidence, parliament just dissolves again automatically and we keep having elections until someone does.
This is outlined (pretty poorly) in the Cabinet Manual (page 21/22 of the PDF). Effectively the procedure is for parties to try to form workable governments (that enjoy confidence of the Commons) until they give up. It doesn't state that a new election is the next step, but it's the only possible step so that'd be what happened.

Two would be pretty delusional on their part...
It would be, yes. It is however consistent with how they are acting and what they're saying, so they may well be that delusional.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,952
Jo Swinson seems to honestly have no idea what she's doing. Even if her plan wasn't obvious to an outside observer how clearly she's telegraphing it is bound to harm her.

At least she saved us all the trouble and confirmed. What a wastewoman of a leader.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,828
There's two possible explanations (and both of them can be true at the same time):

1. Their #1 priority, over and above the results of Brexit (and regardless of how bad those results would be) is to prevent Corbyn becoming PM. In this case, a confidence and supply would be compromising their own policies - specifically the policy that Corbyn shouldn't be PM.

2. Swinson (and presumably also a majority of the senior leadership) genuinely believes that the Lib Dems can form a Lib Dem-led government. In this case, she wouldn't be expecting Lib Dem MPs to vote for a Labour PM - she'd be expecting Labour MPs to vote for her, and she's therefore doing the same thing any major party leader would do before an election (ruling out that party being a junior partner in government).

I suspect it's more the first option than the second.
All three major parties are playing the same kind of game in terms of trying to court two opposed groups of voters who want fundamentally contradictory things.

Labour's Brexit policy is a convoluted way of getting Remain for the sake of trying to keep Leavers on side. The Conservative Brexit policy is to try and simultaneously offer a deal to court moderates and the possibility of no deal to court nutters. The Liberal Democrat Brexit policy is to oppose Brexit to court hardcore remainers while also opposing the most obvious means of preventing Brexit because they want to court those that think Corbyn is the devil incarnate.
 

Gawge

Member
Oct 27, 2017
612
Lib Dems: "Austerity is good, pass a Brexit deal... but all whilst draped in an EU flag"
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,831
Consider: Lib Dems and Swinson aren't incompetent, or pulling some strategy, or doing politics bad

They just have bad opinions
 
Oct 27, 2017
380
You guys seem to want Swinson to win seats of Tories by agreeing with Corbyn...don't think thats the best strategy.

The further right she moves the better chance we have of getting Boris out of number 10, whatever she says about coalition with Corbyn, she'll prop him up if it opens a route to remain, and there's no chance of Boris offering that in any deal.

Frankly she's right to lie about it because the UK media (and electorate) just hasn't got its head around coalition government at all, no one is ready to hear 'yes we will compromise to form a government, but the more seats we win the more power we'll have' even though that's the truth for every party in the election.
 
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