British schoolgirl that left to join ISIS in 2015 says she has no regrets but wants to return home to the UK

butzopower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
935
London
Where do you think the stolen passports they used to board flights as unaccompanied 15 year olds came from?

Where do you think the idea that ANY of this could ever have been a good idea came from?

You think she was just naturally predisposed to supporting something like IS?

She was obviously radicalised by something or someone and those people gave her the means to then travel on some other person's passport and join them.
By revoking her citizenship I feel like the UK tries to absolve itself of this kind of radicalization happening on their soil. I feel like she should remain the UK’s problem not just in who’s responsible in helping de-radicalizing her, but in making sure less of it happens in the first place.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,025
Gentrified Brooklyn
I'm just asking for source on when was Begum groomed. You're not providing any source, just your typical claim.
So lets do a deep hard dive in hard to find sources like, Wikipedia:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethnal_Green_trio

On 17 February 2015, Abase, Begum and Sultana flew via Turkish Airlines from Gatwick Airport in West Sussex to Istanbul.[5] Their families went to Turkey in March to probe the disappearance, deeming the police investigation inadequate.[5][6]

Their disappearance has been attributed to Aqsa Mahmood, a woman from Glasgow who joined ISIL in 2013. There have been electronic communications between the girls and Mahmood.[5]
Who is Aqsa Mahmood? Another hard to find source called CNN

https://www.cnn.com/2015/02/23/world/scottish-teen-isis-recruiter/index.html

As a reward for allegiance, ISIS loyalists receive gifts from Allah including "a house with free electricity and water provided to you due to the Khilafah (the caliphate or state) and no rent included."
"Sounds great right?" she writes.
Even better, followers should be get ready for "an even BIGGER reward in the Aakhirah (afterlife)."
Leaving family will be hard, she warns.
"The family you get in exchange for leaving the ones behind are like the pearl in comparison to the Shell you threw away into the foam of the sea," another post reads.
The "first phone call you make once you cross the borders is one of the most difficult things you will ever have to do. Your parents are already worried enough over where you are," she writes. "... However when you hear them sob and beg like crazy on the phone for you to come back it's so hard. ... I can never do justice to how cold hearted you feel.
I dunno, reads like grooming propaganda to me. If your next move is you want specific examples of communication, I dunno. I don't have Begum's phone number to ask her to forward me over her texts.

This argument line of 'GIVE ME HARD PROOF" is also a case of moving the goalposts because even if the motherfucker decided she wanted to go join ISIS she was fucking FIFTEEN at the time. Going back to the grooming part they specifically tell you early on that ISIS is misportrayed in the press and if you've got motherfuckers out there thinking vaccines kill you and the earth is flat, not sure why its hard to believe that a 15 year old might make a terrible decision based on false information fed to her. SURE, she could be a born psychopath, but that's such an low number of the population that the odds are unlikely.

I just feel your argument is a disingenuous one and if nots, I apologize.

While I understand how FUCKED up ISIS is I feel that the absolute hard stance taken against a young woman has to do with the many factors at play (POC, female, muslim) when I can pop into many major news sources on the entirety of the political spectrum begging me as a POC to find the humanity in a young white male nazi, lol. Fuck outta here.
 
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krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,025
Gentrified Brooklyn
She explicitly stated that watching beheadings was one of her leading interests into joining so yes, going by her words which is all we have, she watched those of her own choice, decided she liked them of her own choice and wasn't initiating contact until after she already had taken an interest in terrorism.

I mean the last bit is literally just saying, well she probably didn't kill anyone. But we have no proof of that one way or another, but we DO know she enjoyed those killings and feels they were justified so at best, she never got handed the axe, at best. Because it's clear from her own words had she been handed it she'd swing it all too happily.
The odds of her being a psycopath that enjoys killings and decided to take a killing vacay in Isisworld vs someone who was indoctrinated in a cult def. favor the cult side.

Also her continuously sprouting ISIS propaganda can mean that yes, she's a psycopath. Or like we've been saying, she's just fucking brainwashed.

https://wgntv.com/2019/03/07/r-kellys-girlfriends-come-to-his-defense-in-cbs-interview/
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,736
Sure I don't disagree, all I'm saying is it goes a bit deeper than just abuse victim. That doesn't mean that she wasn't or lessen it of course, but to simplify it down to abuse victim alone is reductive. She was an abuse victim after she decided terrorism was something she can take pleasure in before having an influencer. Sure we can hope to program it out of her in the same way it was additionally programmed into her, but it's more of an uphill road when the person was on that path of their own choice initially rather than lead into, then developed an interest. There's less familiar ground to find.

I never said anything about it invalidating your post anywhere in mine though. An arguement for sure could be made about how she initially started watching these sorts of things, but without a lot more insight it's hard to say whether she was lead there too, but her own wording implies she found her way there.
The fact that she found her way there so that she could be abused is what makes this grooming. I swear none of you understand what that term means, it's when vulnerable people are coerced and convinced to do things they can't consent to by someone with more power and authority. As a 15 year old, she is unable to A) consent to sex with adults and B) make the decision to leave the country on her own.

The fact that she was able to do those things is a failure of society and her parents to protect her. The fact that she was able to freely watch ISIS beheading videos and then get into contact with them is a failure of society and her parents to protect her.
I get what you're saying but I feel like you are also making a lot of assumptions and placing them on her. We don't know the extent of things that happened to her or what she also did over there.
It's not an assumption that she was raped repeatedly, it's not an assumption that her baby died due to the conditions she was left in. Nobody knows exactly what happened except for her and the people that abused her, but she's not the only ISIS bride to come back and it's pretty clear based on numerous accounts that these women are married off to multiple men and used as sex slaves.
Lots of talks about grooming. Was she groomed before she left? I thought she wasn't. Also, if she wasn't, then how do you know she was groomed afterwards?

If she left with a certain state of mind/thought, that ISIS was good, maybe she didn't need much or any grooming at all. How do you even measure or prove that?
Do some fucking research before you go spouting off this crap. 15 year olds can't just up and leave Britain under their parents noses without assistance. She was in contact with ISIS for a while before leaving. She's not the only teenage girl who has been coerced into joining them, ISIS has done this many, many times and it always plays out the same.
 

Dyno

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,888
The fact that she found her way there so that she could be abused is what makes this grooming. I swear none of you understand what that term means, it's when vulnerable people are coerced and convinced to do things they can't consent to by someone with more power and authority. As a 15 year old, she is unable to A) consent to sex with adults and B) make the decision to leave the country on her own.

The fact that she was able to do those things is a failure of society and her parents to protect her. The fact that she was able to freely watch ISIS beheading videos and then get into contact with them is a failure of society and her parents to protect her.
Again I'm not arguing that she wasn't groomed. What I'm saying is she had taken steps of her own accord too prior to contact. Neither of these statements are at odds with each other and not all people groomed into terrorism start the path themselves.

Now that second paragraph is getting a lot closer to where the issue lies IMO, but personally I think even to pin it on society is short sighted tbh. We know how she got to see these sorts of things and it wasn't society, it was companies like Youtube etc having no obligation to moderate their shit and having beheadings, lynchings and all sorts as perfectly fine content on their platform. Hell only a couple years ago YT alone not just hosted the content but the algorithms would work in favor of this type of content. Society at large was never ok with this being the situation.

Now thankfully this has been addressed to some extent and most sites that had hosted this in the past have made it harder to hide that sort of content on there and find, but people like this girl would be the effects of those times IMO. Of course would have people join with or without sites propping it up, but it's hard to ignore the drop off of support from overseas and how it lines up.
 

Hodgy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,432
UK
Agree to disagree. Not every choice people make is about race. The focus here is about a terrorist organization, not about how brown she looks, how she dresses or who she believes in. Sure, there will be people wanting her punished because they are racist, but not everyone is like that.

What if an arab muslim on this forum agrees that she should be jailed or exiled? Let me guess, sexist?

What if a female arab muslim agrees that she should be jailed or exiled? What will be the excuse then?
if this were a white christian that left the UK to join Isis. would hes citizenship have been stripped?
The answer is probably no.
That is why people are seeing the action of having her citizenship stripped as a racist action.
no one is arguing against her being jailed, they are arguing against punishment being taken against her without a trail.
 

Puroresu_kid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,606
if this were a white christian that left the UK to join Isis. would hes citizenship have been stripped?
The answer is probably no.
That is why people are seeing the action of having her citizenship stripped as a racist action.
no one is arguing against her being jailed, they are arguing against punishment being taken against her without a trail.
There is a white guy 'jihadi jack' and as far as I know he hasn't had his citizenship stripped.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,170
if this were a white christian that left the UK to join Isis. would hes citizenship have been stripped?
The answer is probably no.
That is why people are seeing the action of having her citizenship stripped as a racist action.
no one is arguing against her being jailed, they are arguing against punishment being taken against her without a trail.
It's racist because of a thing everyone imagines might happen. Ok.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,265
I mean of course she was groomed to join ISIS. But I find it hard to muster any sympathy for someone that after all she's seen still doesn't feel a little remorse. There are two things to unpack here. One the crimes that were done to her, and the crimes against humanity she supported and feels were justified.
She is a despicable person, devoid of any empathy or capability of remorse. But to revoke her citizenship is a clearly populistic move born out of racism.

If it were up to me I'd let her rot there, but that's why we have laws. So that personal vindictiveness doesn't decide the fate of someone.
 

Fushichou187

Member
Nov 1, 2017
526
San Francisco
There is a white guy 'jihadi jack' and as far as I know he hasn't had his citizenship stripped.
He hasn’t yet. He’s still in prison— not simply a refugee camp— in Kurdish controlled territory though. His nationality situation is a bit different as well since he technically has Canadian nationality through his Canadian-born father. Doesn’t excuse the lack of equity of treatment between him and Beggum however. If the UK wants to revoke citizenship for those that join IS, they should apply it equally.
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,886
If Begum were a white 15 year old girl there would be zero questioning over whether or not she had been groomed. She'd be getting sympathy interviews and a gofundme from the Express.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,736
Again I'm not arguing that she wasn't groomed. What I'm saying is she had taken steps of her own accord too prior to contact. Neither of these statements are at odds with each other and not all people groomed into terrorism start the path themselves.

Now that second paragraph is getting a lot closer to where the issue lies IMO, but personally I think even to pin it on society is short sighted tbh. We know how she got to see these sorts of things and it wasn't society, it was companies like Youtube etc having no obligation to moderate their shit and having beheadings, lynchings and all sorts as perfectly fine content on their platform. Hell only a couple years ago YT alone not just hosted the content but the algorithms would work in favor of this type of content. Society at large was never ok with this being the situation.

Now thankfully this has been addressed to some extent and most sites that had hosted this in the past have made it harder to hide that sort of content on there and find, but people like this girl would be the effects of those times IMO. Of course would have people join with or without sites propping it up, but it's hard to ignore the drop off of support from overseas and how it lines up.
You realize you are blaming a 15 year old because got in contact with a dangerous group of people who then coerced her into joining them so they could exploit her. That is essentially victim blaming.

'Taken steps' is literally contacting them as a minor and being exposed to their propaganda as a minor. That's not a crime on her part, but it is a failure of society and her family to protect her.

Society absolutely bears blame in this. A 15 year old British citizen was contacted, coerced, and then given assistance to leave the country for the purpose of being exploited. That includes platforms where the information was disseminated, her parents who were not involved enough to know what was going on and did not protect her, and the government who has a duty to protect its citizens, especially minors. Everyone failed her, and she is the one paying the price.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,736
If Begum were a white 15 year old girl there would be zero questioning over whether or not she had been groomed. She'd be getting sympathy interviews and a gofundme from the Express.
Absolutely. This is an obvious case of grooming and abuse, but because she's Muslim and not white then she gets demonized.
 

Hodgy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,432
UK

Dyno

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,888
You realize you are blaming a 15 year old because got in contact with a dangerous group of people who then coerced her into joining them so they could exploit her. That is essentially victim blaming.

'Taken steps' is literally contacting them as a minor and being exposed to their propaganda as a minor. That's not a crime on her part, but it is a failure of society and her family to protect her.

Society absolutely bears blame in this. A 15 year old British citizen was contacted, coerced, and then given assistance to leave the country for the purpose of being exploited. That includes platforms where the information was disseminated, her parents who were not involved enough to know what was going on and did not protect her, and the government who has a duty to protect its citizens, especially minors. Everyone failed her, and she is the one paying the price.
This victim was complicit in there being further victims put to death. Being a victim also doesn't absolve her of any responsibility whatsoever, something you'd also said yourself previously. This isn't just a case of someone who was solely a victim, she may have had many victims herself or was at least complicit. Now should she have her citizenship revoked? No. Is she a victim? Yes. But that alone doesn't mean that she bares no blame at all in any actions she took part in with ISIL.

I think there's a wire getting crossed somewhere because all I'm trying to explain with the link to her enjoying beheadings as a teenager is there's more groundwork to put in, because that alone is something that would be out of the ordinary and needed to be addressed long before any brainwashing. That it's going to be an uphill battle getting back to the root of where it started and trying to remove her desire for death when it predates any grooming. I think we agree that she shouldn't have her citizenship revoked and should be given the same process as other ISIL members who left were.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,802
This victim was complicit in there being further victims put to death. Being a victim also doesn't absolve her of any responsibility whatsoever, something you'd also said yourself previously. This isn't just a case of someone who was solely a victim, she may have had many victims herself or was at least complicit. Now should she have her citizenship revoked? No. Is she a victim? Yes. But that alone doesn't mean that she bares no blame at all in any actions she took part in with ISIL.

I think there's a wire getting crossed somewhere because all I'm trying to explain with the link to her enjoying beheadings as a teenager is there's more groundwork to put in, because that alone is something that would be out of the ordinary and needed to be addressed long before any brainwashing. That it's going to be an uphill battle getting back to the root of where it started and trying to remove her desire for death when it predates any grooming. I think we agree that she shouldn't have her citizenship revoked and should be given the same process as other ISIL members who left were.
Literally nothing that person wrote suggests they think she's entirely free of blame.
 

GrizzleBoy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,938
If Begum were a white 15 year old girl there would be zero questioning over whether or not she had been groomed. She'd be getting sympathy interviews and a gofundme from the Express.
It's okay for an underage British girl to be groomed by verified grooming gangs, be coaxed away from her home, be failed by law enforcement (I.e three kids with other people passports getting planes to known warzones no problem), be raped (by the letter of the law), if they're the right kind of underage British girl.
 

Hodgy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,432
UK
This victim was complicit in there being further victims put to death. Being a victim also doesn't absolve her of any responsibility whatsoever, something you'd also said yourself previously. This isn't just a case of someone who was solely a victim, she may have had many victims herself or was at least complicit. Now should she have her citizenship revoked? No. Is she a victim? Yes. But that alone doesn't mean that she bares no blame at all in any actions she took part in with ISIL.

I think there's a wire getting crossed somewhere because all I'm trying to explain with the link to her enjoying beheadings as a teenager is there's more groundwork to put in, because that alone is something that would be out of the ordinary and needed to be addressed long before any brainwashing. That it's going to be an uphill battle getting back to the root of where it started and trying to remove her desire for death when it predates any grooming. I think we agree that she shouldn't have her citizenship revoked and should be given the same process as other ISIL members who left were.

Why does this strawman keep rearing its head.

NO ONE here is saying she is free from blame.

We are saying that she should be returned to the UK to be put towards a judge and jury in a trail so she can be correctly punished.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,736
This victim was complicit in there being further victims put to death. Being a victim also doesn't absolve her of any responsibility whatsoever, something you'd also said yourself previously. This isn't just a case of someone who was solely a victim, she may have had many victims herself or was at least complicit. Now should she have her citizenship revoked? No. Is she a victim? Yes. But that alone doesn't mean that she bares no blame at all in any actions she took part in with ISIL.

I think there's a wire getting crossed somewhere because all I'm trying to explain with the link to her enjoying beheadings as a teenager is there's more groundwork to put in, because that alone is something that would be out of the ordinary and needed to be addressed long before any brainwashing. That it's going to be an uphill battle getting back to the root of where it started and trying to remove her desire for death when it predates any grooming. I think we agree that she shouldn't have her citizenship revoked and should be given the same process as other ISIL members who left were.
The actions she took part in with ISIS was being raped. She needs to go through deradicalization and given mental health treatment for her trauma, where she can be evaluated for both her own safety and the safety of others. I never said she shares no blame, but when figuring out how to handle her situation it is necessary to take into account the circumstances under which she joined ISIS. She has suffered enough, she's gone through more trauma and suffering than most people will ever experience in their lives, and shes already been failed by British society once. All I'm suggesting is that Britain take responsibility, acknowledge they failed her originally, and attempt to rectify that failure in a manner that is humane. Revoking her citizenship is about as far from that as you can get, it's the government refusing to take responsibility for their own failure and violates the human rights of an abuse victim to appease the blood lust of the masses. That is despicable.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,170
except you know, its happened, as other posters have already said.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/jihadi-jack-isis-uk-syria-nationality-letts-shamima-begum-a8792956.html

remember this is the government that did the windrush scandal...
There is absolutely nothing in that article that says this guy hasn't been or won't be stripped of his citizenship as well, and he is quoted himself as saying that he doesn't see himself being allowed back in the UK:

“If the UK accepted me then I’d go back to the UK, it’s my home. But I don’t think that’s going to happen,” he said. “No one really cares.”
 

Dyno

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,888
Literally nothing that person wrote suggests they think she's entirely free of blame.
Why does this strawman keep rearing its head.

NO ONE here is saying she is free from blame.

We are saying that she should be returned to the UK to be put towards a judge and jury in a trail so she can be correctly punished.
Then why did the poster accuse me of victim blaming for agreeing with you all on this point? That's why I said I think theres a crossed wire, because from what I can tell we agree that she should be returned and taken to trial.
 

emesve

Member
Oct 25, 2017
508
You know the UK Home Secretary is a Muslim of Pakistani descent right?
It's interesting that you see this as some sort of counter argument. I mean, it's the same argument that the other poster made to which I already responded. You're using the mere fact that this person is Muslim and Pakistani as an argument that they can't be racist themselves? What's your next argument, the Home Secretary has Pakistani Muslim friends?

This is a policy that only affects people with dual nationality (whether they want it or not, I don't imagine the girl in this topic having had an option), and it allows for the entire judicial process to be circumvented - so by default it's either xenophobia and/or racism.

The power shouldn't be in their hands. It shouldn't be an option. You're treating dual nationality citizens as second class.
 

Adonis

Alt-Account
Banned
Jan 27, 2019
42
Why does this strawman keep rearing its head.

NO ONE here is saying she is free from blame.

We are saying that she should be returned to the UK to be put towards a judge and jury in a trail so she can be correctly punished.
But here's the thing , has she actually committed a crime ?

I don't think she has , which is why most people are on edge because they know she can just walk free on the streets if she came back to the UK. Her ideology is a severe risk to British society and that's what they want to keep out.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,736
Then why did the poster accuse me of victim blaming for agreeing with you all on this point? That's why I said I think theres a crossed wire, because from what I can tell we agree that she should be returned and taken to trial.
Because your response to 'she was groomed' is that she played a role in her own abuse. No shit, that's what grooming is, that's what makes it different from an abduction. There is no reason to keep bringing that up.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,736
But here's the thing , has she actually committed a crime ?

I don't think she has , which is why most people are on edge because they know she can just walk free on the streets if she came back to the UK. Her ideology is a severe risk to British society and that's what they want to keep out.
Lots of ideology is a severe risk to British society, like Brexit. Would you advocate that anyone who supported Brexit should have their citizenship revoked?

All you are you are saying here is that people are afraid of what she represents. Fine, but revoking citizenship of someone who hasn't even committed a crime is not an acceptable response to fear, especially when that fear is clearly motivated by racism and Islamophobia. Britain has deradicalization programs, use them.
 

Hodgy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,432
UK
But here's the thing , has she actually committed a crime ?

I don't think she has , which is why most people are on edge because they know she can just walk free on the streets if she came back to the UK. Her ideology is a severe risk to British society and that's what they want to keep out.
and thats something for the courts to decide. not the public.

There is absolutely nothing in that article that says this guy hasn't been or won't be stripped of his citizenship as well, and he is quoted himself as saying that he doesn't see himself being allowed back in the UK:
well as of right now he does. so why the inconsistency?
 

KillGore

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
426
Puerto Rico
User banned (3 days) Inflammatory generalizations over series of posts
Let's be honest here guys, even if the courts find her guilty, you guys will always cry foul. You won't be satisfied until she is walking feely down the streets of the UK.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,802
Let's be honest here guys, even if the courts find her guilty, you guys will always cry foul. You won't be satisfied until she is walking feely down the streets of the UK.
What are you even doing? No one is coming close to this, and the fact you posted it proves beyond any doubt you have no interest in an honest discussion here.

Absurd.
 

Mewn

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,674
UK
Let's be honest here guys, even if the courts find her guilty, you guys will always cry foul. You won't be satisfied until she is walking feely down the streets of the UK.
Personally I'm not going to settle for any less than a week of national holiday upon her return, plus a great parade outside Buckingham Palace and an annual celebration.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,736
Let's be honest here guys, even if the courts find her guilty, you guys will always cry foul. You won't be satisfied until she is walking feely down the streets of the UK.
Are you trying to make people feel bad for having empathy for a teenage abuse victim? It's not going to work, and says way more about you than it does those who disagree with you.
 

Dyno

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,888
Because your response to 'she was groomed' is that she played a role in her own abuse. No shit, that's what grooming is, that's what makes it different from an abduction. There is no reason to keep bringing that up.
Right we may as well just admit were gonna get nowhere here. I said I think we have a crossed wire because we fundamentally agree..I think the crossed wire is that she could easily face no punishment if she doesn't confess and that I'd wrongly assumed that you were ok with that outcome, whereas I'd personally feel she deserves some jail time solely for aiding terrorists.

But at this point you've just admitted you made a baseless accusation at me and then attempted to justify it so I don't really see us making any progress.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,736
Right we may as well just admit were gonna get nowhere here. I said I think we have a crossed wire because we fundamentally agree..I think the crossed wire is that she could easily face no punishment if she doesn't confess and that I'd wrongly assumed that you were ok with that outcome, whereas I'd personally feel she deserves some jail time solely for aiding terrorists.

But at this point you've just admitted you made a baseless accusation at me and then attempted to justify it so I don't really see us making any progress.
There is no reason to repeatedly bring up the obvious fact that grooming requires she had to take steps to join ISIS unless you are trying to undermine the degree to which she was abused. If you aren't attempting to victim blame her, then stop doing it.

She should be placed into a deradicalization program. If there is no evidence of her committing a crime then she should not be imprisoned. That's not a controversial statement, you can't just imprison people because you don't like their ideology in the absence of a crime.
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,980
Let's be honest here guys, even if the courts find her guilty, you guys will always cry foul. You won't be satisfied until she is walking feely down the streets of the UK.
Try being honest with yourself sometime, but I know that's hard so I'll help you...

Let me be honest here guys, I don't care that she was groomed at a young age, I don't care that she was raped, I don't care that her baby is dead, I just won't be happy until she's dead.
 

Puroresu_kid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,606
But here's the thing , has she actually committed a crime ?

I don't think she has , which is why most people are on edge because they know she can just walk free on the streets if she came back to the UK. Her ideology is a severe risk to British society and that's what they want to keep out.
Surely you cannot supporting revoking ones UK status while questioning whether she has actually committed a crime.

If she has she still shouldn't have had her citizenship revoked but if she hasn't well it makes it even more outrageous.
 

Dyno

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,888
There is no reason to repeatedly bring up the obvious fact that grooming requires she had to take steps to join ISIS unless you are trying to undermine the degree to which she was abused. If you aren't attempting to victim blame her, then stop doing it.

She should be placed into a deradicalization program. If there is no evidence of her committing a crime then she should not be imprisoned. That's not a controversial statement, you can't just imprison people because you don't like their ideology in the absence of a crime.
And this is where our wires were crossed then. She definitely needs to be deradicalized for sure but I do think that joining a terrorist organisation should have repercussions in and of itself that include jail. I mean people get jail for significantly less. It goes beyond ideology IMO when the group you are a part of is a terrorist faction responsible for countless deaths.

But that doesn't mean I think we should just jail her and forget either. Realistically that's probably more dangerous as she could radicalize others in prison. Or that she wasn't a victim in any sense. Just that personally I think joining ISIL should be grounds for charging with aiding a terrorist faction in itself.

I guess that's the root of where we disagree.