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Brexit |OT3| I'd Rather Be Inert in a Ditch

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Zastava

Member
Feb 19, 2018
1,294
London
That’s true - especially the part of the media.

They have to distance themselves from Labour in this instance also.

But yes, once the election is said and done, the tune will (very likely) change.

She does need to be careful with how she communicates this though - could easily backfire.
One could argue this is already backfiring. Quite a few people in this thread who don't rate Corbyn much are annoyed by her hardline, pretty dishonest, stance, and it's the same on twitter. Not the real world I know but I don't think it's entirely meaningless either.
 

Streamlined

alt account
Banned
Sep 16, 2019
243
I think this is probably pretty good news for Labour combined with the current polling trends. Their renegotiate then referendum policy is easily defensible (although they definitely need a good, easily digestible response on how they’ll campaign in the referendum), so they should make good headway in improving the perception of their position and get a boost in polling to go with it.
 

Streamlined

alt account
Banned
Sep 16, 2019
243
Also the SNP one is easy because they know they’ll vote with them if they offer an independence referendum, so there’s no need for a deal.
 

CampFreddie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,078
This is infuriating. If Labour do not win a majority, they will not be able to put their awesome legislative program before parliament because they won't be the government until they do a deal with someone.
Labour should just rule out doing a deal that gives Scotland independence and leave it at that.

One of the problems with an SNP pact is that if independence occurred then the UK parliamentary pact would by definition end. So ruling it out is not going to come back and bite them in the arse because it simply isn't going to be on the table in any confidence/coalition negotiation.

Labour doing a deal with the SNP that gives some sort of Devo-max (remember how that was supposed to happen after the 'close' referendum) seems like the only way we get a functioning left-wing government. Give Holyrood tax-raising powers or something. I suspect that would be a poisoned chalice since the SNP are a mix of old tartan tories and young tartan socialists, so setting tax policy would be hard (disclaimer: I'm pretty ignorant about Scottish politics so maybe they'll be fine at setting a popular tax-policy and show us English a thing or two).
 

Streamlined

alt account
Banned
Sep 16, 2019
243
This is infuriating. If Labour do not win a majority, they will not be able to put their awesome legislative program before parliament because they won't be the government until they do a deal with someone.
Labour should just rule out doing a deal that gives Scotland independence and leave it at that.

One of the problems with an SNP pact is that if independence occurred then the UK parliamentary pact would by definition end. So ruling it out is not going to come back and bite them in the arse because it simply isn't going to be on the table in any confidence/coalition negotiation.

Labour doing a deal with the SNP that gives some sort of Devo-max (remember how that was supposed to happen after the 'close' referendum) seems like the only way we get a functioning left-wing government. Give Holyrood tax-raising powers or something. I suspect that would be a poisoned chalice since the SNP are a mix of old tartan tories and young tartan socialists, so setting tax policy would be hard (disclaimer: I'm pretty ignorant about Scottish politics so maybe they'll be fine at setting a popular tax-policy and show us English a thing or two).
There doesn’t need to be a deal. Labour will just allow a second referendum and the SNP will vote with them.
 
Oct 27, 2017
380
This is infuriating. If Labour do not win a majority, they will not be able to put their awesome legislative program before parliament because they won't be the government until they do a deal with someone.
Labour should just rule out doing a deal that gives Scotland independence and leave it at that.

One of the problems with an SNP pact is that if independence occurred then the UK parliamentary pact would by definition end. So ruling it out is not going to come back and bite them in the arse because it simply isn't going to be on the table in any confidence/coalition negotiation.

Labour doing a deal with the SNP that gives some sort of Devo-max (remember how that was supposed to happen after the 'close' referendum) seems like the only way we get a functioning left-wing government. Give Holyrood tax-raising powers or something. I suspect that would be a poisoned chalice since the SNP are a mix of old tartan tories and young tartan socialists, so setting tax policy would be hard (disclaimer: I'm pretty ignorant about Scottish politics so maybe they'll be fine at setting a popular tax-policy and show us English a thing or two).

Seriously don't believe anything anyone says about coalitions before an election.


The Tories gave £2bn to the DUP to secure their last majority, literally nothing is off the table.
 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,566
This attitude towards coalitions or alliances in British politics is honestly ridiculous. Especially since it seems that not even FPTP is able to stop the need for them now.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,952
This is infuriating. If Labour do not win a majority, they will not be able to put their awesome legislative program before parliament because they won't be the government until they do a deal with someone.
Labour should just rule out doing a deal that gives Scotland independence and leave it at that.

One of the problems with an SNP pact is that if independence occurred then the UK parliamentary pact would by definition end. So ruling it out is not going to come back and bite them in the arse because it simply isn't going to be on the table in any confidence/coalition negotiation.

Labour doing a deal with the SNP that gives some sort of Devo-max (remember how that was supposed to happen after the 'close' referendum) seems like the only way we get a functioning left-wing government. Give Holyrood tax-raising powers or something. I suspect that would be a poisoned chalice since the SNP are a mix of old tartan tories and young tartan socialists, so setting tax policy would be hard (disclaimer: I'm pretty ignorant about Scottish politics so maybe they'll be fine at setting a popular tax-policy and show us English a thing or two).
The SNP has made it explicitly clear their one major goal outside of remaining in the EU is an Scottish independence. Scottish independence doesn't play well to anyone that isn't in scotland so during this election campaign they want nothing to do with the SNP because it's a well worn attack by the conservatives. Labour gains nothing by doing what your suggesting but opens them up to attack in the current hostile news environment.

Even after the election the most that would ever happen is confidence and supply. This is ignoring Sturgeon openly saying the quiet part loud about any deal with Labour.
 

nature boy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,839
Also the SNP one is easy because they know they’ll vote with them if they offer an independence referendum, so there’s no need for a deal.
I don't think it's easy, since:

1 - labour won't approve a referendum in the first years;
2 - there's more to the SNP than straight independence and I would think they would sell their support for a higher price;
 

Randdalf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,593
Nick Clegg managed to keep his seat in 2015, I'd imagine the Conservatives would mount a similar operation to protect Boris.
 

null

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,101

these people are absolute scum.

didn't take long for someone to prove this tweet right

 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,828
I love how you can hear the disgusting idiot heavy breathing his way through the pause and them coming up with what he obviously thinks is quite clever but, presumably, has now realised was disastrously stupid.
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,962
It's amazing seeing people defend JRM comments, how soulless do you have to be, they are so blatantly in cahoots, makes you wonder what else they would defend as they scrape the barrel further.
 

null

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,101
Tories tried to get the civil service to do a costing of Labour's policies (presumably so they could wave it around) but they're having none of it.

 

Streamlined

alt account
Banned
Sep 16, 2019
243
Remember when people said the Tories couldn't possibly run a campaign as bad as May's in 2017? Shit hasn't even started yet.
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,831
Remember when people said the Tories couldn't possibly run a campaign as bad as May's in 2017? Shit hasn't even started yet.
Like, they've not even started yet and they're only second in fuck ups to the lib Dems, which is annoying because I'd much rather be yelling at them for doing stupid shit and being offensive

Speaking of, I'd missed that they tried to defend that tactical voting site in the Guardian

 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,962
Tories tried to get the civil service to do a costing of Labour's policies (presumably so they could wave it around) but they're having none of it.

Funny coming from Javid who doesn't want to cost their own Brexit. Won't Labour come out and tell them eventually anyway or is it so the Tories can fudge their numbers to make it sound better.
 

phisheep

Member
Oct 26, 2017
896
I've been listening to this. It's one of the most blatant attempts at whitewashing I've ever seen. Pretty much every member in the house barring the likes of Steve Baker is railing against him and he continues to get up, accuse people of spreading conspiracy theories and generally bullshitting his way through.

The exchange at 13:15 is absolutely breathtaking. A member from DCMS pointed out the government failing to properly investigate the disinformation campaigns pointing out that we know that the american system was effectively attacked in 2016 but the UK government hasn't investigated seriously whether the same happened here. In his response (more whitewashing and bullshitting) he ends by saying: "All I can say is I'm sure the Americans have as robust a system as we do". What the fuck? What a fucking audacious coward.
Did you notice that in the Minister's response to Emily Thornberry he (accidentally?) referred to Roger Stone - whose trial we all know starts today.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,752
I love how you can hear the disgusting idiot heavy breathing his way through the pause and them coming up with what he obviously thinks is quite clever but, presumably, has now realised was disastrously stupid.
Anybody stupid enough to make that comment isn't clever enough to realise how stupid it is.

Bridgen may apologise, but only if someone can manage to get him to memorise the words of an apology in the correct order.
 

solidussnaku

Member
Nov 29, 2017
1,217
Sweet jesus, tories giving the oppo material to run for days with. That bridgen interview is car crash material, the blocked costings make them look more incompetent and scared then usual, and bojo abandoning the extension vote will just play well for everyone else to stare how shit he is and they is more if a lying cunt then even the average politician. Not a bad thing at all, but the unguarded comments and infighting they are showing so far gives weight to this being a divided team at battle with each other and with everyone else, which isn't sustainable at all in such a pressurised, stressful campaign. The tories are going to crash hard if this is a preview of things to come.

Another telling thing is Corbyn being all over the place becoming viral with his speeches on a daily basis with barely any oppo and Johnson staying on no.10.
 
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kradical

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,813

When even the patron saint of #FBPE centrists says Labour's brexit policy is perfectly straightforward, there's no excuse for beating the "I just don't understand" drum any more.
 

Shevek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
687
Cape Town, South Africa

When even the patron saint of #FBPE centrists says Labour's brexit policy is perfectly straightforward, there's no excuse for beating the "I just don't understand" drum any more.
True, but most of the failing by the general public to understand Labour's position on Brexit has been the result of an intentional campaign by the media to distort and obfuscate their position. Labour will only win at this game by continuing to improve their campaign tactics in the run-up to the election (which so far has been fantastic imo)
 

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
397
One could argue this is already backfiring. Quite a few people in this thread who don't rate Corbyn much are annoyed by her hardline, pretty dishonest, stance, and it's the same on twitter. Not the real world I know but I don't think it's entirely meaningless either.
plural of anecdote isn’t data etc but been pleasantly surprised irl by how remain but corbyn-sceptic ppl i know have reacted negatively towards the lib dems moves so far

labour have done a very poor job buildings trust with remainers no-one can deny that, but ultimately the campaign will be weeks of corbyn calling for a second referendum on the news every single day while boris moans about how disgraceful it is that corbyn is calling for another referendum

the lib dem position where they simply lie that labour is a pro-leave party and lie that they can stop brexit through a referendum without making corbyn pm can’t sustain that constant exposure
 
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