Slam dunk. All the evidence required to show this is Javid simply employing a tactic for the benefit of himself. This decision was all about him and what it will do for his career.
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British schoolgirl that left to join ISIS in 2015 says she has no regrets but wants to return home to the UK
- Thread starter AcademicSaucer
- Start date
Slam dunk. All the evidence required to show this is Javid simply employing a tactic for the benefit of himself. This decision was all about him and what it will do for his career.
So the comparison between her and rapists and murderers is valid then?
The sympathy for White Supremacists was me being facetious, however how else are you supposed to take a "people wouldn't be so kind if she was white" kind of take on it? That's the kind of shit you read on resetera now
She should be charged with whatever crime the government can actually prove she committed. Hence why she should be put through the criminal justice system and treated appropriately. Joining ISIS at 15 and then being wifed out to grown men, is not on the same level of joining ISIS to go kill people on the front lines. Charge her with being a member of a terror group. But acting like what she did is comparable to what ISIS fighters do is nonsense.
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Well well well. Now what?
Drop her on Christmas island or actually do what they are paid to do and make the right decision no matter how much the population doesn't like it.
I'm with the government on this. She only wants to come back because IS lost, not because she feels remorse.
Why do you think that? Genuinely asking.
Ah, yeah, that makes sense.
If she gets caught by Iraqi forces or the Kurds she may get executed or put in prison for life.
You know the guy who got stuck in an airport and the movie Terminal was based on? Basically whichever country she is with right now will be the one handling her food drink and imprisonment.
Nah that post (the one I was replying to) was a dig at the recent events where Canada took in two women escaping harm from a bunch of fucking nutters. Fuck that post.
To allow the child to be born British. Imagine the shitstorm if they in turn made that child born stateless as well. Which begs the question, if the child is acknowledged by these idiots as being British, then what are they providing to insure said British citizen is brought home safe?
Let me put it this way: Nobody's calling for putting that asshat kid who was at the DC Rally to be put in jail
That wasn't my original point, but you've concinced me. Yeah, it is if you go over there to enable murderers you should be comparable to them.
What is your actual point, here? Are you trying to persuade me to have sympathy for her? It's never going to happen. I understand, but I don't have sympathy.
But I absolutely think she should be allowed back, as long as there's no risk or effort in doing so. And her welfare or reintegration should be a quarternary concern at best after that of public, her child and the exploitation of the information she can provide.
User Banned (1 Day): Inflammatory accusations towards another member
I'm not trying to persuade you to have sympathy, that's clearly not the way your brain works - but when i pointed out that you are prejudiced, you disagreed. I was just pointing out how you were, which you now acknowledge.
The take is that you're being overly sympathetic as a knee jerk reaction against the idea that right wing islamophobes wouldn't want her back. You're applying an assumption of reduced responsibility to her that you wouldn't apply to others who would have made comparable decisions. I've got zero sympathy for an unrepentant ISIS member and sympathiser just as I would have absolutely zero sympathy if she was a 19 year old member of a white supremacist terrorist organisation.
Nobody has to have any more sympathy for Shamima Begum than they would have for Dylann Roof.
Prejudice is a heavy word for what you're describing, chap. I'm basing my opinion on an individual's behaviour. Act like a criminal, my opinion will align with that. What you're accusing me of is something much more than that, which is quite frankly bullshit.
Ok, but you said other people wouldn't. I absolutely would have sympathy for someone who was groomed into white supremacy from childhood and was only 19
Before you say I wouldn't: I am half German, my grandparents were literally brainwashed as children to be white supremacists, and likely would have had horrendous views as young adults. Fortunately it was possible to reform them and they are now normal functioning members of society.
19 is very young. People are redeemable. Every effort should be made to make sure Begum is, and as she is British, it is our responsibility.
The real unfortunate thing for her ofcourse is that all she had to do was look at the camera and cry. She was a pregnant 19 year old groomed as a child. She could have blagged anything.
But instead she felt the need to brag about the decapitated heads she's seen and state rather firmly that she regrets only that they lost. Her interviews should be titled How to incriminate yourself - 101.
I may have been unclear last page on that so I apoligise. The Iraqis will execute her. The fact that she's foreign is basically the death sentence. They've been pretty relentless in their punishments.
The Kurds have been known to secretly execute surrendering ISIS soldiers if they can get away with it but they generally won't touch the brides.
But instead she felt the need to brag about the decapitated heads she's seen and state rather firmly that she regrets only that they lost. Her interviews should be titled How to incriminate yourself - 101.
I may have been unclear last page on that so I apoligise. The Iraqis will execute her. The fact that she's foreign is basically the death sentence. They've been pretty relentless in their punishments.
The Kurds have been known to secretly execute surrendering ISIS soldiers if they can get away with it but they generally won't touch the brides.
I'm tempted to feel bad for this girl, but at some point even if you are a kid you should probably know that it's not acceptable to enslave, rape and murder people, devastate their country with war, steal their homes etc. Even if she wasnt one of the foreign ISIS brides who reportedly were part of brigades to torture and enslave local women... even if some how she was sheltered and ignorant of all the horrors, as soon as she has access to the modern world and information she should of fucking learned about what went on and then had the humanity to realize "holy fuck, I was a part of something truly horrific and I am forever sorry and ashamed" hell at least have the intelligence to lie about it and pretend you aren't a monster.
But just "oh let me stroll back, ISIS is still great and all but I wanna be home now..." fuuuuuuuck. you. Go get fucked. At most these people should get a ticket straight to prison.
But just "oh let me stroll back, ISIS is still great and all but I wanna be home now..." fuuuuuuuck. you. Go get fucked. At most these people should get a ticket straight to prison.
I didn't get an answer earlier. So where is she going to end up? I had read that Britain can take away a passport if the person isn't left State-less. What other countries is she valid for?
What all stateless people go, places that don't care about passports.
She apparently wants to try to go to the Netherlands as her "husband" (married under ISIS rule, so no chance in hell that marriage will be legally recognized) is Dutch.
Yeah people who can't even pretend to feel remorse (or confused forgodsake) publicly will never be able to live with different opinions of other people, or the social value of her adopted country. Citizenship is a social contract between the citizen and the state. It's not a one way street. Why should UK spend any more tax payer money to keep her in prison for (lets be realistic, 15 year tops?) and however many years to help her after she is released.
Thanks. So it sound like she doesn't have a state, but it's illegal to make someone stateless, and Britain is taking her passport. That doesn't add up.
Home Secretary Theresa May has said that the UK will not remove citizenship from IS fighters born in the UK as "it is illegal for any country to make its citizens stateless". But the UK government does have the power to remove citizenship from people either naturalised in the UK or those with dual citizenship if it believes their activities to be "seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the UK". The law says that the Home Secretary should have a "reasonable belief" that those being stripped of their nationality will not become stateless.
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-30079580
Her husband needs to be looked into but I'm sure that won't happen with the current state that Europe is in.
In other news I'm glad the UK revoked her citizenship. Hopefully it delivers a message to would be terrorists and their pathetic sympathizers.
Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly (English isn't my native language), but I think you can actually make someone stateless under some circumstances, and IMO it sounds like she fits the bill. From Article 8 of the Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness: https://www.unhcr.org/protection/statelessness/3bbb286d8/convention-reduction-statelessness.html
I'd say joining and supporting ISIS in any way, shape or form is quite harmful to the vital interests of the UK
He already got sentenced past summer to a MASSIVE 6 YEARS in prison.
Deem unacceptable seems like a very tame way of describing someone joining an illegal terrorist organisation.
The word gets thrown around so much that it loses meaning, but becoming a literal enemy combatant is textbook treason, and certainly grounds for removing citizenship.
Good find. Unless she personally committed terror acts against the UK, that seems a bit extreme to use that to make her stateless.
It's a fight javid will love to have just like Tories loved having b.s EU arguments even before brexit.
This stuff is catnip domestically to their base.
What state is that?
You also should google basic information before making such ridiculous posts.
Because that's what we do to all *our* criminals, even those part of terror groups, both Islamists and right wing. I'd say we have far worse, rapists and murderers in our prisons, she's a problem we need to resolve. She's not the Kurds or Bangladesh's problem.
Well, not many people were saying he should be deradicalised and re-educated either, were they?
Anyway, this case is complex and obviously there's more at play here than that example - it doesn't really work to compare the two as equals.
I don't know - I don't want her back here but I hope her child gets the opportunity for a decent life.
Do you really do that to UK citizens that commit crimes in a different country?
If they are deported from a foreign country, yes, they would still be investigated for thier crimes and serve thier sentence here, or if already sentenced in another country, there have been cases where they were deported back to us to serve thier time.
Were people who joined Al-Qaida who were nationals of Western countries charged with treason or terrorism related crimes?
Facts don't = reality. You are right that ISISS kills muslims predominantly, but I doubt its propaganda talks about doing that.
You'd be very wrong on that.
ISIS propaganda has always talked about "Apostates", that being Muslims not affiliated with them. Their propaganda magazines have called for the murder of all non-ISIS Muslims including those sympathetic towards them since 2014.
https://institute.global/insight/co-existence/latest-isis-propaganda-rails-against-apostasy
https://www.counterextremism.com/content/isiss-persecution-religions
They brag about their sex slavery and ethnic cleansing of Yazidis. Their doctrine is very litteraly to kill and rape anyone who isn't part of their organisation. They are not compatible to Al-Queda or any other terrorist group, these are proud psychopaths.
I've come to lose all respect for this country. How can they think it is alright to revoke the citizenship of someone that was born here? Someone without dual nationality too.
The reality is that if she had two British descending parents, this wouldn't be a considered option. They've created a two tier system.
You'd think we were a third world country with the way the Home Secretary has acted. These are fundamental human rights that this government is giving a middle finger to.
The reality is that if she had two British descending parents, this wouldn't be a considered option. They've created a two tier system.
You'd think we were a third world country with the way the Home Secretary has acted. These are fundamental human rights that this government is giving a middle finger to.
Poor choice of words but it was to drive home that the government go do it to anybody they felt like and find ways to justify it.
This whole story is nothing to do with the girl. It's too do with government and what they are (or think they are) allowed to do.
Just because the government don't like someone they can't just strip them of their rights based on a few journalist interviews.
This person has had their fundamental rights as a human being taken away by the UK government without trial, without conviction of any crime.
My point is, forget the terrorism aspect of it and think about that in isolation. This is a dangerous game the UK government are playing.
If she has committed crimes or is a risk to society then you process as normal in the UK if she returns. This is not an issue for the public opinion jury.
Really, my point is about the Government actions than any response to what this girl has said.
Just because the government don't like someone they can't just strip them of their rights based on a few journalist interviews.
This person has had their fundamental rights as a human being taken away by the UK government without trial, without conviction of any crime.
My point is, forget the terrorism aspect of it and think about that in isolation. This is a dangerous game the UK government are playing.
If she has committed crimes or is a risk to society then you process as normal in the UK if she returns. This is not an issue for the public opinion jury.
Really, my point is about the Government actions than any response to what this girl has said.