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Brexit |OT3| I'd Rather Be Inert in a Ditch

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KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,566
You guys seem to want Swinson to win seats of Tories by agreeing with Corbyn...don't think thats the best strategy.

The further right she moves the better chance we have of getting Boris out of number 10, whatever she says about coalition with Corbyn, she'll prop him up if it opens a route to remain, and there's no chance of Boris offering that in any deal.
You go too far right and you start losing votes. She didn't have to say any of those things in such a way. There are smarter ways of denying a possible coalition without smashing the door.
 

coconut milk

Banned
Jan 17, 2018
3,102
You guys seem to want Swinson to win seats of Tories by agreeing with Corbyn...don't think thats the best strategy.

The further right she moves the better chance we have of getting Boris out of number 10, whatever she says about coalition with Corbyn, she'll prop him up if it opens a route to remain, and there's no chance of Boris offering that in any deal.
She's spent just as long campaigning for remain as she has convincing people Corbyn is the devil

Who knows what her endgame is....
 

FliXFantatier

Master of the Reality Stone
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,264
Los Angeles
You guys seem to want Swinson to win seats of Tories by agreeing with Corbyn...don't think thats the best strategy.

The further right she moves the better chance we have of getting Boris out of number 10, whatever she says about coalition with Corbyn, she'll prop him up if it opens a route to remain, and there's no chance of Boris offering that in any deal.

Frankly she's right to lie about it because the UK media (and electorate) just hasn't got its head around coalition government at all, no one is ready to hear 'yes we will compromise to form a government, but the more seats we win the more power we'll have' even though that's the truth for every party in the election.
But they are also poisoning labours image in centrist potential labour voters view.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,952
You guys seem to want Swinson to win seats of Tories by agreeing with Corbyn...don't think thats the best strategy.

The further right she moves the better chance we have of getting Boris out of number 10, whatever she says about coalition with Corbyn, she'll prop him up if it opens a route to remain, and there's no chance of Boris offering that in any deal.

Frankly she's right to lie about it because the UK media (and electorate) just hasn't got its head around coalition government at all, no one is ready to hear 'yes we will compromise to form a government, but the more seats we win the more power we'll have' even though that's the truth for every party in the election.
She can do that without poisoning any chance of appealing to Labour voters within the Constituencies to win those seats. Lib dems are currently in free fall within the polls coming out nothing she's saying about partnerships with other parties will help that.
 
Oct 27, 2017
380
I think it's worth remembering that politics is no longer about convincing people you're right, it's about saying what people already think (see the entire BXP vote) so in attacking Labour with shit about the 70s, Swinson is actually targeting Tory voters not Labour ones.
 

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,762
She's spent just as long campaigning for remain as she has convincing people Corbyn is the devil

Who knows what her endgame is....
The LDs Brexit stance is already well established and known.

Campaigning for remain isn't going to achieve anything. No one is going to change their minds on Brexit and everyone already knows where the LDs stand on it. They've effectively been campaigning for remain since the first referendum.

I think it's worth remembering that politics is no longer about convincing people you're right, it's about saying what people already think (see the entire BXP vote) so in attacking Labour with shit about the 70s, Swinson is actually targeting Tory voters not Labour ones.
This is another good point.

If anything she's saying about Corbyn is actually resonating with these supposed centrist labour voters then they probably weren't going to be voting for labour anyway.
 

Streamlined

alt account
Banned
Sep 16, 2019
243
The LDs Brexit stance is already well established and known.

Campaigning for remain isn't going to achieve anything. No one is going to change their minds on Brexit and everyone already knows where the LDs stand on it. They've effectively been campaigning for remain since the first referendum.
Their stance isn’t clear at all. They’ve said they will revoke if they win a majority, but they and everyone else knows they won’t go that, so in that case they support a second referendum. But it’s totally unclear how they think they get there without Labour and Corbyn forming a government.
 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,566
The LDs Brexit stance is already well established and known.
As it is Swinson's stance about Corbyn. There's no gain in doubling down on that right now when the most likely outcome is a hung parliament. It's a stupid statement because it practically makes their stance on Brexit unachievable.
 

CampFreddie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,078
The LD's need a two-pronged strategy if they are going to actually get Tory votes.
Distancing themselves from Corbyn is necessary, but they also need to attack Boris so that they give wavering Tory voters a reason not to vote for him. Wanting to remain in the EU is a good reason, but it won't do by itself.

What I find frustrating is that the LD's are well positioned to attack Boris, by using the typical center-right Tory 'financially and economically responsible' arguments against him. Why are they not doing so?
Boris has a history of expensive failures in profligate public spending to boost his own ego (that London bridge that wasn't built and the Roastmaster busses).
Corbyn can't easily attack Boris for wasteful public spending (Boris: "Ha, the man who wants to nationalise everything from electricity to Fridays wants to criticise our public spending?"), but Jo could.

The LD's need to ridicule Boris and present themselves as the "sensible" option for centrist [mums and] dads. They've spectacularly failed to do this.
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,831
Again, they're not enacting a grand strategy or messing up

As we've been telling you for years, they just have bad opinions
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,631
The Lib Dems can't keep up this messaging for 6 weeks. I don't see any of this working for them
 

Gawge

Member
Oct 27, 2017
612
Lib Dem policy announcements in full:
  • Revoke Article 50
  • Rain thermonuclear fire on some country somewhere
  • Something about leader debates
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,829
I've been listening to this. It's one of the most blatant attempts at whitewashing I've ever seen. Pretty much every member in the house barring the likes of Steve Baker is railing against him and he continues to get up, accuse people of spreading conspiracy theories and generally bullshitting his way through.

The exchange at 13:15 is absolutely breathtaking. A member from DCMS pointed out the government failing to properly investigate the disinformation campaigns pointing out that we know that the american system was effectively attacked in 2016 but the UK government hasn't investigated seriously whether the same happened here. In his response (more whitewashing and bullshitting) he ends by saying: "All I can say is I'm sure the Americans have as robust a system as we do". What the fuck? What a fucking audacious coward.
 
Oct 27, 2017
380
It's pretty easy to work out if you stop assuming remain will win Labour's referendum no?

If you consider Leave might win, then Tory or Labour means we're out within 6 months, embroiled in more EU negotiations for another year (at a minimum).



Fair enough would have made much more sense if Swinson had actually said that rather than what she actually said but it's still not hard to figure out why Lib Dems are revoke first.
 

Timmm

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,848
Manchester, UK
God it would be fucking glorious if after the election the numbers come down in a way where Corbyn can offer to work with the Lib Dems, but only if they have a change of leader as no one can work with Swinson

The banter timeline we all need.
 

GS_Dan

Member
Oct 30, 2017
802
I've been listening to this. It's one of the most blatant attempts at whitewashing I've ever seen. Pretty much every member in the house barring the likes of Steve Baker is railing against him and he continues to get up, accuse people of spreading conspiracy theories and generally bullshitting his way through.

The exchange at 13:15 is absolutely breathtaking. A member from DCMS pointed out the government failing to properly investigate the disinformation campaigns pointing out that we know that the american system was effectively attacked in 2016 but the UK government hasn't investigated seriously whether the same happened here. In his response (more whitewashing and bullshitting) he ends by saying: "All I can say is I'm sure the Americans have as robust a system as we do". What the fuck? What a fucking audacious coward.
Yep, that bit was nuts. Ironically it highlights that the systems are completely fucked.
 

Brotherhood93

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,736
Swinson and the Lib Dems are awful but they're (unintentionally) doing exactly what people have been defending them over, putting off Labour voters and being more appealing to Tories so I'll call that a win for Labour.

In other news, rail strikes over the election period. Can't hurt Corbyn's re-nationalisation campaign.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,829
Yep, that bit was nuts. Ironically it highlights that the systems are completely fucked.
Feels like it should be a pretty major story. British government says that our electoral systems are as robust as US's. It's fucking appalling with either reading: either we're lying about the robustness of the US electoral system out of sheer cowardice or our electoral system is full of holes.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,011
London
God it would be fucking glorious if after the election the numbers come down in a way where Corbyn can offer to work with the Lib Dems, but only if they have a change of leader as no one can work with Swinson

The banter timeline we all need.
Aren't the MPs near enough all anti-Corbyn?
I know the party picked up some of the lost leftier elements under Farron but i didn't think the swing-back reached the top of the party.
 

plagiarize

To its ports I have been
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,421
Cape Cod, MA
Feels like it should be a pretty major story. British government says that our electoral systems are as robust as US's. It's fucking appalling with either reading: either we're lying about the robustness of the US electoral system out of sheer cowardice or our electoral system is full of holes.
It'd just get spun into 'SOMETHING SOMETHING PENCILS! SOMETHING SOMETHING IMMIGRANTS!'
 

Streamlined

alt account
Banned
Sep 16, 2019
243
It's pretty easy to work out if you stop assuming remain will win Labour's referendum no?

If you consider Leave might win, then Tory or Labour means we're out within 6 months, embroiled in more EU negotiations for another year (at a minimum).



Fair enough would have made much more sense if Swinson had actually said that rather than what she actually said but it's still not hard to figure out why Lib Dems are revoke first.
And if the Tories win that Brexit will be Johnson’s deal, whereas if Labour win that will be a far softer Labour deal. Neither will be as good as remain, but let’s not the pretend the Brexit we’re risking with the Tories is the same as the one we’d get from Labour.
Someone should ask Swinson what she thinks should be up against remain in a second referendum.
 
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Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,644
I reckon she's getting some bad advice from Chuka. Who's probably doing it on purpose so he can be leader.
 

solidussnaku

Member
Nov 29, 2017
1,217
The really shocking thing about the lib dems launch is that it shows the gulf between them and labour when it comes to campaigning.

We had corbyn deal with brexit head on today with a speech that has gone down well with even witj media types and delivering a simple, concise message about a second ref that should help them out.

The lib dems instead...did whatever they did today.
 

nature boy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,839
why would any party leader tie themselves to a figure with -50 net favourability?

Having said that, it's pretty stupid to push that idea out so definitively, not sure who's she trying to impress (urgh I do) but killing a potential coalition because you're "candidate for Prime Minister" or "Corbyn will send us to the 70s" is fucking bullocks

Just say "if Labour supports revoking, yes we'll support" or something else that she knows labour can't get to right now

FFS these political "leaders" are so inept.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,172
You guys seem to want Swinson to win seats of Tories by agreeing with Corbyn...don't think thats the best strategy.

The further right she moves the better chance we have of getting Boris out of number 10, whatever she says about coalition with Corbyn, she'll prop him up if it opens a route to remain, and there's no chance of Boris offering that in any deal.

Frankly she's right to lie about it because the UK media (and electorate) just hasn't got its head around coalition government at all, no one is ready to hear 'yes we will compromise to form a government, but the more seats we win the more power we'll have' even though that's the truth for every party in the election.
That’s true - especially the part of the media.

They have to distance themselves from Labour in this instance also.

But yes, once the election is said and done, the tune will (very likely) change.

She does need to be careful with how she communicates this though - could easily backfire.
 
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